My new DIY speakers for 2 CH

[Islander]

Allways been curious and leary about the multiple controls on the pro amps . Your reasoning makes sense to me and I just may try pro amps in the future .

Pro gear of any kind tends to have more controls than home gear so the user can deal with any odd situation he may encounter, but for home use those extras just add complication. However, the pro amps tend to be real bargains in the watts per dollar calculation.

As for me, I'm using high-end home hi-fi amps.

[dtel]

Crown amps and Dx 38.

First, dtel, your room is beautiful and very well-put-together and I'm sure the system sounds great. My compliments to you and your helpful decorating committee.

Second, it is remarkable to me to see all those lights lit on your Dx38 with the knobs turned all the way up. I've got the input knobs and the output knobs on mine all set at the 12 o'clock position (straight up) and the lights come on only at really loud levels and even then, it's only the bottom ones flicking on musical peaks. If the bottom 2 lights come on, the volume has to be at deafening levels, which is really rare and only for a few seconds, so unbelievers can see how just how much headroom the system has.

Are you getting less noise and more detail with Doc Who's mod? I wonder if it would be a good idea with the high-power amps I'm using?

I honestly couldn't tell you, I know there is NO noise even if you put your ear up to the 402 dead quiet. I have never had any of this set up any other way, this was the first shot ?

I do have one problem a bad channel on one of the D75's, some days perfect, other days a static off and on, crackling sound which changes volume but never loud enough to hurt anything, and for no reason it stops making noise ? DrWho said it should be old tired caps, I am watching out for a replacement. The other channel and second D75 is dead quiet, with luck I can get another quiet one.

DrWho could answer better about his Mod, if is Ok for higher power amps. I know one thing he told me set all knobs on the Dx wide open and he was right it works perfect always green and sounds great, I love that little box and I have not even played with any of the settings yet.

I know I am not much help, it's only been hooked up for a week or two, I am still being surprised at how different everything sounds.

I know it's not good quality but I was flipping thru satellite music stations this evening and tried some classical music. Normally I would not listen because that many musicans just sounds congested and small on anything I had before but it sounds great now. The music sounds huge and from the smallest tinkle to the roar of the full orchestra is much more realistic, it's believable, much more enjoyable. It's not my favorite music but I can enjoy it much more than I could before, I kept going back to that channel, it surprised me also.

[DrWho]

Second, it is remarkable to me to see all those lights lit on your Dx38 with the knobs turned all the way up. I've got the input knobs and the output knobs on mine all set at the 12 o'clock position (straight up) and the lights come on only at really loud levels and even then, it's only the bottom ones flicking on musical peaks. If the bottom 2 lights come on, the volume has to be at deafening levels, which is really rare and only for a few seconds, so unbelievers can see how just how much headroom the system has.

Are you getting less noise and more detail with Doc Who's mod? I wonder if it would be a good idea with the high-power amps I'm using?

I modified the gain structure to play nicer with home audio, which has the added benefit of a way lower noise floor.

Btw, I don't think volume knobs are going to really add any kind of distortion, but they do add noise and that can affect the perception of inner detail and resolution even though it might not be directly heard as noise.

I would recommend the mod to anyone that can achieve full output with their amplifiers at 0dBV input.

[DU73]

i want to say so much.. so i'll limit to one word....... Simply Stunning..... well it's too good for just one word..

[stormin]

I modified the gain structure to play nicer with home audio, which has the added benefit of a way lower noise floor.

Btw, I don't think volume knobs are going to really add any kind of distortion, but they do add noise and that can affect the perception of inner detail and resolution even though it might not be directly heard as noise.

I would recommend the mod to anyone that can achieve full output with their amplifiers at 0dBV input.

Doc,

Are you saying we should all be doing this with all our pro amps? With the Crown K2 should we be running at max on the gain controls? Or is this just for folks actively biamping with these largers systems? If I were to run max gain I would have very little preamp control. I have zero noise at any setting on the gains or the preamp. That alone makes the Crown pretty remarkable to me.

[dtel's wife]

I would like to thank everyone for the compliments. The room in the pic is actually part of an addition to our home we completed in 2005, just prior to Hurricane Katrina. The addition includes the room you see and (beyond the French door on the left) a master bedroom suite for dtel and I. The room was actually designed with Khorns in mind for the corners that now house the MWMs/402s. Prior to the completion of dtel's DIY MWM setup the area housed a pair of Cornwall IIIs, which we won at the 2006 Hope Pilgrimage, a pair of Forte IIs, a DIY sub and the Forte II center above the entertainment center. As dtel stated before behind the sofa we have three Forte IIs mounted serving rear duty.

Dtel has alluded to the space behind the center column you see in the pic. The area you don't see in the pic is the dining area and kitchen. All in all the space we wanted to fill with sound is about 900 square feet. Dtel and I auditioned Khorns in several different settings and quickly decided Khorns weren't for us. Of course Khorns have a lot to offer, but it was obvious Khorns were not best suited for this space. We also auditioned LaScalas. Both of us think LaScalas are awesome speakers. Again, we felt they just weren't the right choice for us. We then had the opportunity to audition a "one channel" MWM/402 set up. About 25 Klipch fanatics were present at this audition. When we heard this set up we all looked at each other with "shock and awe". My daughter and I turned to dtel and said, "That's what we want!" Even in "one channel" it was apparent this set up rocked.

With a lot of help from some generous Klipsch forum members we began our quest. There are a couple of members that I must mention because they truly went out of their way to help us. Mark1101 contacted us, offering some "beater" MWM bins for a very nominal cost, and invited dtel and I to stay as overnight guests in his home with he and his wife, Kim. So the "redneck car carrier" was inspired. (Do a search, I am sure it will come up) With the "redneck car carrier" attached to our Jeep Cherokee we headed to Mark's. Upon our arrival we headed down to Mark's "Man Cave" and auditioned his newly set up MWM/402s. Mark has done a great job on his system and recently made some more upgrades. I can't wait to hear it next time we visit. The next morning, after waking up to find a herd of deer casually eating breakfast outside our guest room window we loaded the MWM bins on the "red neck car carrier" and headed back to south Mississippi. Dtel began getting the MWMs spruced up for the garage, robbed parts from other speakers, ordered one or two things and the garage MWMs were fired up. I thought WOW, if these sound this good I can't wait to hear 2 channel with the 402s. I really thought it would take a while to financially accomplish our family room MWM set up, but again the friends we have made on this forum had other plans. JC contacted us and offered a deal we could not refuse for his 402s, along with the DX. So we readied the "redneck car carrier" and "headed for the hills". Actually, we stopped at JC's while on our way to vacation in the Smokies. JC and Wendy invited us downstairs to give "the Macs" a listen. I was impressed, but I knew JC's heart was with the 402s. I really had a hard time with that one. While loading the 402s I really felt for JC, so much stuff, so little space. Little did I know I would be able to repay JC's generosity by landing him a pair of MWM Grands at an auction down our way for a real killer price. Last, but not least, Dr. Who. Thank you for the mods to the DX, we are still waiting for you to let us know when you want to vacation down here.

So, that is the short of how "A Star was Born". As for the decorating....my daughter and I have TOTALLY different taste in furnishings and accessories. It took almost three years to select the pieces you see in the pic. The sofa is a traditional design by Flexsteel. The chair on the right is also Flexsteel, but has a more Scandanavian appeal. The chair on the left is actually a "Chair and a half"/with Ottoman by Lane, again more traditional. The piece against the wall to the left is actually a coffee table. This piece has two inset bookshelves on each end, with slide out trays on each end. The middle is leather. When this piece was delivered we realized we really aren't "coffee table" people and almost returned it. We moved the piece around the room until it found it's home. I really like this piece because it is so versatile. It offers comfortable seating for two when placed against the wall and can easily sit four when pulled away from the wall. The end table has leather trim which ties it to room perfectly. The furniture you see pictured will seat about eleven people, with the hearth for the wood burning stove (on the right) offering additional seating for four to five. Adjacent to the hearth (out of the pic) is the dining area which will seat another eight people, with plenty of floor space left over for more seating if necessary. Dtel has done a great job designing and constructing our home.

No interior decorating here, just lots and lots of shopping by my daughter and I. We had a really good time choosing the perfect pieces for our home. Dtel was not invited to go shopping until we got past the "big stuff" and had already purchased the rest. We know how you guys are about "shopping".

As for the MWMs/402s I couldn't be happier. I love the sound. It is very difficult to tell exactly where the sound is coming from in the space because the MWMs do such a good job of creating that "big/full soundstage". This system is everything I hoped it would be and more. As an added plus, the Cornwall IIIs are now doing 2 channel duty in our bedroom, with the ArfandBark HK.

You guys are very accurate in your descriptions and interpetations based on the one pic dtel posted. The room is cozy, but not small. Surprisingly, the speakers actually disappear into the corners. In size, they are the largest pieces in the space, but to my amazement most people do not even notice them when entering our home. I usually point them out and talk about Klipsch before they can leave. I am not bragging but I think the room is so well balanced your eyes are not drawn to any one thing in the room. Landscaping a house is really no different than landscaping your yard....it's all about balance

I really take all of your comments as compliments. It is very important to us that people feel a sense of welcome upon entering our home. Your comments tell me we have satisfactorily achieved that goal.

Like dtel said the colors were from "one of those card thingys". What he didn't say was how many times we have painted this room since 2005. Believe it or not, all 900 sqaure feet has been painted three times. This last time, I told my daughter "We have to pick something we can live with for a while, because Dad says we are losing square footage with all these coats of paint." After three or four weeks of gathering those "card thingys" we settled on the colors you see.

Dtel, thank you for building us such a wonderful legacy, they are beautiful. These speakers will be around long after we are gone and I am sure Buddy would love to upgrade from his Heresy IIs one day. Well....maybe not...he is really proud of his Heresies.

I hold the friendships we have made through this Forum close to my heart and I am continously amazed at the generosity of the members here. You guys are like no other group of people I have ever met.

[greg928gts]

Greg

" My wife commented after seeing the picture, so what do they do, have it on half of one? "

Not sure what she is talking about but if it's what I am thinking, I have to get a Cd with plenty of bass !

She meant half of "one" on the volume knob!

She doesn't share my same desire for "parting my hair" or "flapping pantlegs" with sound once in a while.

I recently had a visitor to my shop, trading some equipment. He drove about 400 miles and we had a great time listening to tunes, eating, talking, etc... He thought the MCM system was the best of all my systems, and just loved it when I cranked it up. I always have control of the remote with that system, but I ask if people want to experience it louder, and louder, louder? He kept knodding, so I kept pushing it. He said it kept getting cleaner the higher the volume went! The Crown Xti was maxed (on the four bass bins), so that was about 800 watts, so I'm figuring we had about 1000 into the whole system for about thirty seconds, in a 24' x 30' room. Intense. Just to show that you're never too old for this kind of experience, he is 70!

Anyway, I guess my point is that these big systems are really something to experience, and when you can have speakers that you've built yourself in such a beautiful listening room, it truly is special. I hope you guys enjoy yours for many years.

Greg

[Brac]

Man, I need to get over to Greg's place!

[greg928gts]

Man, I need to get over to Greg's place!

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've been saying that for years. Well maybe a year.

Greg

[dtel]

[:$] I misunderstood what your wife was saying, but I do have a one track mind and it does not always behave.

Your right the louder it goes the cleaner it gets but that many watts would be amazing even outdoors, it must have shaken your windows, and he was 70 !

Brac you need to go listen, you really do !

[DrWho]

I modified the gain structure to play nicer with home audio, which has the added benefit of a way lower noise floor.

Btw, I don't think volume knobs are going to really add any kind of distortion, but they do add noise and that can affect the perception of inner detail and resolution even though it might not be directly heard as noise.

I would recommend the mod to anyone that can achieve full output with their amplifiers at 0dBV input.

Doc,

Are you saying we should all be doing this with all our pro amps? With the Crown K2 should we be running at max on the gain controls? Or is this just for folks actively biamping with these largers systems? If I were to run max gain I would have very little preamp control. I have zero noise at any setting on the gains or the preamp. That alone makes the Crown pretty remarkable to me.

It all depends on the specific gain structure of the total system and how loud you like to play it, etc...

It's probably not an issue until you get into bi-amping because the quality of the DSP is limited to the strength of the signal going through it. Cranking up the preamp to drive a hot signal through the DSP will normally result in a very hot signal at its output....which means you gotta turn the amp way down or face getting your head ripped off with the volume. The other factor about bi-amping is that you no longer have a xover between the amplifier and the speaker.....which means any noise in the amplifier will be that much louder (because the xover isn't attenuating the noise).

Reducing the gain at the output of the active crossover reduces the amount of noise the active xover generates and also allows the DSP to run with a really hot signal and not be too loud.

[colterphoto1]

Groovin Dtel, just be careful of heat buildup in that little rack. All those components are passively cooled (no fans) so some air circulation is mandatory. I have a couple of the smaller Crowns and enjoy their sound immensely. I'll have D60 powering my outdoor sub and AWR Rock soon!

Michael

[stormin]

It all depends on the specific gain structure of the total system and how loud you like to play it, etc...

It's probably not an issue until you get into bi-amping because the quality of the DSP is limited to the strength of the signal going through it. Cranking up the preamp to drive a hot signal through the DSP will normally result in a very hot signal at its output....which means you gotta turn the amp way down or face getting your head ripped off with the volume. The other factor about bi-amping is that you no longer have a xover between the amplifier and the speaker.....which means any noise in the amplifier will be that much louder (because the xover isn't attenuating the noise).

Reducing the gain at the output of the active crossover reduces the amount of noise the active xover generates and also allows the DSP to run with a really hot signal and not be too loud.

Thanks Doc.

[rigma]

Great job dtel, they are awsome!

rigma

[dtel]

Thanks everyone.

Michael it's just a flat board in front holding everything, the sides top and back are open, the Dx is much deeper so it holds the other two up. There is a small block of wood in between each unit to help support so it's not just hanging there. I know that commercial stuff is made to fit in a rack but I felt better with a little block for back support.