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klipsch Versus Altec Lansing...


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klipsch Versus Altec Lansing...

I have become increasing aware of some really nice looking vintage Altec Lansing speakers that are horn loaded.

For those with much mor eknowledge than I, what are the sound differences?

Are the Vintage altecs as desirable as the klipsch seems to be?

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1) Good horns tend to sound more like other good horns than non-horn speakers. Both of these are good brands, IMO. As always, it's a matter of taste ... and throw in room compatibility, electronics, etc.
 
2) In a side by side comparison (actually, in opposite corners of the same room) of the Altec Lansing Voice of the Theater A-7 vs. the Klipschorn in about 1965, the Klipschorn sounded a little sweeter and warmer with a little deeper (but not louder) bass. The Altec seemed a little colder and a bit steely. Both seemed clearer and more effortless than anything else in the room. I'm aware that the use of these adjectives is as subjective as can be.
 
3) About 10 years later, similar Altecs in the recording studio at San Francisco State University seemed to be warmer ....maybe there were improvements or maybe SFSU had better electronics -- and there we were listening to nothing but master tapes and live music passed through the monitors. We used A7s out on the floor smaler Altecs in the control room. The A7s sounded better. Our professor took us to just about every recording studio in the Bay Area in his class "Discover Your Ears" and the Altec 604 Es at the Wally Heider studio (driven by McIntosh 275 tube amps) sounded as good as anything, anywhere, with the possible exception of Klipschorns at stores like Pro Audio or Berkeley Custom Electronics.
4) Paul Klipsch ran curves of the Altec A7 v.s. both the La Scala and the Klipschorn in the '60s. They are reproduced somewhere on this forum. Both the La Scala and the Klipschorn had more high frequency response (above about 8 to 10 K, up to about 16k, if I remember correctly, and the K-Horn had more bass response on the average (dips and peaks in different places, but the K-Horn's was usually a little more elevated).
 
5) The Altec A-7s sound much like the much bigger Altecs used with the magnetic stereo widescreen movies of the late '50s and the '60s, except that the bigger ones had more authority and more bass. They were often used in theaters equipped for CinemaScope and Cinerama (but 70 mm often used the other Lansing, custom James B. Lansings packaged by Ampex, especially in theaters re-equipped for 70 mm Todd-AO by Mike Todd's Magna Theater Corp). The poster with the screen name "Convergence" put a lot of info on this forum about theater speakers, especially Altec. The JBL/Ampex/Todd-AO theater speakers may be on their sites.
Of course these speakers sounded really good only with magnetic stereo soundtracks -- they all sounded pretty bad with the mono optical soundtracks of those days. My friends and I would often drive to a theater with a mag print, and would always drive to San Francisco to see the 70 mm 6 track mag stereo version of a film, if available. With either Altec or JBL (Klipsch was not into commercial sized theater speakers yet), 70 mm sounded great in all but a very few cases.
6) I prefer Klipschorns, especially with the fiberglass mid horn (c1987), front mounted tweeter and AK4 steeper slope networks that attenuate an anomaly that occurs in the mid range speaker above its useful range. I haven't heard the new version of the Altec A7).
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1) Good horns tend to sound more like other good horns than non-horn speakers. Both of these are good brands, IMO. As always, it's a matter of taste ... and throw in room compatibility, electronics, etc.
2) In a side by side comparison (actually, in opposite corners of the same room) of the Altec Lansing Voice of the Theater A-7 vs. the Klipschorn in about 1965, the Klipschorn sounded a little sweeter and warmer with a little deeper (but not louder) bass. The Altec seemed a little colder and a bit steely. Both seemed clearer and more effortless than anything else in the room. I'm aware that the use of these adjectives is as subjective as can be.
3) About 10 years later, similar Altecs in the recording studio at San Francisco State University seemed to be warmer ....maybe there were improvements or maybe SFSU had better electronics -- and there we were listening to nothing but master tapes and live music passed through the monitors. We used A7s out on the floor smaler Altecs in the control room. The A7s sounded better. Our professor took us to just about every recording studio in the Bay Area in his class "Discover Your Ears" and the Altec 604 Es at the Wally Heider studio (driven by McIntosh 275 tube amps) sounded as good as anything, anywhere, with the possible exception of Klipschorns at stores like Pro Audio or Berkeley Custom Electronics.
4) Paul Klipsch ran curves of the Altec A7 v.s. both the La Scala and the Klipschorn in the '60s. They are reproduced somewhere on this forum. Both the La Scala and the Klipschorn had more high frequency response (above about 8 to 10 K, up to about 16k, if I remember correctly, and the K-Horn had more bass response on the average (dips and peaks in different places, but the K-Horn's was usually a little more elevated).
5) The Altec A-7s sound much like the much bigger Altecs used with the magnetic stereo widescreen movies of the late '50s and the '60s, except that the bigger ones had more authority and more bass. They were often used in theaters equipped for CinemaScope and Cinerama (but 70 mm often used the other Lansing, custom James B. Lansings packaged by Ampex, especially in theaters re-equipped for 70 mm Todd-AO by Mike Todd's Magna Theater Corp). The poster with the screen name "Convergence" put a lot of info on this forum about theater speakers, especially Altec. The JBL/Ampex/Todd-AO theater speakers may be on their sites.
Of course these speakers sounded really good only with magnetic stereo soundtracks -- they all sounded pretty bad with the mono optical soundtracks of those days. My friends and I would often drive to a theater with a mag print, and would always drive to San Francisco to see the 70 mm 6 track mag stereo version of a film, if available. With either Altec or JBL (Klipsch was not into commercial sized theater speakers yet), 70 mm sounded great in all but a very few cases.
6) I prefer Klipschorns, especially with the fiberglass mid horn (c1987), front mounted tweeter and A4 steeper slope networks that attenuate an anomaly that occurs in the mid range speaker above its useful range. I haven't heard the new version of the Altec A7).

Well said Gary. Very objective reply.

tc

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Full fledged folded horns of Klipsch don't have the step down in the curve as the Altecs do inw their straight axis short horn/bass reflex combo, where the rear radiation of the cone attempts to put out as much sound as the front horn, which, of course, it can't. I would stick with full fledged horns.

In fact, by the end of the year, I wll have horn loaded subwoofers to 22 hz. and get rid of my large directs radiator subs, for an all-horn system top to bottom! Fast transients, no power compression, amazing detail and dynamics, vs. mush for reflex........yuck.

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Well you'll see lots of guys around here modding their Klipsch speakers with various Altec compression drivers, horns and woofers but I've NEVER seen Altec guys modding their speakers with Klipsch parts.

I've considerable experience with both Klipsch and Altec speakers and IMO the Altecs are much smoother and have a more realistic midrange and late model Altecs with compensated crossovers (Models 14, 15, 18 and 19) have highs at least as extended as K-77 tweetered Klipsches.

IMO the Altec Model 19 was the best turnkey speaker ever made. Others have different opinions that are just as valid.

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You didn't specify in your posting what particular Klipsch speakers you are thinking of, and most respondents have referred to various heritage models, chiefly the Klipschorn. Klipsch makes an awful lot of speakers. If you were more specific about what Klipsches you are thinking about, you would get more informed answers. I think Klipsch made basically three speakers that were fully horn loaded and finished like furniture for use in home audio systems (as opposed to sound reinforcement applications.) These were Klipschorns, Jubilees and LaScalas. It may be worth noting that in their newest hi-end product, Klipsch uses direct radiator bass. And in the Cornwall, a full-range domestic loudspeaker that is well regarded, a direct radiator, ported bass is used.

I have owned Cornwalls and Klipschorns and presently have a pair of Altec Lansing Model 19s. The Model 19 was intended and designed as a domestic loudspeaker, not for theatre sound reinforcement. In my experience, the Model 19 is preferable to either Klipsch speaker I owned. It has a more open, natural-sounding midrange and is highly detailed with less horn coloration and listener fatigue. Klipsch was a brilliant engineer, but I think the midrange driver, K 55 V, he used in the heritage line was not of exceptionally high quality. That is why so many "tweakers' swap them out for Altec, JBL or other drivers.

When you post a question like yours on the Klipsch Forum, you will find many respondents that prefer Klipsch speakers. On the Altec Lansing forum, it may be the opposite. So much of your preference depends on your listening habits, the kind of music you prefer, your room, electronics, etc.

Both companies make speakers lots of people like. You'll have to listen for yourself and see what "does it" for you.

I have consistently found that I 'like" whatever is new in my listening room. Just something different often sounds better at first. It takes me about a month of really careful listening and comparison to really get over this novelty effect and come to an understanding of what each pair of speakers really sounds like.

One nice thing about this dilemma is that if you buy used speakers of this quality at a reasonable price, you can live with them for a few months or years and get most or all of your money out of them when you sell them. Cant do that with new stuff. Makes this a great hobby.

Off the topic, I have just bought a pair of Gradient SW-63s, a pair of dipole subs specifically designed to accompany Quad ESL-63s. The power supply for the Gradient active crossover was not included, so I am awaiting a new one that should arrive next week. I can't wait to hear this setup!

Enjoy your music!

George Roland

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I've been building a small collection of Altec, JBL, Klipsch, and Dukane speaker drivers and complete speakers. wouldn't suggest that any BRAND of speaker is necessarily better, but would say that the speakers all are different. Its all about compromise because nothing does it all well. I like hustling up nice horns at a good price and I'm really less concerned about the specific brand. Have fun with it.

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I think the sound of several horn loaded Altecs, and the Klipschorn changed noticeably over the years.
The later Altecs seemed to acquire better very high frequency response than they used to have, perhaps due to new "voicing" ("compensated networks?"). I noticed the first such change in 1974 with control booth monitors, but it could have happened earlier.
The noticeable changes in the Klipschorns were minor and major. Minor: The change from round to flat magnet tweeter (debatable whether this changed the sound much), then the front mounting of the tweeter, and the switch to fiberglass midrange horn (from metal). Major: attenuating the sound of the K55 midrange driver above its primary range, where there is a problem, the use of steeper slope crossovers in general, more severely attenuating lower frequencies getting to the K77 tweeter (even though it crosses over a bit lower, it really gets out of there much more rapidly below that point), and --- subjectively --- a bit more bass.

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