psg Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 After wasting my time with that, I put in one of my all time favorites for LFE information, "Top Gun". So far, all I can say is WOW! That movie in BD has a superb LFE channel with lots of LF information. I don't have the BR for it, but after reading that i put in an old (full screen!) DVD that has a 6.1 DTS track. The afterburners sure are impressive! Congrats on the build!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Thank you. I have been spoiled ever since I made the move to BD and the new HD audio formats. I rarely watch a standard DVD any more. They just don't measure up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 So true. The lossless sound tracks are so much more dynamic. Now i've got the urge to buy that movie on BR (an I can't stand Tom Cruise anymore). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Just finished running Audyssey with the new subs in place. Audyssey Pro had no problem with the timing or distances. Here's the interesting point. When I used my SVS 20-39PC+, Audyssey always measured the distance at 23.2 feet. Now, with the DIY TH subs, it reads it at 21.4. I fully expected the distance to read longer due to the horn path. I ran the first 3 runs a few times to verify the distance and it always came up around 21.4'. Interesting. Tonight we have a few movies to watch, so I'll be providing my impressions tomorrow sometime. You are correct, for four little 8" drivers, they are LOUD! Very efficient in that enclosure. I still have the amp gain all the way down. What's the maximum delay setting it will allow? I'm curious if it is off by 360 degrees because it ran out of room? 80Hz is about 12ft...will it do 36ft? You're also going to have some signal delay with the DSP on your mains. The Dx38 is in the 2ms range, which would be 2 feet....I don't know what your Ashly is, but it's probably similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted January 17, 2011 Moderators Share Posted January 17, 2011 Glad to hear you like them, you never know what others will think because there are so many things that can make something poor in one room and great in another, not even counting what you are use to listening to. [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete H Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 So what are you building next[], just kidding. I'm very curious as to what you think of them vs. the RSW 15's? I'm only talking about A/B with music only. I know you didn't build them for that purpose, but I'm interested in your opinion. One more great build under your belt.[Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I did a long time ago. If you weren't impressed with the LFE track before, you might want to watch it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 What's the maximum delay setting it will allow? I'm curious if it is off by 360 degrees because it ran out of room? 80Hz is about 12ft...will it do 36ft? You're also going to have some signal delay with the DSP on your mains. The Dx38 is in the 2ms range, which would be 2 feet....I don't know what your Ashly is, but it's probably similar. DrWho, are you asking about Audyssey, or the Ashly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 Glad to hear you like them, you never know what others will think because there are so many things that can make something poor in one room and great in another, not even counting what you are use to listening to. Very true, you never know how things will sound in a particular room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 So what are you building next, just kidding. I'm very curious as to what you think of them vs. the RSW 15's? I'm only talking about A/B with music only. I know you didn't build them for that purpose, but I'm interested in your opinion. One more great build under your belt. Who knows. I'm pretty thrilled with the setup right now. As far as an A/B with music only, I have not done that. Once I get everything done it will be easy to swap out the amp leads and try it out. Tough to say which will sound better. I'm really attached to the RSW-15's for low end duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete H Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Who knows. I'm pretty thrilled with the setup right now. As far as an A/B with music only, I have not done that. Once I get everything done it will be easy to swap out the amp leads and try it out. Tough to say which will sound better. I'm really attached to the RSW-15's for low end duty.I understand that completely but I think it would make for an interesting comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 Pete: I just couldn't stand it, so I looked into your question of the TH build vs. the RSW-15 for music only. The caveat is that the RSW-15's are time aligned and setup to work with my DBB bass bins from 50Hz on down to 20Hz. Just for grins, I listened to various songs that I know have some good low bass. I then plugged the RSW-15 leads into the DIY-TH amp. My totally un-scientific impression is that the RSW-15 is still better for music than the DIY-TH horns. The RSWs are punchier and 'faster' in attack with the sound more localized to the front of the room with excellent imaging. The DIY-TH, are very, very respectable. They have plenty of output and their bass seems to fill the entire room in a more dispersed way. They seem a little less immediate, but that may well be because they are not time aligned with the mains....or I should say, the mains are not time aligned with the TH subs. Now, the sub placement is totally different for these subs. My RSWs are sitting just behind my DBB bass bins. The DIY-THs are in the center along the front wall, surrounding my center La Scala. I would think that if you used the DIY-TH for music you will not be dissapointed with the output. But, in my very un-scientific way I have to say that my RSW-15s still rule for music....as they always have. In particular, one great song to compare LF output in music is the Eagles "Hotel California" in the Hell Freezes Over album. At high SPLs, they will shake the foundation of your house. Of course, the RSW's can't hold a candle to these subs when it comes to true movie LF output. They are just awesome for that specific use. I hope you do the same comparisson, so let us know. Now, go get that lumber and get to cuttin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete H Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Pete: I just couldn't stand it, so I looked into your question of the TH build vs. the RSW-15 for music only. The caveat is that the RSW-15's are time aligned and setup to work with my DBB bass bins from 50Hz on down to 20Hz. Just for grins, I listened to various songs that I know have some good low bass. I then plugged the RSW-15 leads into the DIY-TH amp. My totally un-scientific impression is that the RSW-15 is still better for music than the DIY-TH horns. The RSWs are punchier and 'faster' in attack with the sound more localized to the front of the room with excellent imaging. The DIY-TH, are very, very respectable. They have plenty of output and their bass seems to fill the entire room in a more dispersed way. They seem a little less immediate, but that may well be because they are not time aligned with the mains....or I should say, the mains are not time aligned with the TH subs. Now, the sub placement is totally different for these subs. My RSWs are sitting just behind my DBB bass bins. The DIY-THs are in the center along the front wall, surrounding my center La Scala. I would think that if you used the DIY-TH for music you will not be disappointed with the output. But, in my very un-scientific way I have to say that my RSW-15s still rule for music....as they always have. In particular, one great song to compare LF output in music is the Eagles "Hotel California" in the Hell Freezes Over album. At high SPLs, they will shake the foundation of your house. Of course, the RSW's can't hold a candle to these subs when it comes to true movie LF output. They are just awesome for that specific use. I hope you do the same comparison, so let us know. Now, go get that lumber and get to cuttin'. ROTFLMAO doesn't even come close to describing the " I was sure he would do this, regardless of the build parameters he set (HT only)" I say that as I have been listening to the Cornscala's with one of the 15's for hours (music only) and all I can say is that if you don't have a clean recording of Supertramp's Crime of the Century, you need to go to the store and try and get one and send the wife and kids out for a few minutes and pis& off the neighbors. Horns and great subs love Supertramp. Got to go, the GF is calling (had to install a flashing red light in conjunction with the phone line) and this is a man night so she's not allowed to come over. [] u da man!!!!!!!!! I'm still laughing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 You knew I was going to try didn't you? [] OK, I was listening to YES, but I have now switched over to Crime of the Century and funny enough, tonight is batchelor night around here as well. Dogs think I'm crazy.....all they know is that the stereo starts blasting every time the family leaves! Neighbors, what neighbors, we don't need no stinkin neighbors! I could shoot a cannon and my neighbors couldn't hear it. Man, I am still love with the performance of JC's DBBs! They are giving me exactly the chest thumpin', make my heart skip a beat bass I was looking for. BTW, one of the things I learned after all my crazy upgrades and changes was that subwoofers are a MUST for music. No, I don't care what speakers you have, they all need help between 20Hz and 30Hz+. I was missing out on a lot of bass eventhough I have had Belles, La Scalas, Khorns, Hereseys, Cornwalls etc. The RSW-15's have shown me what I was missing. Of course, I have gone to the dark side with active crossovers, pro amps and other such blasphemy. "Living in the dark side, and loving it"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete H Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 BTW, one of the things I learned after all my crazy upgrades and changes was that subwoofers are a MUST for music. No, I don't care what speakers you have, they all need help between 20Hz and 30Hz+. I was missing out on a lot of bass eventhough I have had Belles, La Scalas, Khorns, Hereseys, Cornwalls etc. The RSW-15's have shown me what I was missing. I couldn't agree with you more after last night and hours of listening and dialing in the sub. When I got done with the Cornscala's I didn't have a lot of time to do anything more than listen to them along with the other mains I have, but they really didn't have any Sub time and last night was the first time they did. It gave me new appreciation for the RSW. Where do you have the RSW's crossed at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 I have the DBB to RSW crossed at 45Hz right now. I had it a little higher before, but have been playing with it to 'dial it in'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 The DIY-THs are in the center along the front wall, surrounding my center La Scala. Actually, there is a JAES paper that describes the performance of subs in various locations of the room, AND with different listening positions (1999, "Subwoofers in Small Listening Rooms" Tomas Salava, ETOS Acoustic Ltd.) The bottom line: "...This author...affirms that placing subwoofers...in corners is sonically advantageous especially in small rectangular rooms [i.e., home-theater-sized rooms]. The reason to place subwoofers in corners, especially in small listening rooms, seems quite simple: all the room modes are fully excited and can be transfer-active. The room gain (as some authors call it) obtained at lowest frequencies by this placement can be much [more] easily and conveniently equalized (if necessary at all)..."Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 Chris: Thank you for that reminder. I beleive I have come across that paper sometime. When things settle down around here, i.e. after I clean up my mess in the shop, I might experiment a bit with corner placement. I put them where they are after a recommendation from Mike Hurd. His suggestion is to keep them together, so they act as one. I can certainly move them to either front corner if I need to. At some point I will have to try that and do something like you see in the attached drawing I found somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 His suggestion is to keep them together, so they act as one. Interesting...Toole recommends placing subs all over the room...[:|] I think that Toole was trying to get relatively level low bass response all over the length and width of a potential listening area - something that I don't even try to do. The effect of putting them with your fronts so that the bands above ~50 Hz will coincide with the same location--due to directionality of human hearing--is something to consider also. Trades, trades, trades... Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 If and when I try the corners, it will not be an easy proposition for me. I will have to remove the large 8' corner bass traps in order to place the subs in the very corner of the room. So, it will be a project for one of those rainy days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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