Rudy81 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I thought I'd open up this can of worms since I am looking around for some other pro amps to power my HF drivers. I am using the Behringer EP4000 to run all my subs and my DBB bass bins. (I replace my Crown K1 with one of these amp and am very pleased with the sound for the bass bins.) I like those amps thus far and they are doing a great job. The price is so attractive I started considering using one for the high end of my main speakers. BTW, my mains are actively crossed two way. Since I have three EP4000's sitting around I tried one on the HF drivers. Overall, I have to say they are really not too bad. I have been using a Hafler P1500 on those drivers but am considering something newer. I spent about an hour going back and forth between the Behringer and the Hafler. The Hafler has a slightly more laid back, more pleasing sound. Some folks have already recommended the QSC PLX series for better quality HF sound. I was wondering what other options you guys might suggest and I would appreciate the discussion on using pro amps for the high end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Another possibility is the Precedent series from AB International. They are sometimes dirt cheap on eBay, with the later versions of the precedent series being the more desirable. Keep in mind they are getting older so replacing the electrolytics is probably in order (and why not bypass a few caps while you are at it ... the list goes on). Yet another possibility (especially for bass) is the Altec 9440 or is it 94??) amp. A nice strong bass, and reasonably priced on the used market. Some of the older Crest amps are good (I said SOME of the OLDER), but they are a bit more expensive. BTW, I am not a big fan of the QSC for home audio. There is a good amount of stuff out there and I have certainly not heard all of these extensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 Tom, anything in particular you didn't like about the QSC? What models have you heard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I believe the Crown xti series is also a pro amp recommended for home use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 The biggest problem I have with pro amps is the fan noise. It just drives me nuts. My system is dead quiet and the fan noise wrecks the whole thing. I never had that problem with vinyl, the surface noise hides the fan but with a CD it's too loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I spent about an hour going back and forth between the Behringer and the Hafler. The Hafler has a slightly more laid back, more pleasing sound. I use EP2000's on the woofers of my KLF-30's with tubes on the mids-highs. I had the opportunity to borrow a Mac 2500 (500 watts @ 8 ohms) and do a side-by-side comparison. That Mac is a beast of an amp and weighs in at 150 lbs! My impressions were similar to yours. The Mac had a fuller, richer tone to the bass. More laid back. The EP2000 sounded somewhat thinner in comparison. However, the EP2000 was faster and tighter.... in no way lacking in the power dept. (400 watts @ 8 ohms). I'm able to surpass the "fullness" of the Mac amp by using an SVS PB-12 Ultra/2.......So the combination of the fast, tight EP200's on the 30's woofs and the room filling deep bass of the SVS works well for me. Aren't the Behringer amps basically just knock-offs of the QSC's? Same design....cheaper parts making them more affordable? I gotta say, the "bang for your buck" is an understatement for these amps when using them for the grunt work. Not a lot of finesse but plenty of muscle. [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 The biggest problem I have with pro amps is the fan noiseI installed whisper quiet fans from Digi-key. $8.00 a piece if I remember correctly. Super easy to install. The fans are dead silent at the listening position. I have to get about 2 feet away before I can hear them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 The biggest problem I have with pro amps is the fan noise. It just drives me nuts. My system is dead quiet and the fan noise is wrecks the whole thing. I never had that problem with vinyl, the surface noise hides the fan but with a CD it's too loud. The fan issue is really not a problem with the fan mod. First thing I did was replace the fans on my EP4000s and they are quiet enough that I had to get really close to one to make sure they were working. I know a lot of folks bash Behringer and I don't know if the reputation is deserved or not. In my little time with the EP4000s, I have to say these are very good amps, particularly when you consider the cost to watt ratio. I am purely going by how it sounds in a very unscientific opinion. For LF, these seem to be a must buy for the home if you want to push big woofers around. For HF, I am going to have to give it another listen when I have time before making a final decision. As I indicated in my first post, there was a difference, but it was not huge. I also wonder, when comparing an old amp to a new one if the more 'laid back' sound is really a lack of frequency range due to aging parts. As far as Behringer being a copy of QSC, I don't know.....but yes, they look similar. Parts wise, I don't have two amps to compare, but I would think if the copy is that close there would be lawsuits flying back and forth all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 The biggest problem I have with pro amps is the fan noise. It just drives me nuts. My system is dead quiet and the fan noise is wrecks the whole thing. I never had that problem with vinyl, the surface noise hides the fan but with a CD it's too loud. I agree with Russ. My solution....get some amps that are convection cooled and get rid of the fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 For my 4-way MCM system I am running a QSC PLX2 1804 on the Titan 48 subs, and a QSC PLX2 1104 on the MWM bass cabinets. I am using McIntosh amps on the mid-bass and HF horns. I tried the 1104 on the HF horns and they were no good in my opinion. At least I wouldn't use them that way. They lack detail and don't come anywhere near the quality of sound of my rebuilt vintage McIntosh MC2100 and MC250s (bridged). They sure have a lot of power, and clean quiet power too. I will say that. They are perfect for my LF needs. Yes.......the fan noise is there but I have other noise in the room as well and I just turn it to the point where you hear nothing but music. I will say once again I was very pleasantly surpised at how quiet the QSC PLX2 amps are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I installed whisper quiet fans from Digi-key. $8.00 a piece if I remember correctly. Super easy to install. The fans are dead silent at the listening position. I'm sensitive to fan noise, even the super quiet ones. My CD player is the loudest component and I can hear that if it's real quiet. Hard drives are like WAY TOO LOUD. Maybe it's just me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I'm sensitive to fan noise, even the super quiet ones. My CD player is the loudest component and I can hear that if it's real quiet. Hard drives are like WAY TOO LOUD. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I'm sensitive to fan noise, even the super quiet onesI can understand that. My refrigerator in an adjacent room about 35' away is not loud but annoying to me when I'm listening at low levels......so is the furnace in the basement. I guess I'm somewhat sensitive as well but my listening position is 10 feet away from the amps and I can't notice them unless my head is about 2 feet from them. Even then it is very quiet. I'm thankful for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 My CD player is the loudest component and I can hear that if it's real quiet. Does your cd player have a fan or are you talking about the internal mechanisms that are audible? I just dampened my tube cd player with positive results. Sorry for getting off track Rudy.....[:$] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 Sorry for getting off track Rudy..... No worries. Had I not been able to swap out the fans on the Behringers, I'd be complaining about fans as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 As far as Behringer being a copy of QSC, I don't know.....but yes, they look similar. Parts wise, I don't have two amps to compare, but I would think if the copy is that close there would be lawsuits flying back and forth all the time. Under the hood, the Tapco Juice J-2500, the QSC RMX 2450, Behringer Ep2500 / 4000 the Mackie FR2500 and a model from Alto are almost dead identical in layout and parts. The picture is of a Tapco, QSC and the Behringer. Tapco / Mackie have the largest diameter torroids of the bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I'm much more concered about the noise coming out of my speakers as opposed to room noise. Hiss, hum and other junk coming out the speakers at idle or otherwise bugs the heck out of me. I'm not sure why fan noise doesn't bother me that much. Of course I wish the room were silent. But a quiet system is paramount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Crown K2 (top) and Dayton SA-1000 (bottom) for further reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 Under the hood, the Tapco Juice J-2500, the QSC RMX 2450, Behringer Ep2500 / 4000 the Mackie FR2500 and a model from Alto are almost dead identical in layout and parts. The picture is of a Tapco, QSC and the Behringer. Tapco / Mackie have the largest diameter torroids of the bunch. They sure are all very similar! Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 I'm much more concered about the noise coming out of my speakers as opposed to room noise. Hiss, hum and other junk coming out the speakers at idle or otherwise bugs the heck out of me. I'm not sure why fan noise doesn't bother me that much. Of course I wish the room were silent. But a quiet system is paramount. When I hooked up one of the new EP4000s, that was the first thing I listened for. It was very quiet, and no different than the Hafler I have on there now. Perhaps the Behringer quality cotrol has come up a bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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