Thanks Again and a few comments and questions new KHorns

[AltmanEars]

Thanks Greg for the advice. It is my understanding that making Klipsch better is somewhat of a labor of love for you. To the end of simplifying a system how does adding and upgrading passive crossovers simplify a system when one can dramatically simplify the signal path with an active crossover?

Here is a review by a horn enthusiast who has carefully listened to past Klipsch crossovers

KLIPSCHORN (& LASCALA) MODIFICATIONS

As I promised, a helpful reader has provided his extensive experiences with modifications of the two best Klipsch speakers. Here it is, with some minor editing and my bold:

"I am a 28 year plus owner of Klipsch LaScala's. (Crossover to be moved into a set of Klipschorns.) I have spent over 6+ months getting the right parts to make the Klipsch sound right again. The original Klipsch used a no plastic foil in oil capacitor.

I started with Sonicap Gen I's, Mundorf Supreme's, Mundorf Silver in Oil caps and Duelund VSF. When first putting in the Sonicaps, it struck me how the speakers changed in sound completely. They did not sound like Klipsch horn loaded speakers. I always thought horn speakers were a either love or hate them, but with the plastic caps they sounded like any other speaker?

Next, I put in the Mundorf Supreme; Much better than the constrained dynamics of the Sonicaps. Of course, they were much larger. All the time, I kept one speaker original. I started to notice an odd thing: You could not listen to both speakers, at the same time, when the plastic caps were installed in one. Almost like they were out of phase?

Next, I installed a Duelund VSF cap, that at the time was rated best in the world by Tony Gee and Tempo Electric. I was still using the vintage foil midrange cap for this test, as I did not have a Duelund midrange cap. One thing that struck me is I could now listen to both speakers. There was not the out of phase problem. Both the vintage and Duelund were foil caps. I was so impressed with the Duelund, I bought a set of CAST (yet untested by Tony or Tempo) caps for the tweeters.

Ratings On All Capacitors Tested

Tweeter caps

1. Duelund CAST- They make the #2 in the world, Duelund VSF, sound noisy by comparison. The CAST are rated #1 in the world, and in my opinion Tony does not do a good job stating just how much better they are.

2. Duelund VSF- These should be declared 'official replacement' for the vintage foil in oil caps in Klipsch speakers. Klipsch owners you will be blown away! The speakers will sound the same, but wayyyy less noise.

3. Mundorf Supreme- They are rough and crude by comparison to either Duelund's, and made things sound like plastic. This I could never live with, meaning plastic, but their dynamics are much better than Sonicaps.

4. Mundorf Supreme Silver in Oil- They sound similar to the Supreme, but tend to tilt the sound upward and end up not sounding as balanced as the Supreme.

5. Vintage Aerovox foil in oil- These came with the speakers. Wayyyyy too much noise. They have better dynamics than the Sonicaps, but with a trade off of much more noise.

6. Sonicaps- This may be a toss up to some people over the vintage; The trade off of less noise for less dynamics. I suspect many who have replaced the originals to these have like the noise reduction. I consider this a downgrade to the original caps. You get less noise, but lose what made the speakers so good in the first place: Realness.

Midrange caps

1. Duelund VSF- An improvement over the vintage foil in oil in the midrange. They resonate less than vintage, but the improvement is not even close to the improvement you get in the tweeter caps. Duelund tweeter caps are slam dunk money in the bank improvements over vintage. The shortfall of these speakers is the CRUDE original foil in oil tweeter caps.

2. Aerovox vintage foil in oil- It's surprising the vintage foil in oil sounds quite good in the midrange, for as lousy as the vintage is in the tweeter section, they are 2nd best to the Duelund in the midrange. They sound like real people and instruments.

3. Mundorf Supreme- The dynamics are around the same as the vintage, or Duelund, but leaves an unmistakable plastic sound.

4. Sonicaps- Dynamics are lacking and they are much smaller. Sound compressed and dead.

Best bang for the buck is, by far, replacing the vintage tweeter cap. To keep the "real sound", you need to go to a foil cap, and I can imagine no better than the #2 rated in the world: Duelund VSF. The Duelund CAST is MUCH quieter then even the VSF, but comes at price some may not be willing to pay. But make no mistake; The CAST are MUCH quieter, and who would have thought this at this level of capacitor.

I am a 28 year owner of these speakers, so I am very familiar as to how they sound. I can say they have NEVER sounded anywhere near as good as they do now. They sound so good, I have sold one of my systems as it was not even worth listening too.

Test equipment

Front end:
Linn LP12, Cirkus, Lingo, Ekos MkII and Linn Adikt.
Linn Karik

Pre-amps
Linn Kairn (2003 latest version)
Fisher x101d (and various other Fisher tube amps)

Amps
Linn Klout

Speakers
Klipsch LaScala's (1980), when done, they had 1 CAST tweeter cap and 1 VSF tweeter cap. Midrange cap was Duelund VSF. The crossover will be going into a set of Klipschorns. If money is no object, I would get the CAST tweeter caps (but I already owned the VSF).

Speakers compared to were Linn 5140's. All Linn gear, except sources, now sold. Two systems were used through test time for months.

The Duelund's made the biggest improvement with vintage tube gear and not as much with SS. If you follow Steen's writing's, using no plastic is crucial. Mixing foil and plastic caps is not good, and I would never have plastic caps again!

The best cheap upgrade is to stick with as much parts as Paul Klipsch designed himself. Use the vintage foil in oil caps in the midrange and Duelund VSF for the tweeter caps. HUGE improvement for not much $. As money comes along, upgrade the midrange and to CAST, if one desires, for the tweeters.

I would love to hear your opinion on where the Klipsch will rank after these upgrades, but I can assure it is MASSIVE! I have talked to the owner of Duelund, and he thinks of their caps as improved vintage, which is what they are and the improvement is huge!

I plan to upgrade to a vintage amp with Duelund coupling caps in the future. Should the Klipschorn be ranked back at #1? I do not know, but I can say the Duelund improvement is as big as going from SS to tubes was for me."

BTW this was from arthur salvatore's website

As you can see passive crossover work is tough and in the end the caps this enthusiast selected were more expensive than the networks that are touted by the Klipsch faithful. In addition the caps are more expensive than many low end electronic crossovers.

Furthermore, as far as I can tell, everyone who has suggested that I go for new replacement passive crossover networks has never heard new Klispch networks in a 2009 vintage KHORN. The logic for replacing tired crossovers in old speakers is entirely different than replacing new, matched to your new drivers, crossovers which are working as designed.

All said it may be fun for you to build a spare top for my Khorns just to see how it all works in practical terms. I prefer the complete tops since at some point in time I'd like to sell unmolested 2009 Khorns, in the interest of good Klipsch stewardship...

[AltmanEars]

sorry dup

[Cut-Throat]

Mike mentioned the V-Trac horn and BMS 2" throat drivers that I made and installed in his Khorns. I have the same setup and I can tell you it's the best sounding system I've ever heard. Switching to the larger format for the midrange on my Khorns gave me a lot of "answers" to questions I had been asking for twenty years. It was such a transformation for me that I was compelled to go into production with the V-Trac horns and I even have demo units that I spent about $2500 putting together that I send all around the country for Khorns owners to try out. You are welcome to get on the list and try them out yourself.

Greg

I would agree that replacing the Mid-range of the Khorn is the Best Improvement you can make. After I got my Altec 1005B Horns, it is the best sounding system that I have ever heard also. It is going on 5 years now and I have not looked back.

As far as the Bass, I don't need a Subwoofer, but I have a Rel and It is indeed a seemless fit with the Khorns. If you've never heard a REL, you have no idea how seemlessly a Sub can fit into a system. I occasionally use my REL Strata III with movies, but I am not a Bass freak, so I don't use it for music.

[Travis In Austin]

I would love to see some photos. Those sound very nice indeed.

[AltmanEars]

Thanks I have the Linn sub which is better than the Top of the line REL on music. I also have the Martin logan subs. I owned the Jadis sub and a Hartley. After you listen to the Hartley the others aren't really subs...

I've heard alot about the Altec and I owned several pr of VOT's (I just owned them I never listened to them except to playback my own practice sessions) The issue with buying your wonderful solution is that I'm not sure how it should sound. In other words I'm in no position to find a pr. evaluate and acquire a set. I'm also not sure there is any advantage over merely buying a new set of TAD's. Once you get the TAD's it doesnt much make sense to use Klipschorn bottoms and at that stage you dont really have a Khorn.

Just an observation --- this is a funny forum --- it actually seems that no one likes Klipschorns. I wonder if Paul Klipsch knew he was building the world's first open architecture loudspeaker? Did he know his most ardent followers would own speakers which barely resemble Klipschorns? I think Klipsch should investigate what AMG did with Mercedes and copy the business model. I'd feel much better with an AMGed pair of Klipschorns than one's that I have "Macgyvered" using "better" parts from a Pioneer/JBL/Altec catalog.

[Cut-Throat]

Just an observation --- this is a funny forum --- it actually seems that no one likes Klipschorns. I wonder if Paul Klipsch knew he was building the world's first open architecture loudspeaker? Did he know his most ardent followers would own speakers which barely resemble Klipschorns? I think Klipsch should investigate what AMG did with Mercedes and copy the business model. I'd feel much better with an AMGed pair of Klipschorns than one's that I have "Macgyvered" using "better" parts from a Pioneer/JBL/Altec catalog.

I think we all like Khorns, yourself included. We just want to improve on them. Which was exactly what you were trying to do in your original post in this thread.

[greg928gts]

Thanks I have the Linn sub which is better than the Top of the line REL on music. I also have the Martin logan subs. I owned the Jadis sub and a Hartley. After you listen to the Hartley the others aren't really subs...

I've heard alot about the Altec and I owned several pr of VOT's (I just owned them I never listened to them except to playback my own practice sessions) The issue with buying your wonderful solution is that I'm not sure how it should sound. In other words I'm in no position to find a pr. evaluate and acquire a set. I'm also not sure there is any advantage over merely buying a new set of TAD's. Once you get the TAD's it doesnt much make sense to use Klipschorn bottoms and at that stage you dont really have a Khorn.

Just an observation --- this is a funny forum --- it actually seems that no one likes Klipschorns. I wonder if Paul Klipsch knew he was building the world's first open architecture loudspeaker? Did he know his most ardent followers would own speakers which barely resemble Klipschorns? I think Klipsch should investigate what AMG did with Mercedes and copy the business model. I'd feel much better with an AMGed pair of Klipschorns than one's that I have "Macgyvered" using "better" parts from a Pioneer/JBL/Altec catalog.

This is one of the best posts I've read in a long time. Made me laugh.

I agree, I think Klipsch is really letting go of what brought em here. Not that the Palladium shouldn't be top of the line, but to ignore fully horn-loaded loudspeakers as a flagship speaker is really disappointing. I think you're AMG analogy might be a good model for Klipsch.

For the record, I don't think my Khorns are really Khorns anymore.

Greg

[greg928gts]

To the end of simplifying a system how does adding and upgrading passive crossovers simplify a system when one can dramatically simplify the signal path with an active crossover?

I don't see it this way. Adding an active crossover usually means adding electronics within the signal stream that wouldn't be there otherwise, there's extra wiring, and there are multiple amplifiers. That seems much more complex than a source, an attenuator, an amplifier, and a speaker system (with passive crossovers).

I got a chuckle from the example you copied of the guy agonizing over which cap to use. Would it really be any different if he was agonizing over what wire to use between the active crossover and the amplifiers? I think this is the audiophile hobby and it shows how obsessive we all can be at times. I try to laugh at myself.

I'm not suggesting you upgrade your crossovers, I'm suggesting you might want to upgrade your midrange horn, which would necessitate a different passive crossover. But to be honest, it's hard for me to recommend a V-Trac horn for you 2009 Khorns. Something just doesn't seem right about that to me. But I will tell you that I have never been happier with my system than I am right now, and I owe it to having a big ol 2" throat horn that works within the simple signal chain that I outlined above. Your 2009 Khorns have an 11/16" throat for the midrange.

You don't need to buy tops from me. Just get on the demo list and the V-Trac demo's will be sent to you to try out for a couple of weeks. Your only obligation is to pay the shipping to the next person. www.dcchomes.com/vtrac3.html

BTW, I appreciate your good Klipsch stewardship. I hope that's how people view what I'm trying to do with the upgrades.

Greg

[greg928gts]

Mike mentioned the V-Trac horn

Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy so did I!!!

Unless I'm chopped liver!!

I'm with the program!!

Sorry!

Thank you Richard!

[AltmanEars]

Actually a passive crossover is so damaging to the sound that the foremost designer of passive crossovers in the world Seigfried Linkwtz only uses active crossovers in his speakers. Almost anything you can do to shape the waveform in the passive domain is deleterious to the purity of the sound. In fact it may be more critical to have steep slopes when using horn speakers yet, passive steep slopes can introduce massive phase issues. In addition, since most Klipsch owners appreciate tube amps you can better control the damping factor with an active setup.

This is from Siegfreid's website

Crossovers

It is practically impossible for a single radiator to cover the 20 Hz to 20 kHz audio frequency range at adequate sound pressure levels (SPL) and with wide dispersion off-axis. At a 50 Hz bass frequency, for example, it takes an air volume displacement of 214 cm³ to generate 90 dB SPL at 1 m distance from the source in free space. Take a typical 6.5 inch (132 mm effective) diameter driver and its cone would have to move 14 mm peak-to-peak linearly, which by far exceeds its excursion capability (Ref. 4).
At 1000 Hz, though, the same driver would have to vibrate only with (50/1000)² = 1/400^th of this excursion for the same 90 dB SPL, but now the cone is in its breakup region and no longer acts as a rigid piston, causing energy storage and deteriorating off-axis radiation. Thus, this driver will have to be complemented with a larger one for low frequencies, and a smaller one to extend the highs, in order to obtain full frequency range coverage. The electrical audio signal then needs to be divided between three drivers.

The proper crossover of signals from one driver to the next is a subject of debate amongst audiophiles with some preferring a1st order Butterworth filter function . As often done, a single capacitor and resistor in the connection to the tweeter will not necessarily create a phase-linear 6 dB/octave crossover, but more something like a 18 dB/oct. acoustic response due to the inherent 12 dB/oct. highpass behavior of the tweeter itself. Furthermore, the tweeter will contribute a good amount of intermodulation distortion because the cone excursion wants to rise at 12 dB/oct. towards lower frequencies for constant SPL and the driver is not built for that. Add to this the wide frequency coverage overlap between tweeter and midrange, with the resulting irregular polar radiation pattern, and the 6 dB/oct. crossover becomes a costly solution for achieving waveform fidelity. At best, the goal may be obtained over a very small region in space and over a limited frequency range. But, does it matter to the listening experience, given some common observations?

Networks that divide the electrical audio signal between different drivers must be designed with the driver characteristics and the driver layout in mind in order to obtain the desired acoustic crossover function and polar radiation pattern in conjunction with tolerable non-linear and linear distortion of the acoustic output. All crossovers involve design tradeoffs. For the Audio Artistry Beethoven-Elite system, for example, I used 24 dB/oct. and 12 dB/oct. Linkwitz-Riley (Ref. 17) and 6 dB/oct. Butterworth acoustic crossover filter responses. My latest design, the ORION, employs two 24 dB/oct filters for highest accuracy of perceived sound.

I have a strong preference for line level active dividing networks ahead of the power amplifiers (Ref. 2, 12, 17). In this approach the power amplifier output is connected directly - except for a very low resistance speaker cable - to the voice coil of the driver. The amplifier takes maximum control over the motion of the speaker cone which gives a greater sense of clarity and dynamism compared to a passive dividing network between amplifier and driver. Active crossovers make much more effective use of amplifier power. A clipping woofer amplifier is not seen by the tweeter, which has its own amplifier. The clipping of the woofer amplifier may not even be noticed in this case. It would surely be heard with a passive crossover, where it might even overheat and damage the tweeter, because of the large amount of high frequency energy in the clipped signal.

Crossover filters for a speaker usually incorporate frequency response corrections for the individual drivers to obtain a desired overall response. The active network has the advantage of correcting easily for different sensitivities of drivers and equalizing not only the individual drivers but the combined response as well. Not having to deal with the interaction between driver impedance and passive filter network gives the designer of an active crossover/equalizer much greater freedom and control to develop a superior product.

This is not to say that one can't engineer a drop in Khorn top, cross it over passively and make better sound than stock.

[Islander]

it actually seems that no one likes Klipschorns. I wonder if Paul Klipsch knew he was building the world's first open architecture loudspeaker? Did he know his most ardent followers would own speakers which barely resemble Klipschorns?

Actually, people really do like their Klipschorns, but like the La Scalas, it's easy to see the parts, which makes it less intimidating and more tempting to see if you can do upgrades. As well, lots of people have older Heritage speakers, so there are no worries about voiding warranties by making changes.

Adding to that is that there's a large community of modifiers by now, which encourages newbies to have a go at it, too.

Nobody would bother if the speakers weren't very good to begin with. They sound great in stock form and have the potential to sound even better when modified. It's not for everyone, but the option is there for those who are so inclined.

[Coytee]

Active crossovers ROCK!

[Y] []

[consistent]

Hi,

Congrats on a great purchase. I ended up like you wanting to fiddle a little with the sound of my 2004 Khorns so I made some changes to the room then built a tractrix, purchased Bobs tweet then bi-amped with separate shunt devices built for top/bottom leveling. I must say the whole set-up now blows me away - still using the AK4 network! I think having separate amps with their own pre (shunt) makes the tractrix and tweeter (in the vertical) really work with the bottom end. Very magical.

All the best

[Clipped and Shorn]

An interesting thread, for a change (just kidding). All the talk of Butterworth and Linkwitz seemed like a high cholesterol breakfast. Although not Klipsch, I am very happy with my diy 4-way (tri-amp) Altec system with electronic active crossover ( I use a passive between the mid horn and the JBL tweeter).

I have not grown tired of the ability to tweak and adjust while listening, although most of the time I leave the crossover settings alone.

Then again, in another space, I am also happy with my stock LaScalas and home-built SET/ 2A3 and Blueberry preamp.

-Sea & Ess

[AltmanEars]

consistent --- I might not be reading you right... Are you using two amplifiers with an attenuator before the tweeter amplifier to adjust level --- with a standard AK4 network?. Please elaborate. Are the two amps identical?

[AltmanEars]

An interesting thread, for a change (just kidding). All the talk of Butterworth and Linkwitz seemed like a high cholesterol breakfast. Although not Klipsch, I am very happy with my diy 4-way (tri-amp) Altec system with electronic active crossover ( I use a passive between the mid horn and the JBL tweeter).

I have not grown tired of the ability to tweak and adjust while listening, although most of the time I leave the crossover settings alone.

Then again, in another space, I am also happy with my stock LaScalas and home-built SET/ 2A3 and Blueberry preamp.

-Sea & Ess

I was hoping that someone would proclaim that they know alot more than Linkwitz and there is a valid technical reason why you wouldnt want to use an active crossover with a Klipschorn. Your contributions are very appreciated and don't feel bad about not owning a Klipsch --- I'm beginning to understand that the noun "Klipschorn" is used like "Fridgedor". Furthermore, if you started with stock Klipsch and merely replaced the crossover, the horns the bass drivers and the cabinet you would be where you are now .. A highly modified Khorn which you choose to call an Altec. BTW what crossover are you using and do you delay any of the drivers?

[consistent]

Hi

I have interposed a pre-amp/amp to speaker input to drive the woofer and same again to drive mid/tweet. The Khorns allow for this just like a bi-wire but it is a bi-amp. It is 2 pre's (resistor/shunt with Noble pot) to 2 amps. I have carefully chosen the amps which are Pass Aleph 30 and an Altman BYOB. You don't need to drive them hard and the voltage from CD is sufficient. The pots really assit the levels I need to gain balance. I built a tractrix that delivers much more detail and even more detail when I use my Altec 288 16k's to their own tractrix. Keeps me busy!

Cheers

[Clipped and Shorn]

An interesting thread, for a change (just kidding). All the talk of Butterworth and Linkwitz seemed like a high cholesterol breakfast. Although not Klipsch, I am very happy with my diy 4-way (tri-amp) Altec system with electronic active crossover ( I use a passive between the mid horn and the JBL tweeter).

I have not grown tired of the ability to tweak and adjust while listening, although most of the time I leave the crossover settings alone.

Then again, in another space, I am also happy with my stock LaScalas and home-built SET/ 2A3 and Blueberry preamp.

-Sea & Ess

I was hoping that someone would proclaim that they know alot more than Linkwitz and there is a valid technical reason why you wouldnt want to use an active crossover with a Klipschorn. Your contributions are very appreciated and don't feel bad about not owning a Klipsch --- I'm beginning to understand that the noun "Klipschorn" is used like "Fridgedor". Furthermore, if you started with stock Klipsch and merely replaced the crossover, the horns the bass drivers and the cabinet you would be where you are now .. A highly modified Khorn which you choose to call an Altec. BTW what crossover are you using and do you delay any of the drivers?

Actually I have several two channel systems in various spaces on my property, some using active crossovers and some not. A couple of the "nots" are Klipsch Cornwalls powered by an Eico HF-81 and Klipsch Lascalas powered by a diy homebuilt SET using either 45s or 2A3 . My Altec system is a large homebuilt bass reflex cabinet housing Altec 416 for the bottom end. The cabinets were tuned to something like 40hz if I recall. Contained in the same cabinet (in its own housing separated from the rest) is an Altec 515. Also used is an Altec 511 horn+Altec 806A drivers. The JBL 2404H tweeters are tied in with a JBL 3105 passive network. The system is driven by three amplifiers and I use a Rane AC23 active crossover which sounds just fine to my ears and yes, although it took me awhile to dial it in because I did it by ear, I do use the delay functions on the Rane to align the planes of the Altec 416B and Altec 515C drivers with the Altec Horn, and this makes a significant difference. I also incorporate an Aphex 204 Aural Exciter.

Between the Rane and Aphex I have a lot of potential tweaking I can do to make a very wide variety of vinyl recordings and CD recordings sound there best to my ears. The Blueberry Extreme preamp that I use has no tone controls and these other electronic elements in the system more than compensate for that giving me maximum flexibility. Currently I use an upgraded Dynaco Mark III (tube) or a Carver TFM-55 (ss) for the bass, a diy SET with 300B monoblocs (Sowter OPTs) for the mids, and a highly modified/upgraded Dynaco 70 (built by Mark Deneen) for the top end (Horn+Tweeter). The only system I have with horn loaded bass is the LaScalas which I like for some things, and sometimes for certain recordings I actually prefer the bass reflex sound.

So you see, this Altec system is really not in the category of a modded Khorn since I do not have the horn loaded bass which is what most people keep when they do radical mods on their Khorns. The "bass bins" for the Khorn is the keeper it seems in these other mods. Seems also that most of the Khorn mods have to do with fixing the harshness or limitations of the mids, something which I achieved nicely with my large Altec system. There is nothing more beautiful than the mids of an Altec 515 in the proper setting. My Altec 511 horn with the 806A drivers are damped with an application of that clay-like stuff, as are the horns in my Cornwalls.

Firing up a system with one amp and speakers with built-in passive crossovers is a different kind of involvement than firing up a system with three amps and an electronic crossover + aural exciter. I appreciate both approaches at different times. Different modes of listening from simple music appreciation and relaxation to serious musicology.

- Si and Yes

[JohnA]

Just an observation --- this is a funny forum --- it actually seems that no one likes Klipschorns. I wonder if Paul Klipsch knew he was building the world's first open architecture loudspeaker? Did he know his most ardent followers would own speakers which barely resemble Klipschorns? I think Klipsch should investigate what AMG did with Mercedes and copy the business model. I'd feel much better with an AMGed pair of Klipschorns than one's that I have "Macgyvered" using "better" parts from a Pioneer/JBL/Altec catalog.

Mr. Paul did indeed know he was building a modifiable speaker. We have letters where he helped and encouraged people to modify and upgrade them. Klipsch has always offered to update almost any Klipschorn (and the others) to the latest configuration.

Above all, Mr. Paul was an engineer. As a consumate engineer, he designed the most cost effective solution for the goal in mind (what engineers really do). He did not try to build and sell the highest possible performance at any price. That opens the door to mods, like capacitor upgrades, similar to the ones you cite above. However, I could buy a new pair of K-horns for the cost of the Dueland caps for the squawker of ONE of my Type AA networks. Anyone can design the best, most expensive widget. Engineering 90+% of that performance for ~50% of the price takes engineering. None of us think our performance upgrades are cost effective. We have
the means to improve our speaker's performance and do it for the love
of doing it. I will say we have a great bunch of engineers and scientists here and none of the popular, repeated mods are "Macgyvered". They are well tested and the results posted.

As an early member, I have probably caused some of the modifications. My La Scalas were mismatched when I bought them. Making them match involved a series of cap, driver and network changes and a few other mods, like damping the squawker horns. Interestingly, I found the OEM Aerovox oil-filled caps on the squawker were not easily improved, but changing the tweeter caps was rewarding (like your post). After we had a long discussion about damping the squawker horns, we were told Mr. Paul did the same, but declined to put it into production due to the low benefit and high cost.

[AltmanEars]

John --- I think you missed the whole point --- I was making the point that some of the mod's like the Duelands are not cost efficient. My McGuyver comment was an attempt at humor and it should imply the solutions work but are not fully integated and properly engineered. That you think the majority of the suggestions on the forum represent fully engineered solutions which are cost effective --- we will part company.

The mods for the Khorn are clearly a result of a few smart guys who have fairly deep insight into some aspect of loudspeaker design who are attempting to honestly offer major improvements, but there is little evidence these are fully thought out integrated solutions.