cornwall I or forte II?

[smalltalk]

i am a real fan of the kg4. then i got to this forum and spent months reading about the forte II. i've been sniffing around for a pair near me. in that quest, i bumped into a pair of cornwall I. i emailed the owner and got this back:

"I am the original owner. They are the Cornwall Type CWO, serial # 36Y 158, has type 3B crossovers, and the finish is oiled walnut. Been my main speakers for many years. Very efficient, and can light up a neighborhood. Problem is, too small an apartment. They are in perfect working order, could use a grill cloth replacement. Have replaced the cloth once before."

now i'm real interested in the cornwalls.

how would anyone compare the cornwalls I to the forte II?

go with cornwall I or hold out for II or III?

cornwalls to kg4s?

what is a good price for the above described cornwall I?

any and all thoughts are greatly appreciated.

be well

rob

[Dennie]

Welcome Smalltalk, we're glad your here.

I say go listen to them and see what you think. Many people like the original Cornwall.

As far as a fair price, we'll have to wait for someone else to help with that. I don't have a clue.

Dennie

[Bill H.]

Both are great. I love the Forte for its size and Full, warm sound. Excellent Bass......(to me). Cornwall take it to the next level, but are room hogs, but an Excellent speaker also.

From my view, CW are running anywhere from 350 - 800.00 . Lately around the 500 mark.

Your choice, size wise , good Luck.

[smalltalk]

bill/dennie-

thanks for the welcoming and your inputs.

"room hog" - the cornwalls are indeed more than a bit bigger thean the kg4s,

then again, i lived with a good sized snell model d floorstander for years.

care to explain some details?

from the serial numbers any idea of when these cornwalls were built?

type 3b crossover?

cwo?

again, thanks in advance for sharing your obvious experience

be well

rob

[HudsonValleyNoah]

Y in the serial # says 1983

CWO is Cornwall Walnut Oil (walnut veneer with an oil finish.)

B-3 crossover is the last of the Cornwall 1 crossovers (after the B and B-2) - it also implies that the mid driver will be the K-52 with K-600 horn or marked K-57 with the K-601 horn.

A number of folks think this type of Cornwall (sometimes called the Cornwall 1.5) is the best sounding Cornwall of the Cornwall 1 and 2 types.

I like the sound of the 1.5 best as well.

It takes some upgrade work to get a Version 1 to sound as good as a 1.5 - but that's an opinion, naturally...

By the way, If it's in really good shape with all components working and original, $600 or more might be a more likely price...

Noah

[smokarz]

i recently acquired a pair of cornwalls from a very nice gentlemen off of CL for $500. for the money, you will not reget it.

[J M O N]

Both are great, but the Cornwalls are greater in my opinion. If you have the room, those would be my recommendation. Otherwise, the Fortes are also very nice.

[smalltalk]

noah and all-

again, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

i am heartened to learn that my interest in the local cornwall might be a cornwall 1.5 and that is a preferred model.

having neither heard nor seen a cornwall, i am looking forward to a possible audition. i fear that i might have to decide yea or nay without a listening if the cornwalls for sale are no longer hooked up.

an additional concern is about an aspect oft mentioned in this thread: size. my listening area is an "L" shaped living room measuring 25' long but only 12' wide. unfortunately the cornwalls would need to be placed along the length and thus might be too much for such a short (12') throw. thoughts?

this space is in an apartment, so volumne is usually moderate, maybe a tad loud when the toe gets tapping and the rythms flow from the kg4s. there are also moments when i am listening at a lesser volumne. the kg4s do a decent job sounding joyful even at the lower rate. how do cornwalls respond at lower volumnes?

lastly, my present speaker cables have banana plugs for the kg4s. what termination will i need with a cornwall 1.5?

once again, thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.

be well

rob

[Colin]

I have been tracking vintage Klipsch model re-sales for

several years now. The data is old, but with the pullback in prices recently,

it still provides a good guide to what to look for and expect:

• If

  Quartets are like KG 2s then three sales on eBay average $347. I think

  they provide about 40% of the Khorn sound. I only have ½ a dozen KG 4.2 sales

  on eBay, from 2006, and they ranged from $106 to $355, with shipping about

  $50. A lot of sound for the price.

• Four dozen

  Heresy pair sales on eBay, in 2004 and 2006, sell from $200 to $590,

  establishing the average value at $405. Shipping averages $80.

Posted: 5/2/2006 10/15/2009

• Fortes

  I and IIs are similar to Chorus models, though less-sensitive, and roll

  off slowly below 200Hz. In 2004, a half-dozen pairs sold on eBay from a

  remarkable $158 to a high of $930. In 2006, a few moderate sales lowered

  the average to $550. Shipping averages $100.

Posted: 5/2/2006

• The

  Chorus uses a 15" woofer, but frequency response extends down only to

  39Hz instead of the 12" Forte woofer at 32Hz! Chorus sound much like

  Cornwalls, but with a narrow, more modern looking, practical cabinet. The Chorus

  are larger and weigh 22 more pounds than Fortes. Klipsch specs show Chorus

  above Cornwall models, with

  the same sensitivity, but less of a fall below 50Hz. Chorus are cheap

  to the market compared to Cornwalls. On eBay sales in 2004 and spring

  2006, Chorus sales average $559, with shipping at $215.

• Posted:

  5/2/2006 10/31/2009

• Cornwall

  I and II models do NOT have horn loaded bass, have smaller mid-range horn

  than the larger Heritage models, but have a 15” woofer and amazing 100

  dB/w/m sensitivity! Despite their size, they still fall off quickly below

  50Hz. From 2-dozen eBay sales from 2005 to 2009, Corns sold from $500 to

  $1,400. An exception was in 2004, when a pair went for $1,800. With a

  steady decline in prices, Corns generally average $915 now, although all

  the recent sales have been near $500. Shipping is usually not specified, but the Klipsch

  forum does have a Cornwall

  shipping Vault that we share. Posted: 5/2/2006

  6/11/2009 8/16/2009

[Groomlakearea51]

Smalltalk: Cornwall 1.5's have the round cup and accept banana's.

For a complete description to decode the serials, finishes, drivers, crossovers, etc. including the timelines for the Cornwalls, take a look at: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/103886.aspx

[HudsonValleyNoah]

i am heartened to learn that my interest in the local Cornwall might be a Cornwall 1.5 and that is a preferred model.

Well, preferred by some. I like the sound a bit better. I think the Corn 1 sounds 95% as good with a refreshed crossover.

I know some that like the K-55 (in the corn 1) over the k-52/53/57 (in the corn 1.5...)

And I think there are (reported) some K-51 drivers floating around in SOME (or at least one) corn 1.5's and I can't speak to its sound as I have never heard a K-51.

an additional concern is about an aspect oft mentioned in this thread: size. my listening area is an "L" shaped living room measuring 25' long but only 12' wide. unfortunately the cornwalls would need to be placed along the length and thus might be too much for such a short (12') throw. thoughts?

Some "toe in" will be in order but if the KG-4 were working for you there, the Corns should work better.

how do cornwalls respond at lower volumnes?

The KG-4 (with its rear passive woofer) tends to rock the apartment wall behind it more that the Corn (at the same volume) and can cause interference of the neighbor kind... Cornwalls sound better than KG-4's at every sound level IMHO.

lastly, my present speaker cables have banana plugs for the kg4s. what termination will i need with a cornwall 1.5?

Corns before the version 2 all hook up to screw terminals. You can "up-grade" to female Banana plugs as I have with my 1.5's or change your wires or add adapters.

I hope all this helped and that you will enjoy your "new to you" Corns for years to come.

Noah

[runninshine]

Rob, like others have said the foot print of the CW does take up a little space but man do they sound nice and have plenty of bass. I bought a pair of Chorus because I was told they are very similar to CWs and they just seemed to fall short. (I still love 'em) I also like when people come over and say "Those speakers must be pretty old skool" and then I play them(the CWs) and they forget all about the size.

I wish I could chime in on the Forte II.

[sputnik]

Here's an old pic I dug up that shows them side by side. Having lived with both, I can't really say which I prefer overall. I'm sure you'll be happy either way.

[tyler8]

I have both speakers currently. The Cornwalls live downstairs for 2 channel and movies with other speakers. I had the Forte II's with them at one time and loved listening to music but moved them to my office upstairs. At some point I will match the Cornwalls up with another Klipsch product downstairs.

Everytime I start to say I hear things in the Forte's like an alleged deeper richness in the music I play with the Cornwalls and disagree. That comment alone speaks to the way I feel about both but the Cornwalls have stayed downstairs where the bulk of my listening is. Not disappointed with either. The Cornwalls are matched up with a Pioneer Elite and the Forte's with a Harman Kardon. Have been meaning to swap that around for grins but getting the Forte's upstairs was enough for the moment.

I bought the Forte II's for $500 in great shape a couple of years ago off Craigslist. Tweeked them with the help of Mr. Crites for new Crossovers and Titanium diaphraghms. Strangely enough purchased the Cornwall I's for $400, refinished them and at that time added new caps rather than the whole board. I have CT-125 Tweeters from Bob waiting under my tree for tomorrow.

I am genuinely happy with both but...................................have been eyeballing La Scala's for awhile................................which will lead to....................anyway you get the picture. I have genuinely wavered back and forth in my preference but again, the Cornwalls are still downstairs.

[Skyislander]

I'll weigh in, too. Although I have never listened to Forte's or Choruses, I have had KG4's and Cornwall I's and Cornwall II's. I sold the II's and kept the I's and gave one pair of KG4's to my nephew and another pair to my brother. I will say this: the Cornwall I's I bought were ridden hard and put away wet-- I could pretty much tell that by just looking at them. They had grilles that were not original, and plywood boards with wheels drilled into the bottoms (NIIIISHH). So if yours looks great on the outside, that's a great sign, in my book! Mine needed some work on the insides, not just the outsides. I soldered all new caps bought from B&K (Bob Crites) onto the B-two xover boards and had a spiritual moment when I hoooked them back up again and listened to the result. I also ended up replacing both woofers. Got Bass? I do, now-- these were also procured from Crites and were a great add. I eventually redid the tweeters, also-- again with replacements from Crites. I have the K55 midrange drivers and compared to the II's I prefer the sound of the K55's. That's just my own opinion, though. I will say that even a pair of KG4's that are souped up with brand new crossovers or even ti-drivers are no match for a functioning pair of Cornwall anythings. I'll argue the toss about K this or K that, but I cannot comment on Cornwall vs. Fortes or Chorus. I think it has to do with the timbre of the whole Heritage series. Will say the Cornwalls sound great at low volume. At anything more than half mast on your volume control, you will cause structural damage to all of your surrounding neighbors' units. But you will go out blissfully...... I also think the cabinets on the cornwalls are amazing. Not exactly sightful, but amazingly tough. I think the ones you are looking at may be the obvisously plywood construction and they are very durable. My Cornwall I's are connected to a Primaluna tube amp. I have never heard Cornwall iii's but I did have a pair of Heresy III's. Came a day when I had to decide between the Heresy III's and the Cornwall I's. Took me forever to make up my mind on that one. I would think that a pair of Cornwall III's would blow me away based on the Heresy III's. But, the durability of the veneering on the cabinets would make me terrified about ever moving. Whereas the Cornwall II's I had were oak-veneered and no matter what you did to them they just added character and still looked fine. And my current Cornwall I's ...well the condition they're in you couldn't really do very much more to them to make them look any worse. And actually a friend of mine on this forum has seen them and said he didn't think they were in all that bad a shape. Plus someday I'll get mine veneered. I think that buying a pair of pristine Cornwall I's would be a dream come true, but mine have tales to tell. I think they were used in live concerts like quartets performing in malls. I think they've been cranked up for everything from Mozart to the SuperBowl. Now they just sit in my living room and say, "hey would you turn me up a little I feel like stretching my legs....." I like that.

[colterphoto1]

forte II has Tractrix mid horn which doesn't get as squonky at high volumes as the CW, and it is narrower horizontal dispersion which decreases near-wall reflections (sometimes a problem with CW). Bass-wise pretty neck and neck. Both about the same value, forte II smaller footprint and slender look is a plus.

[HudsonValleyNoah]

I don/t know Michael, I have bought and sold ALL my Forte and forte II's for under $400 and would NEVER sell a Cornwall that low.

The PARTS are worth more than that!

I have only sold one Cornwall 1 and one Cornwall 2.

$1100 for the Cornwall one and $550 for the Cornwall 2.

Right now I have a nice pair of Forte II that I am willing to let go for less than $400...

I might be under pricing them but then why are they still here?

I don't know - they are a great deal for sure but times are tough.

I really don't think that the Corns and the Forte's that we are talking about are in the same price leauge...

Noah

[colterphoto1]

good points Noah. to be fair, my forte II's are minty oak, and the CW's I traded for them were BR models in not super shape- about $500 value for each set.

Pricing aside, I still like the forte II a lot, but then I have 11 CW's, so what does that tell you.

[pmsummer]

Cornwalls over Fortes, IMHO.

[stormin]

forte II has Tractrix mid horn which doesn't get as squonky at high volumes as the CW, and it is narrower horizontal dispersion which decreases near-wall reflections (sometimes a problem with CW).

That's it in a nutshell. Plus a much more defined bass.

All the rest is just the "Cornwall Occult" at work.