Stupid Question on Jubilee

[seti]

Until I got the right driver to cover the mids and highs it seemed like the LF was a little over powering. The driver I have now seems a much better match and integrates allot better than the other drivers I tried.

[mikebse2a3]

Attached is the anechoic plot comparing the out of network responses of the Klipschorn and Jubilee LF sections. As you can see, the Jubilee isn't really any more sensitive than the Klipschorn. So, if you wanted, you could use your existing top section without any problem, IOWs, you don't have to worry about the top not being able to "keep up" with the bottom.

Looking at the plots it's obvious that a true sensitivity rateing can't be stated by just one number (for example Khorn-104db and Jubilee-106db) but overall though I would consider it very reasonable to consider the Jubilee more sensitive than the Khorn on average.

With the ability to adjust the midrange level of the ALK though I believe Rudy would be able to reach a reasonably good match with his existing top section.

Again looking at the area begining around 450Hz and up of the Jubilee versus the Khorn the Jubilee is more sensitive by about 3db@ 500Hz and 4db@ 600Hz so there is a good chance that you will find yourself adjusting the levels of the ALK squawker section for the best blend between the LF and MF sections.

mike tn

[Deang]

Again looking at the area begining around 450Hz and up of the Jubilee versus the Khorn the Jubilee is more sensitive by about 3db@ 500Hz and 4db@ 600Hz...

True, but this region is beyond the crossover point of the network -- output will begin decreasing after 400Hz and by 600Hz it will be 3dB down.

If you include that that nice peak in the Klipschorn's response (which with the older networks tends to dominate the response in most rooms) -- the Klipschorn is actually more efficient. []

[Deang]

Rudy, you have the older version, and I personally don't think it's suitable. I spoke with Al, who told me you called him, and that he's designed an ALK type filter with a 12dB/octave low pass filter -- which would work much better anyways. If you decide to pull the trigger on the bass bins and Al doesn't want to build it, shoot me an email.

[Rudy81]

Rudy, you have the older version, and I personally don't think it's suitable. I spoke with Al, who told me you called him, and that he's designed an ALK type filter with a 12dB/octave low pass filter -- which would work much better anyways. If you decide to pull the trigger on the bass bins and Al doesn't want to build it, shoot me an email.

DeanG, thank you very much for the offer. Al has been very helpful answering all my questions and providing a schematic for the bass bin crossover. It is rather simple and if I build or buy the Jub bass bins, I might take a shot at building them. I love learning new things and trying to build stuff I never have before.

Thus far, IMHO, the jub bass bin is not that much better than the Khorns in my room, at least not the two Jub bass bins I have heard. Yes, the bass is a little different, and I haven't listened enough to make a truly educated review. However, I'm not sure it is worth thousands of dollars just to change the bass bin. We'll see.

Again, thanks to all of you for chiming in.

[mikebse2a3]

Thus far, IMHO, the jub bass bin is not that much better than the Khorns in my room, at least not the two Jub bass bins I have heard. Yes, the bass is a little different, and I haven't listened enough to make a truly educated review. However, I'm not sure it is worth thousands of dollars just to change the bass bin. We'll see.

Hey Rudy

First just so there is no confusion I want to say I also believe that the Khorn LF is an awesome LF Horn and fully understand why someone would be very satisfied with them. I believe if I still had mine I would finish the Khorn's back like the 60th model and also after having heard the AK4 network change to a friends pair of Khorns IMO the performance can be improved in dynamics and clarity with some EQ to the LF to calm that peak Dean spoke of [].

Taking into account your disclaimers, I do have a couple of questions about your above thoughts between the two because I've heard the Khorns versus Jubs in my own room as well as in several other places and to me it was pretty obvious that as great has the Khorn is that IMHO the Jub has gained in the reproduction areas of dynamics,impact and clarity. Now the $ versus difference value is truely something an individual needs to make without question.

Were the Jub base bins your talking about from Klipsch or are they clones?

Just so I'm understanding you, are you saying that you listened to both the Khorn and Jub LF in your room or did you listen to the Jubs in a different location? The JUB LF and Khorn LF both (like all speakers) form a system with the rooms acoustics so if one doesn't have both horns in the same room location during auditions then it would be really hard to reach firm conclusions about how each performs versus the other which from the way I read your statement is kind of were you are at this point in time.

Rudy the great thing is whether you stay with the Khorn or go with the Jub you win![Y]

mike tn[]

[mikebse2a3]

True, but this region is beyond the crossover point of the network -- output will begin decreasing after 400Hz and by 600Hz it will be 3dB down.

If you include that that nice peak in the Klipschorn's response (which with the older networks tends to dominate the response in most rooms) -- the Klipschorn is actually more efficient.

Dean..Dean...Dean....you bad boy..using that nice peak isn't fair since it would be better if it was brought down a little.[][]

The region might be past the electrical crossover point of the network but down 3db acoustically isn't much and since the Jub having more output would cause either an increase or possibly a decrease (being affected by amplitude as well as any timing differences with the Jub/Mid versus Khorn/Mid combination) in response of this important region (were 1db to 2db differences are easily audible) when it is combined with the Midrange section, so again this being an unknown might require adjustments.

Rudy is definetly going into uncharted waters which can be fun, a great learning experience, full of frustration or a combination of them all depending on how someone looks at it.[]

At any rate, In the end I hope Rudy truely acheives what he wants and enjoys the trip![]

mike tn

[Rudy81]

Mike: You make some very good points. First, I have listened to both the real deal and a set of clones. Now, the BIG problem is that it was never in my room where I could do a more accurate comparrison of performance vis a vis my Khorns. I keep after this issue because the Jub has such a great reputation from those of you that own it. I have at best only had two hours of listening in two different rooms with two different systems. Hardly a fair way to evaluate something.

My Khorns are EQ'd by Audyssey, and it takes care of the mid bass bump. I have clearly plotted that response problem in my room with RTA.

My room is heavily treated for bass problems and I finally have the sound close to where I really like it. Since this is a never ending journey, I truly wish I could evaluate the Jub bass bins in my room against the Khorns.

Thus far, that has not been possible. For me, the learning and playing around is most of the fun.

For now, the search continues, although I am more convinced that unless I got to listen to them in my room, there is no way of truly comparing the two.

[mark1101]

Rudy, would you be purchasing the Jubilee HF unit (K402) at some point in the future? There is a big advantage to having the HF unit as it is matched to the Jub bass bin while the Khorn HF section is not. Once you have the whole package you'll be able to fully appreciate the differences from the Khorn, which is a great speaker in its own right as well.

[rigma]

Rudy,

I will add to the conversation. I have both Klipschorns (21 years) and
Jubilees(3 yrs) with 402 &TAD, and have had them in the same room
same location with all the same equipment.

In my opinion while
the Klipschorn is a great speaker, the Jubilee is substantially better
sounding. The Jubilee has the most realistic tone of any speaker I have
ever heard, bar none.

rigma

[mikebse2a3]

Hey Rudy81... I see you are a serious player...!!!! I just went to your link in your signature and that is an awesome room to play in..![Y][]

If anyone is reading this and not seen Rudy81's Home Theater room check it out.

http://www.prontoweb.com/klipsch_HT.htm

I see you discovered as I did that side wall absortion doesn't seem to be the best option especially with systems like the Klipschorns.

mike tn

[seti]

Rudy,

If your ever cruising through Little Rock feel free to drop by just give a little notice.

[mark1101]

Hey Rudy, nice setup and room you have there. Lots of fine equipment. I wish I had a room like that. I think you would be amazed if you replaced some of those current speakers you have with Jubs and K02 horns like Jubscala for a center. Remember, the Jub w/K402 has been engineered to also perform as a cinema speaker and you have quite the theater there. So as great as it probably sounds right now, there are upgrades available for sometime down the road......which is always nice as you mention the journey is part of the fun. As I look at your room I can't help but think how much more uniform the coverage would be with K402 horns.

[Rudy81]

Thanks for all the comments on the HT. This week, as soon as I get home, I will be putting in the latest upgrade. The KPT-1201 for rear and the KPT-12-VB for side effects. Those should be a very nice addition. I did find however, that the used speaker market stinks right now. Those cornwalls went for just over $600 a pair. Oh well, I needed to pay for the KPT's.

It is comments like the ones you guys make concerning the Jubilee that keep me in the hunt. I just will not buy an expensive setup like that without being able to compare it directly with my current system. Most of my HT is DIY when possible due to cost, so cost is an issue for me. I think Klipsch should have an 'audition' demo pair like Greg did with his V-tracs. I'd pay for shipping in order to get to listen to these things []. Problem is just the speakers alone isn't enough. There is also the issue of active crossovers and separate amplification.

The search continues!

[mikebse2a3]

I'd pay for shipping in order to get to listen to these things . Problem is just the speakers alone isn't enough. There is also the issue of active crossovers and separate amplification.

That's not a problem just another fun part of the journey..![]

Actually I Just wanted to make sure you know as an option there are passive crossover designs you can build (that were fully tested by Roy) that some Jubilee owners are using (when using the K402/K69A and also for the K402/TAD4002). IMHO having heard Roy's crossover designs both active and passive the two methods are extremely close in sound reproduction.

I personelly use the EV DX38 (along with my 2A3 SE and 2A3 P/P tube amplifiers) and have also listened to the Yamaha SP2060 and both units give very good sound reproduction when used with the Jubilee/K402 systems.

Anyway I really do understand your reasoning and like everyone you need to do what makes you comfortable and let me say so far IMO you've made some really good decisions based on looking at your setup.

I remember Roy once posted the "Jubilee isn't for those faint of heart" and it does take a leap of faith and one stepping out of their comfort zone..!

mike tn[]