Heresy IIIs seem a bit too bright.

[andyo5]

Hi. I am new to this forum.

Well, after listening to a pair of Apogee Centaurs for almost 20 years, I sold them in order to find something with a better low end. I have a Velodyne FSR12 sub, but even so it can't compensate for the limited output of the 8" woofers in the Centaurs and still sound natural.

So I bought a pair of Heresy IIIs direct from Klipsch. They have about 100 hours of play time on them now.

I am powering them with a Bryston preamp and amp. I have a Roksan turntable, MacIntosh CD player and FM tuner, and a Polk XM receiver.

The Heresy's are very revealing and they soundstage quite easily. However, they seem somewhat bright and fatiguing to listen to for extended periods. Horns such as sax and trumpet seem particularly forward and blaring (I listen to alot of jazz). The bass is indeed better than with the Centaurs, but without the sub the HIIIs are a bit short in the lower regions.

I am considering sending the HIIIs back ( I still have a couple of weeks) and looking for a used pair of Fortes, Forte IIs, Chorus, or Chorus IIs. I am wondering whether these choices would seem less bright and more evenly balanced than the Heresy IIIs. I have considered the Cornwalls, but they are simply bigger than I want. The 7" narrower Choruses would be about the largest I would want.

Your thoughts?

Thanks.

[Max2]

I am running a solid copper speaker wire instead of a stranded cable. I needed to tone down mine as well. Dunno if it makes a huge difference, but it does seem a little smoother.

Also, there is a lot of mid and uppers with the H 3's due to the small cabinet and limited bass. If you swap out I wouldnt settle for less than the Chorus, Chorus II's or maybe the KLF-30's. Its hard to find the perfect balance. I loved my old Corwall II's, but the horns fell just short of the bass IMO.

[Ironsave]

The H III has much more performance (bass performance) than the H I or H IIs.

That being said; if you really need wall shaking bass; the Chorus', KG 5.5s, KLF 20/30s can do that. Forte's are better (bass) performing than Heresies as well.

Befor you give up; consider your speaker placement in the room; and the rooms characteristics as well....

Wood floors and little fabric contribute to brightness. Too far from the wall or up on a stand may contribute to lack of bass. I am not sure about your amp/preamp; but these too can change the way a speaker sounds.

Consider wall treatments or a throw rug on wood floors and bare walls.

My room is carpeted and my H Is are about 1" from the wall; angled about 15 degrees in; about 8 feet apart. Also mine are tilted up so tweeter sound is at ear level in the seated position.

I use a sub with mine usually, but it depends what type of music I am listening to. Also; I am using standard 12 gauge wire. Anything more expensive is a waste to me.

FWIW; even a pair of Cornwalls benefit from a good sub. I witnessed this in person about 2 months ago at a Klipsch Forum get together.

Good Luck.

[SWL]

Properly dealing with your room acoustics will solve most of your issues. Tubes on the mids-tweets will seal the deal. [Y]

[andyo5]

Ironsave, My Heresys are 7' apart, and the rear of each box is 21" from the rear wall. My sub is in the right corner. There isn't really a left corner, since the living room opens into the dining room on the left. My couch is 13' from the center plane of the speakers.

Here are some photos.

Not really looking to get into tubes.

Andy

[Ironsave]

Andy,

I believe you will see a difference with bass if you get them closer to the wall; (remove plants and tables).

Good Luck with the Wife Approval Factor (WAF) []

You might like them farther apart also.... (swap sub with speaker and rack with other speaker.).

It really is different strokes for different folks here.....

My setup is along the long wall; I am seated about 9 feet away from the speakers.

I can post a pic this evening.... At work now.

Good Luck!

[andyo5]

Hey Ironsave, I moved the table behind the left Heresy and moved both speakers within 14" of the rear wall. Actually, they sounded less good there, so I moved them back to the original position. I DID notice an improvement by removing the table that was behind the left speaker, though. Moving the fake plant behind the sub did not make an apparent difference. So I will leave it there in the interests of maintaining an acceptable WAF.

On another note (pun intended), I got out my handy dandy Radio Shack sound pressure level meter this morning, placed it three feet in front of the left speaker, turned off the subwoofer, and played the warble tone map from the Stereophile Test CD #2. What it showed (among other things) was a bump in the bass relative to the other frequencies from 100 HZ down to 70 Hz. After this, sound pressure gradually decayed until it reached 20Hz Interestingly, the speaker did produce measurable and audible sound at 20Hz.

At any rate, I responded by adjusting the low pass roll-off on my sub from 80 Hz where it was to 70Hz, to account for the new information gained by this morning's experiment. The result is that the setup sound much less harsh that it did before adjustment. It seems possible that the fatigue I was experiencing was due to a bass hump around 80 Hz, reinforced by my subwoofer.

Andy

[Ironsave]

Well.... You could try various positions.... (Again... each room is unique).

Hard to see but he is nearly touching the wall at the rear corner......

[Ironsave]

This is one of the front speakers along with the sub. About 8 feet, center to center.

[Ironsave]

Hey Ironsave, I moved the table behind the left Heresy and moved both speakers within 14" of the rear wall. Actually, they sounded less good there, so I moved them back to the original position. I DID notice an improvement by removing the table that was behind the left speaker, though. Moving the fake plant behind the sub did not make an apparent difference. So I will leave it there in the interests of maintaining an acceptable WAF. On another note (pun intended), I got out my handy dandy Radio Shack sound pressure level meter this morning, placed it three feet in front of the left speaker, turned off the subwoofer, and played the warble tone map from the Stereophile Test CD #2. What it showed (among other things) was a bump in the bass relative to the other frequencies from 100 HZ down to 70 Hz. After this, sound pressure gradually decayed until it reached 20Hz Interestingly, the speaker did produce measurable and audible sound at 20Hz. At any rate, I responded by adjusting the low pass roll-off on my sub from 80 Hz where it was to 70Hz, to account for the new information gained by this morning's experiment. The result is that the setup sound much less harsh that it did before adjustment. It seems possible that the fatigue I was experiencing was due to a bass hump around 80 Hz, reinforced by my subwoofer. Andy

Yeah, I currently cross my sub at 60hz. I also have my speakers set to "small" so I am not producing double bass (same hz from sub AND speaker; which can cancel each other out).

(I use a receiver; FYI).....

It took me 2 months to get my speaker position where I like it; then another 6 weeks to get my X over settings right (for me) when I got the receiver; and about a week to get the sub dialed where I like it.

I do use my receivers EQ with my speakers BTW; just knocking off a few DB from the mids; this helps blending the KV-4 and sounds better in 2 channel also.

(H Is were designedto be a center for larger Heritage speakers; so the mids are hotter then even your H IIIs.).

Hope this has helped. Glad you SPL meter did!!!! [Y]

[Groomlakearea51]

I know this is a heresy..... (whatta' pun!!!), try taking off the risers, and placing them on a couple thick phone books (to start with), and not "canted" up. Ideally is to get them in the corners angled at about 30 degrees, or aimed at a point where the imaginary line intersects about 3-4 feet behind the back wall of the listening room if you can do it. Then start experimenting with height of the speakers and the "attack angles".

One of the characteristics of the Heresy (and all of the heritage as you will eventually find out) is that they are at first, seemingly "bright". A product of the horns which are very accurate. "Revealing" comes to mind.... This can be disconcerting if you have not heard them before, or have little time with a horn loaded speaker.

The other thing that you really want to do is get the sub "centered", and well away from the Heresy's. You can get some comb filtering effects at about 60-80hz if they are right next to each other.

Also, try using your amp(s) "flat", as in no added bass, mid or treble. You might be surprised at what you get.

Just some thoughts.

[H]

[Chris A]

The Heresy's are very revealing and they soundstage quite easily. However, they seem somewhat bright and fatiguing to listen to for extended periods.

Where do you have the H-IIIs relative to your room boundaries?

Chris

[russ69]

The Heresy's are very revealing and they soundstage quite easily. However, they seem somewhat bright and fatiguing to listen to for extended periods.

Andy,

The Heresys are a neutral speaker system so if it's a little bright you might be hearing the Brystons. It's an easy fix. Mac2mc offered a good suggestion, zip cord sounds a little harsh to me, solid copper is much smoother. AQ type 2 or type 4 is a good choice. If you want to go much more towards the warm side (I did) use a Cardas 300B on your source. Pure sweetness after that. Of course, you'll be flamed for hearing the difference.

Thanx, Russ

[jacksonbart]

They were built by college graduates

[BigCliff]

They were built by college graduates

Or maybe the bulb should be of less wattage

[Dennie]

Hey Andy, I too think the room is an issue. Aren't they always! And the WAF can be very challenging.

But, if I were you......

I'd move the rack more towards the middle and that left speaker as far left as you can get it.

I'd move the plant and sub, and get the right speaker as far right as you can get it.

(I'd keep the sub off for a while, until you get used to the the new speakers, I mean 20hz is enough bass for now.)

Play around with toe-in and angle/tilt to see where it sounds best.

I'd also hang a couple of paintings or rugs on the walls to cut down on reflections.

If you're not used to horns, it will take a little while to get them (and the room) dialed in.

Keep us posted and congratulations on the Heresy III's!

Dennie

PS I'd also listen to Russ about the cables, he's been playing around with different ones for quite a while now! []

[russ69]

Well, on my Heresy system, I've had every one of the Kimber line on it, one Cardas and two Audio Quest interconnects. So yeah, I have tried a few.

Thanx, Russ

[fini]

Hey Andy, I too think the room is an issue. Aren't they always! And the WAF can be very challenging.

But, if I were you......

I'd move the rack more towards the middle and that left speaker as far left as you can get it.

I'd move the plant and sub, and get the right speaker as far right as you can get it.

I can see that there might be an aesthetic problem (good ol' WAF, possibly) if you move the system off-center of the bay window. Right now, symetry seems to rule. I guess it could stay centered with the window (and monitor) by moving the right speaker very close to the side wall, and matching that distance with the left (probably involves, as suggested, trading places with the speaker and the rack).

[Ironsave]

Guys,

I think Andy is sending them back.

(There is another post authored by him regarding the 30 day return policy).