greg928gts Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 I built a pair of simple networks for use in my Khorns that I'm calling the VSi networks. They sound fantastic with the V-Trac horns, BMS drivers, Beyma tweeters, and Crites woofers. I don't think they will replace my ALK Universal networks permanently, but they will have their place. The ALK Universal networks have a tighter and better defined bass, and a smoother sound overall. The VSi networks have a big bass that sounds better at lower volume levels, and a clearer and more wide open sounding midrange. I did a lot of listening today, and I found the VSi's to be perfect with low-power tubes and a jazz quartet. Just a terrific, raw, live sound. The only negative was that the bass was boomy on a few occasions. I preferred the Universal networks at higher volume levels with rock music. www.dcchomes.com/VSi.html Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted November 28, 2009 Author Share Posted November 28, 2009 Thanks go out to Dave (gothover) and Bob Crites for their help in designing the networks. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 That is very cool looking. Nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Very attractive Greg, those will probably work great with small Decware EL84 set amps. I have to admit I was sceptic about the no woofer inductor crossover, but I recall a Dope from Hope article that PWK conducted a blind test, and the pannel of listeners actually prefered it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Greg: Very nice! Compact looking, clean! How do they generally compare to the A/4500 network? And.... what would be the general effect using them with a ss amp, but at low volumes. Any thoughts? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted November 29, 2009 Author Share Posted November 29, 2009 Greg: Very nice! Compact looking, clean! How do they generally compare to the A/4500 network? And.... what would be the general effect using them with a ss amp, but at low volumes. Any thoughts? Thanks! Thank you guys. It was a fun experiment and the results were pleasantly surprising to me. This is a network that will stay in my Khorns for much of the time I listen to them. I'm going to try different brands of caps next. Another nice feature of this simple network is that changes in the caps make a very large proprotional change to the whole sound, since they make up so much of the componentry in the networks! The A/4500 network I have is an ALK Universal-type of network, so it's really a very similar comparison to the regular ALK Universal. I only listened to my ALK a/4500 for a very short time and it sounded fine, it just didn't offer me anything more by going down to 4500 on the tweeter. No gain, so no sense in keeping them, which is why I have them for sale. I remember my experience with switching a Crites A/AA crossover to the A mode and really liking the simplicity of it. My experience with the VSi's is much the same. A very plain, simple, wide-open sound that I really like. Then when I switch over to something with a lot more complexity like the ALK Universals, I like those too! But you can really hear the extra stuff. At the same time the sound tightens up and smooths out, there's a bit of a veil that covers everything. It's very interesting. SS amps would work fine with the VSi's. I don't know why not. The reason I think the VSi's would be best suited to low-power tube amps is more because the people who tend to use low-power tube amps would be the most likely candidates to appreciate the sound of the VSi's. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Greg, How do you cross the woofer? Do you just let it roll off on its own? Nice capcitors too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted November 29, 2009 Author Share Posted November 29, 2009 Greg, How do you cross the woofer? Do you just let it roll off on its own? Nice capcitors too. I like the ClarityCap caps, they sound very nice to me. No inductor on the woofer is kinda like not wearing any underwear! [] At first you think you might be doing something wrong, but you're not. If you don't tell anyone, knowbody knows but you. There's just something about the unrestricted freedom that appeals to you! Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hklinker Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Greg, These are both visually pleasing and so darn simple! Love the caps! Herb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg4guy Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Hmmm looks a little familiar.These are the Type A's I built last year for my La scalas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg4guy Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 These are the la scalas that I built that these crossover went in they are cherry with bubinga trim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted November 30, 2009 Author Share Posted November 30, 2009 Hmmm looks a little familiar.These are the Type A's I built last year for my La scalas. Nice looking networks, I haven't seen those before. I like the way your LS's turned out too. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg4guy Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 I went a little different on this set a hint of Belles in the front with the trim on the top of the dog house and a PH 800 horn however I will never build another with bubinga trim it is so hard I burnt up many countersinks drllling the holes for the plugs.I think the wood trim around the front may cut down on the side vibration also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 I have to admit I was sceptic about the no woofer inductor crossover, but I recall a Dope from Hope article that PWK conducted a blind test, and the pannel of listeners actually prefered it. I found mention of this in The Dope From Hope Vol.12, No.2, March 1972. Bypassing the woofer inductor improved frequency response in the 250-350 Hz range by 3 dB on the Khorn. I tried this years ago and found a slight improvement, so I left the inductor bypassed. The Khorn bass enclosure has a natural rolloff above 350 Hz so the inductor serves little purpose anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 "Another nice feature of this simple network is that changes in the caps make a very large proprotional change to the whole sound, since they make up so much of the componentry in the networks!" "A very plain, simple, wide-open sound that I really like. Then when I switch over to something with a lot more complexity like the ALK Universals, I like those too! But you can really hear the extra stuff. At the same time the sound tightens up and smooths out, there's a bit of a veil that covers everything." I strongly agree with above. "The reason I think the VSi's would be best suited to low-power tube amps is more because the people who tend to use low-power tube amps would be the most likely candidates to appreciate the sound of the VSi's." Yep, no doubt. Still, these filter types really shine with quality higher powered stuff too as long as you don't get carried away with the attentuator. I like the look of those, pretty sharp. What's with the swamper though -- and does Crites know you used it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 I like the look of those, pretty sharp. What's with the swamper though -- and does Crites know you used it? LOL. Yeah, he knows. I think it's needed in order to be able to choose different attenuations for the midrange. Yes? Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Ah, didn't notice that. I saw the swamping resistor and assumed it was John Albright's DHAxover design but without the low pass coil. I later stole that design and made it so the midrange could be attenuated and called it the Super A. Anyways, you can only move between the taps if you float common for the midrange, that is -- midrange negative is not connected to tap 0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 I'd like to see a schematic of the Super A. Are you still building the Super A for people to use? Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Never made a schematic for it, no need to really -- it's just the Super AA (ALKJr.) with a first order tweeter filter (single cap). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 oops, there's another difference -- John's DHAxover and the Super A bring the tweeter cap off of input positive. Tweeter attenuation (if desired) is done with an l-pad. Here's John's DHA filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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