Co worker DWI

[Arky]

I've heard a lot of stories of [bs] probable cause stops & improperly maintained machines. But hey, my 3 closest friends are lawyers.

I don't condone drunk driving but I know if ever in court on any charge; I want a fair & impartial jury as well as court advocates.

[Travis In Austin]

How about Nevada?

BTW, how many hours do you spend on a typical DUI trial? I am impressed. It seems that everything is a plea bargain here.

Everything is plea bargined there because you have not right to a jury trial for a misdemeanor in Nevada. In Texas we have the right to a jury trial for anything, speeding, running a red light, anything,

A non breath test case usually takes 1 day, depending on judge, and a breath test case takes 1 to 2 days depending on the court. Some don't start picking a jury until 1:30, others are ready to go right a 9:00 a.m with 30 mins of voir dire per side (we get to do all VD here), and we go. I estimate that I spend 3 hours of prep time for every hour in court, so the typical time spent on a DWI here is 60 to 70 hours. For me at least, but I don't like to lose, so I do everything I can. Go to scene personally, get all records, have a contested pretrial hearing, request contested license suspension hearing, etc., etc. Most attorneys don't do all of that.

When I was practicing in Las Vegas Watkins was about the only one who was specializing in DUI really and the only one trying a lot of cases. He must have about 50 reported opinions by now all on DUI, if he is still practicing. I did not do a lot of criminal when I was there, and the little criminal work I did was all white collar, usually federal, and usually doctors for clients.

Travis

[Travis In Austin]

But hey, my 3 closest friends are lawyers.

That says a lot about you, not sure what, but it says a lot about you.[] Oh wait, you work for a group of doctors right? Well that might explain something[*-)]

Applogy is advance to Paul and JC.

Travis

[Travis In Austin]

People can argue technicalities and particulars all day, but it's pretty hard to see anything wrong with the above statements.

I couldn't agree more, And you, being from Canada, where someone charged with DWI has more rights and more protections than someone in the United States, I'm sure would be in favor in making sure the innocent are not punished.

In Canada, like here, we have this thing that decides who is guilty, or truly guilty, and even truly, truly guilty. It's called a trial. Here in Texas it is a jury trial, not sure if you get a jury trial on a first dwi in Canada, I will have to ask some of my bretheren in Canada. Neither we, nor Canada has a system of determining whether someone is innocent. It is either guilty (or, if you prefer, truly guilty) or not guilty (which does not mean innocent, we don't care if you are innocent here or not). The only thing that matters under our system and yours is if the state/Crown can prove you guilty/truly guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. If they can, you are guilty, if not, you are not guilty.

Best systems on earth, you have some more protection up there, but you folks probably don't let emotions and run rough shod over fundamental principals like we are prone to do here on occassion by trying to legislate around constitutional principals.

Travis

[Islander]

The details may vary a bit up here, but the fundamentals are the same as you describe. You're either proven guilty or not proven guilty. This can be a problem in the case of someone who is wrongfully convicted of a serious crime, like murder for instance. He may later be cleared, but even a pardon leaves the person with his reputation in ruins and with many people thinking he got away with it.

Emotions do run high at times, especially in the case of repeatedly convicted drunk drivers who finally kill someone, but we try to at least appear to work in accordance with our Constitution and Bill of Rights and Freedoms. Now and then, though, a judge will mete out a sentence that has the whole country wondering what he was thinking, sometimes because the sentence was too heavy, but more often because it appeared to be too light.

In North America in general, since the countries are so big and public transit on a national scale is a bit limited, a driver's licence is considered by many, even judges, to be more of a right than the privilege that it actually is, so there's a certain reluctance to take people off the road, even if they're a danger due to recklessness, drinking, or simple old age. In other countries, there is less reluctance on the part of judges to ban drivers for long periods or even permanently.

[Travis In Austin]

Sorry I am in PA

I'm not sorry, PA is better off with you then Hong Kong.[]

Pennsylvinia is very complex, you have what we call a tiered approach, a differenet tier of offense based on you blood/breath alcohol level, i.e., .08 to .10, .10 to .15, etc.

You correct in Pennsylvania if you refuse (assuming they have the legal right to request a breath test), it is a mandatory 1 year suspension. I don't know if you can get an occupational or hardship license there in that situation. Pennsylvania, like a few other states such as WI, have made it a crime to refuse the breath test. We don't have that in Texas, nor do we have road blocks, the legislators know, despite MADD, that the people will only be pushed so far.

This is what a friend sent me on the laws in your state:

Travis

N E W P E N N S Y L V A N I A D U I L A W S

Pennsylvania has substantially re-written its laws relating to driving under the influence or controlled substances and have issued harsher penalties as a result. The elements of the new DUI law are:

(75 Pa.C.S. Section 3802) (a) - General Impairment - (1) An individual may not be in actual physical control of the movement of a vehicle after imbibing a sufficient amount of alcohol such that the individual is rendered incapable of safely driving, operating or being in actual physical control of the vehicle; (2) An individual may not be in actual physical control of the movement of a vehicle after imbibing a sufficient amount of alcohol such that the alcohol concentration in the individual's blood or breath is at least .08% but less than .10% within two hours after the individual has driven, operated or been in actual physical control of the movement of the vehicle.

(75 Pa.C.S. Section 3802) ( - High Rate of Alcohol - An individual may not be in actual physical control of the movement of a vehicle after imbibing a sufficient amount of alcohol such that the alcohol concentration in the individual's blood or breath is at least .10% but less than .15% within two hours after the individual has driven, operated or been in actual physical control of the movement of the vehicle.

(75 Pa.C.S. Section 3802) © - Highest Rate of Alcohol - An individual may not be in actual physical control of the movement of a vehicle after imbibing a sufficient amount of alcohol such that the alcohol concentration in the individual's blood or breath is at least .16% or higher within two hours after the individual has driven, operated or been in actual physical control of the movement of the vehicle.

(75 Pa.C.S. Section 3802) (d) - Controlled substances - An individual may not be in actual physical control of the movement of a vehicle under any of the following circumstances: (1) there is in the individual's blood any amount of a (i) Schedule I controlled substance, as defined in the Controlled Substance, Drug, Devise and Cosmetic Act or (ii) Schedule II or Schedule III controlled substance, as defined in the Controlled Substance, Drug, Devise and Cosmetic Act which has not been medically prescribed for the individual or (iii) metabolite of a substance under paragraph (i) or (ii).

(75 Pa.C.S. Section 3802) (e) - Minors - A minor (an individual under 21 years of age) may not be in actual physical control of the movement of a vehicle after imbibing a sufficient amount of alcohol such that the alcohol concentration in the individual's blood or breath is .02% or higher within two hours after the individual has driven, operated or been in actual physical control of the movement of the vehicle.

Refusal of Breath, Blood or Urine Test - If you refused to take a breath, blood or urine test after being arrested for DUI in Pennsylvania, your license will be suspended for a period of not less than 1 year and a 3 days mandatory incarceration. A person should take immediate action if chemical tests were refused. The arresting officer must forward Notice of Refusal (DL-26 Form), to inform Pennsylvania Department of Transportation (PennDOT) of driver's refusal. Once received, PennDOT forwards order to driver that licence shall be suspended in 30 days from the date of correspondence. Driver has 30 days from correspondence date to appeal in a civil proceeding.

P E N N S Y L V A N I A D U I P E N A L T I E S

Pennsylvania has taken the position that a person’s Blood Alcohol Level (BAC) and the number of times the person has committed a DUI within the last ten years will dictate what punishment they will receive.

As of February 2, 2004 there are three categories a person will fall into based on the level of the alcohol in their system. There is

a) .08%-.099%

.10% - .159%

c) .16% and higher

Included in this category are refusal to submit to a test. All of the categories require a Court Reporting Network (CRN) evaluation; the first and second offenders require Alcohol Highway Safety. (AHSS). BAC .16 or higher and all subsequent offenses require a mandatory Drug and Alcohol (D&A) assessment and treatment. All second and subsequent offense requires the installation of an Ignition Interlock System.

FIRST OFFENSE (NO PRIOR PA DUI OFFENSES WITHIN THE LAST 10 YEARS)

BAC is .08% to .099%. This is an ungraded misdemeanor with a 6 month maximum probation and a $300.00 fine. Required CRN, AHSS and possible D&A. There is no loss of license and no jail time with this particular category.

BAC is .10% to .159%. This is an ungraded misdemeanor with a mandatory 48 hour imprisonment up to a possible 6 months and a $500.00 to $5,000.00 fine. Required CRN, AHSS and possible D&A. The license suspension is 12 months. However there is a possibility to get an Occupational Limited License (OLL) after serving a hard 2 month suspension.

BAC is .16% or higher or refusal to give a blood or breath sample. This is ungraded misdemeanor with a mandatory 72 hour imprisonment up to a possible 6 months and a $1,000.00 to $5,000.00 fine. Required CRN, AHSS and mandatory full D&A. The license suspension is 12 months. Also possibility for OLL after serving hard 2 months suspension.

SECOND OFFENSE

BAC is .08% to .099%. This is an ungraded misdemeanor with a mandatory 5 days imprisonment 6 month maximum jail sentence and a $300.00 to $2,500.00 fine. The license suspension is for 12 months. Required CRN, AHSS, D&A and Ignition Interlock for 12 months.

BAC is .10% to .159%. This is ungraded misdemeanor with a mandatory 30 days imprisonment 6 month maximum jail sentence and a $750.00 to $5,000.00 fine. The license suspension is for 12 months. Required CRN, AHSS, D&A and Ignition Interlock for 12 months.

BAC is .16% or higher or a refusal. This is graded as a misdemeanor of the First Degree with a mandatory 90 days imprisonment 5 year maximum jail sentence and a $ 1,500.00 to $10,000.00 fine. The license suspension is for 12 months. Required CRN, AHSS, D&A and Ignition Interlock for 12 months.

THIRD OFFENSE

BAC is .08% to .099%. This is graded as misdemeanor of the Second Degree with a mandatory 10 days imprisonment 2 year maximum jail sentence and a $500.00 to $5,000.00 fine. The license suspension is for 12 months. Required CRN, D&A and Ignition Interlock for 12 months.

BAC is .10% to .159%. This is graded as a misdemeanor of the First Degree with a mandatory 90 days imprisonment 5 year maximum jail sentence and a $1,500.00 to $10,000.00 fine. The license suspension is for 18 months. Required CRN, D&A and Ignition Interlock for 12 months.

BAC is .16% or higher or a refusal. This is graded as a misdemeanor of the First Degree with a mandatory 1 year imprisonment 5 year maximum jail sentence and a $ 2,500.00 to $10,000.00 fine. The license suspension is for 18 months. Required CRN, D&A and Ignition Interlock for 12 months.

FOURTH OFFENSE

BAC is .08% to .099%. This is graded as misdemeanor of the Second Degree with a mandatory 10 days imprisonment 2 year maximum jail sentence and a $500.00 to $5,000.00 fine. The license suspension is for 12 months. Required CRN, D&A and Ignition Interlock for 12 months.

BAC is .10% to .159%. This is graded as a misdemeanor of the First Degree with a mandatory 1 year imprisonment 5 year maximum jail sentence and a $1,500.00 to $10,000.00 fine. The license suspension is for 18 months. Required CRN, D&A and Ignition Interlock for 12 months.

BAC is .16% or higher or a refusal. This is graded as a misdemeanor of the First Degree with a mandatory 1 year imprisonment 5 year maximum jail sentence and a $ 2,500.00 to $10,000.00 fine. The license suspension is for 18 months. Required CRN, D&A and Ignition Interlock for 12 months.

[Travis In Austin]

The details may vary a bit up here, but the fundamentals are the same as you describe. You're either proven guilty or not proven guilty. This can be a problem in the case of someone who is wrongfully convicted of a serious crime, like murder for instance. He may later be cleared, but even a pardon leaves the person with his reputation in ruins and with many people thinking he got away with it.

Emotions do run high at times, especially in the case of repeatedly convicted drunk drivers who finally kill someone, but we try to at least appear to work in accordance with our Constitution and Bill of Rights and Freedoms. Now and then, though, a judge will mete out a sentence that has the whole country wondering what he was thinking, sometimes because the sentence was too heavy, but more often because it appeared to be too light.

In North America in general, since the countries are so big and public transit on a national scale is a bit limited, a driver's licence is considered by many, even judges, to be more of a right than the privilege that it actually is, so there's a certain reluctance to take people off the road, even if they're a danger due to recklessness, drinking, or simple old age. In other countries, there is less reluctance on the part of judges to ban drivers for long periods or even permanently.

Well said.

I will give you one example of how your rights are greater here. In the U.S. you are not allowed to consult with an attorney to help you decide whether or not to take a breath test. In Canada, not only are you allowed to consult with an attonrey, you are required to consult with an attorney before agreeing. You can call your attorney, if you don't know one, they will give you a list of to call who are on standby 24 hours a day to answer questions.

As JB would say, truly "Top Notch."

Travis

[Islander]

When I saw the term "physical control of the movement of vehicle", it reminded me that when I lived in Ontario, someone told me his friend was charged with "having care and control of a vehicle while intoxicated", but he wasn't driving. He walked out of a party in a drunken condition and decided not to drive home, but to sleep it off in his car, which was parked in the lane behind the party host's house. A cop came by in his cruiser, took a look, woke him up and found him to be drunk, so the officer charged him, because he was in possession of the ignition key, thus in control of the vehicle.

Really overzealous attitude on the part of that policeman, in the opinion of everyone who heard about that.

[Travis In Austin]

How about Nevada?

How about it? I love it there, I'm admitted there. Great place. Oh, the law? You'r a lawyer right?

Looks like you are pretty soft on dui compared to Texas. I'll have to ask him again what the penalty is for refusing a breath test, if anything.

From another friend:

For first conviction in seven years: $400 to $1,000 fine; jail term of not less than 2 days nor more than 6 months or 48 hours to 96 hours of community service and if the driver is found to have a concentration of alcohol of 0.18 or more in his blood or breath, he must attend a program of treatment for the abuse of alcohol or drugs pursuant to the provisions of NRS 484.37945; 90-day license revocation.

For second conviction within 7 years: Jail term of 10 days to 6 months or residential confinement for not less than 10 days nor more than 6 months; $750 to $1,000 fine or an equivalent number of hours of community service while dressed in distinctive garb that identifies the offender as having violated the provisions of NRS 484.379; and the driver may be ordered to attend a program of treatment for the abuse of alcohol or drugs pursuant to the provisions of NRS 484.37945; one-year license revocation.

[Travis In Austin]

When I saw the term "physical control of the movement of vehicle", it reminded me that when I lived in Ontario, someone told me his friend was charged with "having care and control of a vehicle while intoxicated", but he wasn't driving. He walked out of a party in a drunken condition and decided not to drive home, but to sleep it off in his car, which was parked in the lane behind the party host's house. A cop came by in his cruiser, took a look, woke him up and found him to be drunk, so the officer charged him, because he was in possession of the ignition key, thus in control of the vehicle.

Really overzealous attitude on the part of that policeman, in the opinion of everyone who heard about that.

That is the law in most states in the U.S., and it a surprise to a lot of people. Most states require that the key be in the ignition. I have had clients realize they had too much to drink, do the right thing, pull over, get in the back seat but leave the engine or running so they could have the hear or a/c on and get arrested for DWI.

Never lost one of those cases, and now, I am pretty much able to get the prosecutor to dismiss it if the cllient does a short class or something. Every once in awhile run into a prosecutor who feels that they need a bunch of counseling, rehab, or something insane and we tee it up and the state loses. But the fact remains that the cop is within his rights to arrest because it is technically "operating" under the law.

Travis

[Islander]

Well said.

I will give you one example of how your rights are greater here. In the U.S. you are not allowed to consult with an attorney to help you decide whether or not to take a breath test. In Canada, not only are you allowed to consult with an attonrey, you are required to consult with an attorney before agreeing. You can call your attorney, if you don't know one, they will give you a list of to call who are on standby 24 hours a day to answer questions.

Thanks.

However, I'm not so sure about whether you're allowed to consult before blowing. Laws vary by province, as they do by state in the US. In Ontario, about fiteen years back, I went on a motorcycle ride with a friend to a motorcycle rally (sportbikes, not clubbers, so we didn't look like Hells Angels). He was drinking when I showed up at his place in the afternoon and not riding that sharp when we left. I wasn't pleased, but thought it was best he wasn't riding alone. When we neared our destination a couple of hours later, he missed the turnoff and passed a police car at illegal speed and was stopped. I turned around and rode up to him and the police car to find the officer had radioed for a second officer to bring a breath tester, since he suspected intoxication.

I don't recall my friend mentioning an offer to consult an attorney. He "blew over", as the saying goes, and was given an instant 24-hour roadside licence suspension. There may have been a fine as well, I don't recall. I had to ride to the rally site and find another friend with a bike to come back to the spot and ride drunken buddy's bike, while drunken buddy got on the back of my bike for the ride to the rally. That kind of shot the weekend, since he couldn't get his licence back until the following afternoon, when the rally was mostly over. I had to ride him to the Provincial Police station to retrieve it.

He eventually stopped driving his car and riding his motorcycle, preferring the hour-and-a half (each way) bus commute to work each day to stopping his drinking. It was the safer but sadder choice.

[Travis In Austin]

I don't recall my friend mentioning an offer to consult an attorney. He "blew over", as the saying goes, and was given an instant 24-hour roadside licence suspension. There may have been a fine as well, I don't recall. I had to ride to the rally site and find another friend with a bike to come back to the spot and ride drunken buddy's bike, while drunken buddy got on the back of my bike for the ride to the rally. That kind of shot the weekend, since he couldn't get his licence back until the following afternoon, when the rally was mostly over. I had to ride him to the Provincial Police station to retrieve it.

That is incredible, the road side breath test (PBT) is different then the test at the station. Here he would have been take to jail, we have never had a 24 roadside suspension, it was and still it go straight to jail, and then it starts from there. I have never heard of being let go at the scene, that is pretty cool.

Travis

[kelA]

Maybe this guy should just hire the lawyer that represented NFL player Donte Stallworth. For those that have not followed the story, this is the player that was DUI and killed a pedestrian. He was given 30 days in jail, which is really 24 with time served, 1000 hours community service, and 10 YEARS probation.

I guess at first glance the 30 days really sticks out. Upon further reasoning, the 10 years of probation is probably what will get this character in trouble. People rarely think of the ramifications of these "plea" deals because their whole purpose is to avoid jail time. Most likely with the probation will come drug testing in some form.These are generally set up to get the "perp" to violate the terms of probation and generate cash flow for the city. I think this is where he will see more jail time, on a probation violation. Think good and long before agreeing to a "plea".

[Travis In Austin]

Maybe this guy should just hire the lawyer that represented NFL player Donte Stallworth. For those that have not followed the story, this is the player that was DUI and killed a pedestrian. He was given 30 days in jail, which is really 24 with time served, 1000 hours community service, and 10 YEARS probation.

I guess at first glance the 30 days really sticks out. Upon further reasoning, the 10 years of probation is probably what will get this character in trouble. People rarely think of the ramifications of these "plea" deals because their whole purpose is to avoid jail time. Most likely with the probation will come drug testing in some form.These are generally set up to get the "perp" to violate the terms of probation and generate cash flow for the city. I think this is where he will see more jail time, on a probation violation. Think good and long before agreeing to a "plea".

I thought it was 8 years probation and two years house arrest, but no matter, that would never happen for you or me. The thing that is missing is that he settled a civil case as part of it and the family of the victim was pleading with the DA that they wanted it behind him and no prison time. Which I guess was part of the deal on the civil case, that the family beg and pled he not go to prison.

Travis

[mark1101]

In Georgia if you refuse to blow it is a mandatory 1 yr. suspension of your license.........like some of those other states.

[Tom Adams]

Maybe this guy should just hire the lawyer that represented NFL player Donte Stallworth. For those that have not followed the story, this is the player that was DUI and killed a pedestrian. He was given 30 days in jail, which is really 24 with time served, 1000 hours community service, and 10 YEARS probation.

I guess at first glance the 30 days really sticks out. Upon further reasoning, the 10 years of probation is probably what will get this character in trouble. People rarely think of the ramifications of these "plea" deals because their whole purpose is to avoid jail time. Most likely with the probation will come drug testing in some form.These are generally set up to get the "perp" to violate the terms of probation and generate cash flow for the city. I think this is where he will see more jail time, on a probation violation. Think good and long before agreeing to a "plea".

Played hookie one day and went to see the wife while she was in court. A young man (defendant) steps up and the state presents their case of drug possession and intent to distribute. The defendant pleads guilty to a lesser charge (plea deal by state due to defendant having no priors). The judge asks the young man if he knew about or had been offered first offender.......

Here in Georgia, first offender basically means that if you stay clean (i.e. don't get caught doing ANYTHING wrong) for 5 years there will be no felony record and you do no jail time. That's the upside. The downside is that the police have the right to search/stop you at any time, day or night, without any warning during that 5 year period. Plus the usual check in requirements with your probabtion officer. Any violations during the 5 year period means that you automatically go to jail at the maximum sentence prescibed by law for the offense with no allowance for time already served on probabtion.

Defendant: "Yes yer Honor, I know about first offender and yes sir, they (the state) offered it to me."

Judge: "So would you like to accept it?"

Defendant: "No sir."

Judge: "No? Really?? May I ask why?"

Defendant: "Well yer honor, anybody can get into trouble in 5 years. I mean, it's hard sometimes to not do something stupid. I bet everyone here in this courtroom, no offense yer Honor, probably does something wrong at least once a year and I ain't much different except I'm more apt to get caught."

Judge: "Well, at least he's honest."

Tom

[Islander]

My outsider's impression is that it's very easy to get arrested in the US. Not so up here. We don't have bail bondsmen, for instance, and find it odd or even creepy that there's one on practically every corner in some US cities.

It could be that the large size of the provinces means that you're unlikely to leave the province at the drop of a hat because the province line is likely quite at least a few hours away, so you'll still be in the jurisdiction of the Ontario Provincial Police (the OPP) in Ontario, or the Surete de Quebec (the SQ, formerly the QPP) in Quebec. Ontario and Quebec are the most populous provinces, with 21 million of the 33 million people in Canada (2008 census figures) living there, so they set the mood for the country in certain ways. Accordingly, a person would normally only be arrested if they're violent, are driving a stolen car, or have outstanding warrants. In the case of warrants, you might just be required to accompany the officer to the station to deal with it. Of course, if you can't pay the fines or have a friend come to pay them, you could spend the night in jail.

I should mention my experience with the police, and that of most of my friends, consists mostly of speeding tickets, quite a few in some cases, but no serious crimes. In the case of being found in possession of pot or hash, if you don't seem like a really antisocial type, the officer might be satisfied with dumping your stash at the roadside and giving you a ticket for speeding or whatever he pulled you over for in the first place. Possession of hard drugs is taken more seriously, of course, with an immediate arrest.

Also, if the officer's roadside computer check shows that you have a history of arrests and you've just done something more serious, you could be arrested because you're more likely to be trouble than the average Joe. Certain urban areas that have a lot of gang activity will also find the police less likely to hand out warnings. Gangs are often ethnically diverse, with one gang in southern BC calling itself the United Nations, so racial profiling is less of a factor than in some other places.

Although Canada and America are comparable in size, the population distribution is very different, with most Canadians living within a couple of hundred miles of the Trans-Canada Highway (Highway 1), so disappearing into the boonies is a less frequent occurrence.

If you're carrying a weapon, other than a rifle or shotgun during hunting season and have a hunting licence on you, it's a whole different story, because handgun permits are really rare (if you're a target shooter, you need a permit to own and a separate permit to transport the weapon to the range), so anyone who's carrying is likely a gang member or other type of criminal and the officer will immediately call for backup and you will almost certainly be arrested.

As I mentioned, my contact with police has been very limited and my info may well be out of date, so I invite any other Canadians to jump in and correct or update any of my statements.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

How about Nevada?

How about it? I love it there, I'm admitted there. Great place. Oh, the law? You'r a lawyer right?

Yea but I am one of those real estate lawyers that you said not to take advice from on DUI's, and I agree.

60 to 70 hours for a DUI case (assuming non fatality). Wow.

[kelA]

Maybe this guy should just hire the lawyer that represented NFL player Donte Stallworth. For those that have not followed the story, this is the player that was DUI and killed a pedestrian. He was given 30 days in jail, which is really 24 with time served, 1000 hours community service, and 10 YEARS probation.

I guess at first glance the 30 days really sticks out. Upon further reasoning, the 10 years of probation is probably what will get this character in trouble. People rarely think of the ramifications of these "plea" deals because their whole purpose is to avoid jail time. Most likely with the probation will come drug testing in some form.These are generally set up to get the "perp" to violate the terms of probation and generate cash flow for the city. I think this is where he will see more jail time, on a probation violation. Think good and long before agreeing to a "plea".

Played hookie one day and went to see the wife while she was in court. A young man (defendant) steps up and the state presents their case of drug possession and intent to distribute. The defendant pleads guilty to a lesser charge (plea deal by state due to defendant having no priors). The judge asks the young man if he knew about or had been offered first offender.......

Here in Georgia, first offender basically means that if you stay clean (i.e. don't get caught doing ANYTHING wrong) for 5 years there will be no felony record and you do no jail time. That's the upside. The downside is that the police have the right to search/stop you at any time, day or night, without any warning during that 5 year period. Plus the usual check in requirements with your probabtion officer. Any violations during the 5 year period means that you automatically go to jail at the maximum sentence prescibed by law for the offense with no allowance for time already served on probabtion.

Defendant: "Yes yer Honor, I know about first offender and yes sir, they (the state) offered it to me."

Judge: "So would you like to accept it?"

Defendant: "No sir."

Judge: "No? Really?? May I ask why?"

Defendant: "Well yer honor, anybody can get into trouble in 5 years. I mean, it's hard sometimes to not do something stupid. I bet everyone here in this courtroom, no offense yer Honor, probably does something wrong at least once a year and I ain't much different except I'm more apt to get caught."

Judge: "Well, at least he's honest."

Tom

I have heard it is similar here in KY. Maybe 5 yrs after probation ends. No bail bondsman either. Almost any drug charge requires drug testing or drug court for duration of probation. Testing is done on a phase system. Phase 3 tests 3x a week, Phase2 2x, and Phase1 once a week. You never know what day you are going to have to test. You call each day and see what phase is testing that day. Any violation and you spend time behind bars. The judges do not play around with that.