Frustrated....

[Dsrtjeeper]

Just to give everyone an idea; I have been listening in a 12'x10' room since '93. I've been an audiophile for nearly 30 years and have had the good fortune to own alot of good equipment. I recently got on the Klipsch bandwagon after purchasing a 3 watt/channel SET amp. I first purchased Cornwalls because they were cheap. Then I purchased a mint pair of Quartets. In my room I end up with one note bass and very poor midbass/kickdrums. The bass seems slow without slam. I even hooked up my B&K 150 watt/channel SS amp with the same results. Don't get me wrong; I'm wowed by the Klipsch speakers. They are better than any speaker I have heard or owned except the bass region. The room just loads with excessive bass and drives me crazy. I plan on adding some polyfill inside the cabinets and raising the speakers off the floor. I've never heard such detail and natural mids in all my life. I just can't seem to get accurate bass in my room. I've never had this problem before with any other speaker design. I'm at a loss here. Basically; the Cornwalls have the same bass characteristics as the Quartets. HELP!!!

[JJkizak]

IMHP you probably shouldn't modify the speakers to make up for room deficiencies. You should modify the room acustically if possible.

JJK

[davis419b]

IMHP you probably shouldn't modify the speakers to make up for room deficiencies. You should modify the room acustically if possible.

JJK

I agree, it is the room !

[Chris A]

I've never heard such detail and natural mids in all my life. I just can't seem to get accurate bass in my room. I've never had this problem before with any other speaker design. I'm at a loss here. Basically; the Cornwalls have the same bass characteristics as the Quartets.

You didn't mention where you place the speakers and your listening position. The room dimensions that you do mention are almost square. I assume that your ceiling is 8'-- is this correct? A small, square room is probably the source of your problems.

You could try pushing the speakers into the corners with suitable toe-in to aim at your listening position, and then EQ the bass down using something like Room EQ wizard (REW) or a RTA equalizer. I'd be aiming for rising but non-peaking response. Then listen again. This technique will couple the speaker's bass bins to the room's modes and give you the smoothest bass response on the very bottom end that you can achieve in that room.

You could also try moving your speakers into a larger less-square room, then listen again. This will help you determine if you've got speaker issues or room issues.

Chris

[willland]

IMHP you probably shouldn't modify the speakers to make up for room deficiencies. You should modify the room acustically if possible.

JJK

It is the room. Your Quartet's passive radiators can cause significant "boomyness" if placed in a small "live" room. I had my Quartets in a 13 x 13 heavily damped room(carpeted, drapes, fully dressed queen bed) and though it sounded good, it was not "live" enough for my tastes. Now they are tucked right next to my Fortes in my family room and the sound is incredible. "Live" but not boomy at all.

Bill

[Guest " "]

change the brands of your capacitors...change the brands of your speaker wires,,,change the brands of your tubes,,,,,change the,,,ummm,,,what else,,,,?????......seriously , have you tried to put them in the corners toe'd in pointing to the listening position. In a 12X10 room, the sweet spot is not very big....are you listening from within that spot?

[SWL]

A friend of mine just went through the same thing after purchasing some Chorus ll's. His first reaction was to throw different electronics into the mix to correct the problem. Wrong.

Experimented with location and correct placement......PROBLEM SOLVED. Totally cleaned up the bass problem he was having. We all lived happily ever after.

Getting the room right is HUGE.......in almost every situation. Good luck on this. []

[Dsrtjeeper]

First of all; thanks for all the great responses!

I'd like to reiterate that I have been listening in this room since '93 with so many different speakers that it makes my head spin. I have always been able to deal with room resonances in all cases. The speakers sit on the 10' wall out of necessity and I sit on the opposite 10' wall. The ceiling is 8'. I currently have the speakers right in the corners with the drivers toed in facing me. Bass definition is best here so far but still ill defined compared to the speakers I'm use to. Bass guitar is flabby and boomy. The snap of a drum stick on the skins is somewhat dull and missing that hard hit. My SS amp doesn't improve things at 150 watts/channel either. I moved the speakers into the family room and now they rock! The bass isn't the fastest that I've heard but it's as if the speakers need to breathe. I love the horns but the bass is just not made for my room. The only other choice I can think of is to try Heresy's and a sub and I'm not fond of that idea. Up until now; I always enjoyed the intimacy of my small room. I'm at a loss here.

Just a side note: My family is complaining about the boominess when they are trying to watch TV in the family room 30' away.

[Klipsch_Geek]

So, you may have been in that room for 20 years, but every speaker is a bit different.I hate to say this, but being against a wall is never a good thing in a square or rectangular room. At best, you are missing some bass and enhancing some other. In a square room, being centered is also very bad for bass modes and nulls. Your best option based on some very basic seating models would be to sit 7ft from your front wall, with your chair off to the side by 2ft (though even 1 ft would be better than dead center. I would also suggest having the front center of the woofer placed 2.5 ft from the side walls and 3ft from back wall. With these room dimensions that may be difficult when trying to get good sound and have the room look right. Modeling for the room geometry may be difficult, but ultimately if you can find someone who has a spectrum analyzer and knows how to tweak a parametric EQ you might be able to tune some of the rooms bass response. Another solution worth playing with would be a complementary subwoofer with the correct placement, but now the models get much more complex and it is time for real world measurements.

[Dsrtjeeper]

So, you may have been in that room for 20 years, but every speaker is a bit different.I hate to say this, but being against a wall is never a good thing in a square or rectangular room. At best, you are missing some bass and enhancing some other. In a square room, being centered is also very bad for bass modes and nulls. Your best option based on some very basic seating models would be to sit 7ft from your front wall, with your chair off to the side by 2ft (though even 1 ft would be better than dead center. I would also suggest having the front center of the woofer placed 2.5 ft from the side walls and 3ft from back wall. With these room dimensions that may be difficult when trying to get good sound and have the room look right. Modeling for the room geometry may be difficult, but ultimately if you can find someone who has a spectrum analyzer and knows how to tweak a parametric EQ you might be able to tune some of the rooms bass response. Another solution worth playing with would be a complementary subwoofer with the correct placement, but now the models get much more complex and it is time for real world measurements.

I apologize if I mislead you. I don't sit against the back wall. My head is 3' into the room. I will try that speaker placement that you mentioned. I did notice that when I pulled the speakers into the room, the bass was almost non-existent. The boominess diminished greatly. I'm really hating that passive woofer. Almost every speaker I've had in that room sits in the same spot with excellent results. I have tape on the floor right where I have placed so many pair.

Thanks!

[Klipsch_Geek]

I have room-modeling software I use when I perform an HAA calibration on audio systems, but it really is just a "best guess". I then use a RTA to measure and dial-in placement. Try it out, and let us know how it sounds. Also, if you want to get me exact dimensions and seating placement, down to the half-foot, and I can play around a bit more in it if you want?

[Dennie]

You've been an "Audiophile" for 30 years, you've been in the same room for almost 20 years and you haven't treated the room?

Here is a Link to Ethan Winer's Site-----> CLICK HERE

I hope this helps,

Dennie

[Dsrtjeeper]

You've been an "Audiophile" for 30 years, you've been in the same room for almost 20 years and you haven't treated the room?

Here is a Link to Ethan Winer's Site-----> CLICK HERE

I hope this helps,

Dennie

I never said my room isn't treated. I use Room Tunes wall and corner treatment as well as Echo Tune diffusors and absorbing panels. I use the treatments sparingly as I dislike a dead room. As I stated before; I haven't had such bad bass issues to ever warrant the use of bass traps.

[Dsrtjeeper]

I have room-modeling software I use when I perform an HAA calibration on audio systems, but it really is just a "best guess". I then use a RTA to measure and dial-in placement. Try it out, and let us know how it sounds. Also, if you want to get me exact dimensions and seating placement, down to the half-foot, and I can play around a bit more in it if you want?

I wondered if you had software. I've been listening for over an hour after placing the speakers where you specified. The bass is better than ever now with no boom. The downside is that the highs and mids seem more efficient than the woofers. This could be my amp or the inefficient x-overs. Still not quite getting the bass slam that I'm use to. I tried sitting a foot from the back wall and the bass is still nice with a wider sound stage. Also; with the speakers in your suggested position; vocals aren't as fleshed out. They are 2 dimensional. As far as actual measurements; the room is a true 12'x10'x8' room. I sit on a thick futon and the equipment stand is between the speakers against the front wall. I haven't tried toeing the speakers in yet as they are so close together.

Thanks for your help!

[Dennie]

You've been an "Audiophile" for 30 years, you've been in the same room for almost 20 years and you haven't treated the room?

Here is a Link to Ethan Winer's Site-----> CLICK HERE

I hope this helps,

Dennie

I never said my room isn't treated. I use Room Tunes wall and corner treatment as well as Echo Tune diffusors and absorbing panels. I use the treatments sparingly as I dislike a dead room. As I stated before; I haven't had such bad bass issues to ever warrant the use of bass traps.

My Bad! Sorry about the assumption, but it wasn't mentioned or I missed it.

I'm glad you are making progress. [Y]

Dennie

[Dsrtjeeper]

You've been an "Audiophile" for 30 years, you've been in the same room for almost 20 years and you haven't treated the room?

Here is a Link to Ethan Winer's Site-----> CLICK HERE

I hope this helps,

Dennie

I never said my room isn't treated. I use Room Tunes wall and corner treatment as well as Echo Tune diffusors and absorbing panels. I use the treatments sparingly as I dislike a dead room. As I stated before; I haven't had such bad bass issues to ever warrant the use of bass traps.

My Bad! Sorry about the assumption, but it wasn't mentioned or I missed it.

I'm glad you are making progress.

Dennie

No problem. I have my fingers crossed.!

[SWL]

I haven't had such bad bass issues to ever warrant the use of bass traps.

Maybe now.....you do? [:^)]

[Dsrtjeeper]

Moved the speakers back one foot and still good if not better. Toed them in 2". I think the ticket was getting them closer together and away from the side walls.

[billybob]

Excellent!

Thinking of putting Forte speakers at our desk. I am listening on a 50 watt amp, a thinking if can get the speakers setup, will see if the bass is there.They should match. Room is about same size as my music room...to be. They could be raised slightly, as long as checking it out.

Here I can have fun with the positioning. Room size Interesting conversation.

Congrats

[sebrof]

My room is 12' x 13', so I've had the same issues with multiple speakers that you're having now.
If the positioning Klipsch Geek suggested didn't help, try what I did:
Move your seat against the back wall and move your speakers 1/3 into the room (sounds like 4' in your case). I was recently out of town visiting a shop and the owner suggested this. Went against what I believed at the time so I didn't try it for months until I got curious one day. It worked great for me.
It may not be possible for you to leave it this way, but it may give you a clue to what's going on.

My speakers are 4' into the room and about 8' apart (I forget exactly) and I finally have pretty good sound in there. I also have GIK products, the corner bass traps help a lot.