$500 Budget, Build, Buy or Bust? Looking for Suggestions

[Pete H]

You can build two TH-SPUD designs for that price in materials, and they will do very well in one or two corners - no problem on filling the 9000 ft^3 room with bass. Ask Rudy81 - he's built two (and so have I). I don't believe that they are difficult to build - maybe easier than the Tuba design. They will appear less obtrusive than the Tuba, for sure. The output from two SPUDs should be able to disorient the audience's equilibria...

Chris

That may be an option too. Ultimately, my friend will decide on the design since he has to live with his wife[]. I went ahead and ordered plans for some of the Tuba's, but haven't seen plans for the SPUDs. Are those plans available to purchase somewhere? I have another (crazy?) question regarding those SPUDs and was wondering if it would be an acceptable application to build something like that and use it as the base for theater seating? That question is for a completely different application on a remodel job of my own. Thanks for the input.

[Chris A]

Are those plans available to purchase somewhere?

Free of charge: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1698483

The drivers are two each: Tang Band W8-740P (8" diameter): http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-854&FTR=w8%20740&CFID=542086&CFTOKEN=79351136

I have another (crazy?) question regarding those SPUDs and was wondering if it would be an acceptable application to build something like that and use it as the base for theater seating?

That's what they were designed to do by Tom Danley (i.e., the "Couch Sub"). They are extremely sturdy and can be finished with urethane paint or even carpeting to your own needs. They would make a great "second row riser".

Chris

[Pete H]

Thanks for the link Chris. I've downloaded the plans. Has anyone found any problems with any dimensions?

[Pete H]

Bust.

Do it yourself is the best bang for your buck and you can certainly do MUCH better than the Sony he had. I can't think of any $500.00 build that would fill that room though. Spend the $500.00 on an amp and driver(s) and build.

I've been reading some threads and rereading some others and this whole IB thing has my interest sparked (not for my friend but for my HT) I went to the link you provided in PSG's build thread "Infinate Wak Job IB Cult Build Site"[] or whatever it was called. ROTFLMAO and now I'm getting the bug to build too. I absolutely hate distortion in low end, dating back to building a custom sub box for my dually a few years ago with 4 eights in a big box when I was told to put one big sub enclosure in to get door shaking bass. Since I'm in the framing process on the complete remodel of the house, I can discharge the rear wave to the garage area of the basement and can mount drivers where I want, but the discharge of the rear wave will have to move 90 degrees to get to the garage area. I have a bunch of questions regarding the optimum set up since I can't do a manifold array in the garage area due to clearance, so the drivers will have to be mounted in the HT room. I'm going to get a bit long winded here, but that is what happens when your diving into a new area. The HT room is open to other living spaces (kitchen and dining) and the total area is 900 sq' and roughly 7500 cu' and I can place the drivers between the mains. If I could pull this off with 2 drivers it would work out best, but 4 is possible too, so the other question would be, given the basics that I've spelled out, is this an application for IB that I can achieve my design goals, which first and foremost would be to get better (lower distortion and lower response) than my 2 RSW 15's) and to be able to have a built in look that I would prefer. I will probably put a couple of SPUD's under the upper tier in the seating area which will be about 17' from the 120" screen and the front speakers and front subs. I know that I'm throwing alot of crap out here, but your the man on this forum when it comes to this application and I'm in the process of building that front area right now, so I truely appreciate your opinion.

[CECAA850]

OK, Pete, I'll try to answer some of your questions, but if I miss something, write back (preferably with breaks between the questions[ )

A manifold and an array are 2 different things. A manifold is where the drivers are mounted to a "box" and the open end of the box fires into the room. An array (which is what I built) is where each driver is mounted to the wall and fires into the room. From your description, I think you are considering a manifold. I would need to see a layout to actually comprehend the room. There are advantages and disadvantages to both designs.

A manifold with 2 drivers will not be enough in that room. In fact, at certain frequencies it wouldn't surprise me if your 2 RSW15's would have more output than a manifold with two 18" drivers. The IB would go noticeably lower however. You'll definately need 4 18's.

You don't want to mix horn loaded subs and direct radiating subs in the same system. It doesn't work. Go with one or the other.

I don't know where you are located, but it would be great if you could go listen to an IB. There used to be a member map at the cult, but if you start a thread with "I'd like to hear an IB and I'm in the xxxxx area" someone would surely invite you over. Again, I don't know where you live, but if you are anywhere even remotely close you are welcome to come by and have a listen. The IB excells in music AND HT. The best way to describe the sound of an IB is "invisible". It just sounds like my RF-7's have a limitless bottom end.

Carl

[Pete H]

Thanks Carl, I will join that group and post on the forum. My brain was going a mile a minute last night when I was typing. When you get into such large drivers with long throws do they have any problem keeping up with rapid fire bass when listening to audio? Just one question.[^o)]

[CECAA850]

Absolutely not. Bass notes are in the area where there's little cone movement. You really don't see a lot of cone movement unless you are playing something that's really low and really loud. That's the reason you use multiple drivers, they play cleanly because they are operating well within their limits. There's also no colorization from a box (or horn.......no flames please!!!!).

[Coytee]

For this application the WAF isn't important (we aren't going to ask and she works for me )

Just noting that we seem to have a hostage situation... [:#]

[CECAA850]

For this application the WAF isn't important (we aren't going to ask and she works for me )

Just noting that we seem to have a hostage situation...

Sounds like a case of audial harassment.

[Chris A]

Has anyone found any problems with any dimensions?

Not me.

Note that dtel and Rudy81 moved their driver access ports/connectors into an easier-to-build spot (i.e., just like the Danley DTS-10 access ports).

Note that Hoffman's Iron Law applies to subwoofers as well. The use of conventional folded horns give you as much as 10 dB of increase in output over direct radiators (i.e., using the same driver and the same input power), or said another way, horn-loaded woofers will have -10dB the distortion of direct-radiating woofers, given the same driver/power (...a quote from PWK). Tapped horns have higher relative output over conventional folded horns by as much as 3 dB, i.e., twice the acoustic power output.

The real issue is "how much room are you willing to fork over to your subs?" In my case, I'm not willing to give up the floor space and an available corner that is required for the IB Tuba horn geometry or other conventional horn-loaded sub. The SPUDs are very compact and their form factor is very easy to work with, in fact synergistic with, corner-loaded Jubs.

My SPUDs also acoustically integrate seamlessly with the Jubs - a cannot tell when the subs take over from the Jub bass bins - they sound like Jub bass bins. That means: "...the subs are always on-- HT or music...". The SPUDs also fit into my room, and their cost is more than an order of magnitude lower than any commercially bought sub approaching the SPUD's output.

Chris

[CECAA850]

The real issue is "how much room are you willing to fork over to your subs?" In my case, I'm not willing to give up the floor space and an available corner that is required for the IB horn geometry or other conventional horn-loaded sub.

Disclaimer: Chris, I enjoy your posts and have learned a lot from them.

Disclaimer off.

I don't really understand this statement. IB's take up no floor space whatsoever and do not have a horn. They also do not need a corner.

Typo maybe?

Carl

[Chris A]

Sorry - insert "Tubas" for "IBs".

[CECAA850]

Sorry - insert "Tubas" for "IBs".

Ahhhh got it.

[psg]

My SPUDs also acoustically integrate seamlessly with the Jubs - a cannot tell when the subs take over from the Jub bass bins - they sound like Jub bass bins. That means: "...the subs are always on-- HT or music...".

I was also very surprised with this result using the Tuba HT and Klipschorns. I can change crossover points up to 80 Hz and not notice a different sound, something i couldn't do with my prior Hsu sub.

[Chris A]

I was also very surprised with this result using the Tuba HT and Klipschorns. I can change crossover points up to 80 Hz and not notice a different sound, something i couldn't do with my prior Hsu sub.

I think that this is very key - and many people have fallen into the thinking that they need a "music sub" and/or a "HT" sub - something that says to me that they aren't used to hearing good infrasonic bass speakers (i.e., horn-loaded subwoofers).

I leave my subs on all the time - because it doesn't sound right when I turn them off...

Chris

[Pete H]

I was also very surprised with this result using the Tuba HT and Klipschorns. I can change crossover points up to 80 Hz and not notice a different sound, something i couldn't do with my prior Hsu sub.

I think that this is very key - and many people have fallen into the thinking that they need a "music sub" and/or a "HT" sub - something that says to me that they aren't used to hearing good infrasonic bass speakers (i.e., horn-loaded subwoofers).

I leave my subs on all the time - because it doesn't sound right when I turn them off...

Chris

Thanks again to everyone for the information and opinions as always they are appreciated. I stopped by my buddy Tom's yesterday and hooked up my Velodyne to get him by for now and he decided to go ahead with the 2 SPUD's and the plan is to stand them on end and incorporated them into an entertainment center to hold the TV and equipment. These will probably be finished in oak and stained to match the trim in the house. Should be a very interesting project. I ordered more BB yesterday as we are going to build 4 at one time and that will give me a chance to play with two of them while I'm trying to make final decisions on my main HT.

Chris, to your point about not needing different subs for HT and music, it looks like Rudy will be able to really give a great opinion on that this weekend. I know he said that his SPUD's are strictly for HT, but I know he's going to A/B them with the RSW 15's, he's not going to be able to resist.[]

[dtel]

I really like the Spud, I have not said anything in this thread because for one I have not heard a Tuba sub or an IB sub to compare.

I think overall a IB sub could be the best but you need the right conditions for it to work. I considered the IB but did not have the right connection of space from the listening room to the backspace required, a basement could work perfectly, if I had one.

I think the spud's will surprise you, I started with one and have not built the other yet. The way it sounds I am in no rush to build another, but will eventually. I have it in the corner of a room 24' wide and 34' long, on the 24' wall. With music playing it vibrates things in the whole area, a china cabinet or the far wall vibrates in 4 or 5 different frequencies during music. I have not fixed it yet because I will have to pad everything in it.

I also like the way it sounds with music, I have some big mains so I only use it at 40 Hz and below

I only use a plate amp that is about 150 wpc and the volume is set about at about 11 with 12 being straight up, half way.

[Pete H]

Does anyone have any suggestions on an external amp that will comfortably run both SPUD's and be adjustable like the plate amps will?

[Rudy81]

Pete, you can always buy a plate amp from parts express and build a small, separate enclosure for it. Sit it next to the sub or near your gear, it doesn't matter. All the benefits of the plate amp and no fuss. I am guessing you don't need 1000 watts or anything massive with a TH sub. Good luck.

[Pete H]

Pete, you can always buy a plate amp from parts express and build a small, separate enclosure for it. Sit it next to the sub or near your gear, it doesn't matter. All the benefits of the plate amp and no fuss. I am guessing you don't need 1000 watts or anything massive with a TH sub. Good luck.

I've seen a couple of builds done that way, but for my friends two, I was hoping to accomplish that with one amp and try and keep things as simple as possible. The only stand alone "Sub Amp", that I've been able to find was through parts express and two of them would run around $800, which is not in his budget at this time.