DrWho Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 For what it's worth, I've found that the tapped horns have their own sound, which is different from that of direct radiators and classic horns (both folded and straight). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 Pete, I would not sell it, I would give it to you if you wanted it. However, it is already broken on one side and I doubt it would be worth the shipping etc. You can make your own in short order. Let me say that if I had to do it over again, I would select a 1/4" plywood or MDF. Then, use a 1/4" router bit to cut the rabbets. I had a heck of a time finding 3/4" bits to use. A lighter template would be much easier to handle during construction. Regarding the chest pounding bass issue, the subs are for LFE channel only. I wanted a sub that can hadle going below 20Hz and produce output without major bottom out issue. I looked at a lot of options, and had my attic been different I would have gone with a large IB setup. But, my attic limits my ability to properly make a good IB setup. For me, the DBB does a better job of giving me the bass I wanted for music. The RSW-15's pick up where the DBB starts to roll off down to a solid 20Hz. The TH subs will only be connected to LFE sound effects and not be used for music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete H Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 For what it's worth, I've found that the tapped horns have their own sound, which is different from that of direct radiators and classic horns (both folded and straight). That's what makes decisions regarding a build or and application tough, if you don't have one of everything on the shelf, which I'm slowly trying to accomplish. In the end it all comes down to my perception and what I enjoy listening to. I'm in the middle of a major remodling project that incorporates a HT room that is open to the entire main living space and I'm done with the kitchen framing and moved into the living (HT room) and have to decide which direction to go regarding the LF and there are just a ton of options out there that I need to make decisions on from limited exposure on different concepts regarding clean, low distortion LF reproduction. This forum is a scale that on one side is Occam's Razor and on the other is " I don't care what is involved or what it cost, if it's better. I love to hate this forum![] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete H Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Regarding the chest pounding bass issue, the subs are for LFE channel only. I wanted a sub that can hadle going below 20Hz and produce output without major bottom out issue. I looked at a lot of options, and had my attic been different I would have gone with a large IB setup. But, my attic limits my ability to properly make a good IB setup. I'm in the same place right now trying to decide on the LF for my HT and I understand as we all want to step back when we're done and say "Wait until you hear this" You're doing a great job and I'm looking forward to your summation on the build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 Pete, I understand all about the different options. After many days reading about LFE type subs, I worked hard to install a Infinate Baffle (IB) setup. Personally, I thought it was the way to go. Unfortunately, once I measured the space above my room, in the attic, I could not locate the IB sub in the front part of the room due to space limitations directly above my room. I wish I had a place where I could install an IB. It would definately be the way to go. This TH project was my second choice and I selected this vs. the HT Tuba due to the lower physical profile of the TH. The Tuba would have made my La Scala look small. I should have some plots and personal impressions of the response in my room. I am hopeful these will work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 Finally got to work on the TH subs today. I must be learning something along the way, they worked first time I fired them up and didn't blow anything up. I used the brand new Behringer ep4000 and now have to replace the cooling fan "jet engine". I had ordered replacement fans for all my amps a while back, so that project is for tomorrow. The speakon connectors worked great, although they are a pain in the arse to put together. Here is a closeup of one of the subs with connections to the female speakeon connector. I chose to put the connector near the horn exit so as not to make any holes in the high pressure section of the horn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 Here are the twins in the proposed location, surrounding the La Scala. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 I had to play with the amp sensitivity a while since these things, together, were outrageously loud. I ended up with the sensitivity at absolute minimum on the Behringer ep4000. This is the first REW plot with the mic at the sitting position. Really, not too bad considering the frequency range we are working with. Seems like my bass traps are working rather well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 For comparisson, here was the REW sweep I did outside before painting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 Here is a litte EQ application. That nasty room mode near 90Hz needs a little work. Otherwise, I will have to work on the room somewhat and decide whether or not to leave the RSW-15s where they are, or move them. Then, run Audyssey Pro and then I will be able to do a true listening evaluation. I will say, that as they sit, they vibrate the crap out of the room! My room is on a second floor, and it felt like the entire floor was moving. The system delay, BTW is right at 22 ms. I have to figure out if I want to adjust all the time delays in all the drivers, or just leave the system alone and let Audyssey adjust the delay for multi-channel movie use. Again, the subs will be strictly for LFE channel use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 Question for the experts. Do I need to setup a subsonic filter on this set of subs? I will have to do it on the DCX if I will need such a filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Do I need to setup a subsonic filter on this set of subs?My XTi's roll off by themselves, but Danley recommends a 15 Hz, 24 dB/Octave Butterworth high pass. I don't think that you'll have any issues not using the high pass - you'll hear the drivers bottoming out before other bad things start to happen... Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I had to play with the amp sensitivity a while since these things, together, were outrageously loud. [H]You'll get used to them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 I had to play with the amp sensitivity a while since these things, together, were outrageously loud. You'll get used to them... Thanks Chris. Mr. Hurd agrees with your comment on a subsonic filter. I am still working on getting things set up enough to run Audyssey. I just finished putting the new fans on the amps. Now they are sooooo quiet! Back to work.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted January 15, 2011 Moderators Share Posted January 15, 2011 Then, run Audyssey Pro and then I will be able to do a true listening evaluation. I will say, that as they sit, they vibrate the crap out of the room! My room is on a second floor, and it felt like the entire floor was moving. Rudy81: I had to play with the amp sensitivity a while since these things, together, were outrageously loud. You'll get used to them This is funny, hard to believe from little 8" drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 Just finished running Audyssey with the new subs in place. Audyssey Pro had no problem with the timing or distances. Here's the interesting point. When I used my SVS 20-39PC+, Audyssey always measured the distance at 23.2 feet. Now, with the DIY TH subs, it reads it at 21.4. I fully expected the distance to read longer due to the horn path. I ran the first 3 runs a few times to verify the distance and it always came up around 21.4'. Interesting. Tonight we have a few movies to watch, so I'll be providing my impressions tomorrow sometime. You are correct, for four little 8" drivers, they are LOUD! Very efficient in that enclosure. I still have the amp gain all the way down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 Watched "Machete" tonight and have two things to say. First, crappy sound effects, so not good to test the subs. Two, what a STUPID movie!!!!! After wasting my time with that, I put in one of my all time favorites for LFE information, "Top Gun". So far, all I can say is WOW! That movie in BD has a superb LFE channel with lots of LF information. The subs performed effortlessly and were certainly superior to my previous LF experience. I still need to live with them for a while and do some more listening, but so far these are excellent for what I intended. I have no idea how they would perform with music, but based on their use by others for music, I assume they do well in that area too. I had the system up pretty loud during the F-14 afterburner launch scenes and some of the explosions and did not note any distortion or strain. I suppose the Behringer ep4000 is barely breaking a sweat. The fan I put in makes the amp almost silent. I like that amp so much I am considering getting two more and using them for my DBB bass bins and my RSW-15's. At the rate I'm going, I may be having a gear sale in the near future. Anyway, thus far, very impressive performance. The drivers haven't even been broken in yet. I need to get U571 and a couple of other LF rich movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Watched David Gilmour in concert on BD and it was outstanding. Also watched the latest incarnation of 'Resident Evil', which has lots of LF and it was just outstanding. I am going to say that this build was very successful. No problem keeping up with the rest of the sound system. Very clean, efficient and dynamic. Audyssey seems to have handled the time issue with no problems. These are keepers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 [Y] Ya gotta love it when a plan comes together. Have you seen Cloverfield? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 I did a long time ago. Yes, I do love it when a plan comes together. This was a huge leap of faith to go for a dual build without ever having listened to one. However, the other guys on the forum that built some swear by them.....and now I know why! I would have never guessed a sub with such little drivers would put out that much LF. Heck, I was looking at four 18" drivers for an IB until I realized I didn't have enough room along with the potential temperature problems with a hole in my ceiling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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