KyleY Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Hearing Hiss Hey all, I now have my Denon 3802 plus Klipsch reference series (RF3 II) 5.1 set (no sub yet though). Anyway, when playing CDs through my DVD player's optical output (or my old CD player's RCA output), I hear hiss (or static?) at moderately high volumes (starts around -22 on the volume dial). It's enough to make me sick that I spent this much money and have hiss / static to deal with. I hear the hiss in all 5 speakers (or both fronts when in regular stereo mode). It's most noticable during quiet / silent parts of the CD tracks. Any idea what the problem may be and what I can do to fix it? Could it be a power issue? I had an old powerstrip, but now I'm using an RCA "home theater" power strip that has a noise filter, etc. Probably not ideal, but I didn't notice any difference with it (and only my DVD player and receiver plugged into it). I have tried with no other components turned on (TV, etc.). Could it be the Denon? If so, what should I do? Contact Denon? Could it be speaker wires? I'm using 14 guage wire from Home Depot (I know, not great stuff). I may get some good wire to try, but I'm afraid that's not it. Aside from the static at higher volumes (it can still go way higher), it sounds very good. When watching a DVD, I didn't notice the hiss, but I wasn't listening for it as much then... This system is all brand new, and I've just been testing it out. I think I even heard a few pops and clicks as well, but that may have been my imagination... Thanks in advance for advice, --Kyle BTW, this is the radio station I currently have tuned in on the FM tuner in the receiver. This message has been edited by KyleY on 04-24-2002 at 08:30 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Kyle - You have a nice setup, and there are MANY Denon owners on this bulletin board. Is this your first set of Klipsch speakers? If so, you may be experiencing what we all love about them -- they are merciless on source components and material. Because they are so sensitive, you will hear things you never heard before -- including noise from components and source material. Many CDs are just digital transfers from analog sources, and have a certain amount of hiss on them anyway. You can check if the Denon is causing the hiss by choosing a non-active input (like Laser Disk player, or something), turning the volume all the way down, and listening close to the speaker. Then turn the volume to its first setting (-60?), and see if the hiss starts. My Denon 3300 does -- it introduces a bit of hiss at that point -- it's the pre-amp in the Denon, and they are not know for incredibly quiet pre-amps, I understand. Also, you can continue checking by then adding your CD player to the input stream, on pause, and see if it adds any hiss (unlikely, especially if you are using digital inputs to the Denon). So, my guess is that it is a combination of Denon pre-amp hiss and hiss on the CDs that was recorded there, which you didn't hear before you bought Klipsch! Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleY Posted April 22, 2002 Author Share Posted April 22, 2002 Hi Doug, Yes, this is my first set of Klipsch. It's actually my first decent stereo really. The CDs I was listening to are relatively new (Pearl Jam - Yield for example). I'll try what you suggest, but I'm pretty sure there is no hiss when there's no input. I don't notice the hiss at lower volumes, but I need to experiment more... I hope it is just the recording, but even then, I'm still disappointed in the hiss Other than that, the sound is excellent. Thanks, --Kyle This message has been edited by KyleY on 04-22-2002 at 11:25 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandern Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Do you have any other inputs into the denon that you could try? Like a computer with MP3's or a VCR. If they all hiss to then its the receiver most likely. I highly doubt its the speakers, although the disadvantage of the klipsch is their efficiency so they make those hisses more noticable. I have noticed with my roomate (in our crowded little dorm room) that since we have so many wires and components and everything is so close together that stuff hisses. At home it doesn't we have it spread out more and the wires aren't such a mess. Like you said better wires may help, but probably not much at all that it would be worth the money. Sorry I don't have any other advice, hope it gets solved. I would recommend going to other pages and see why they report hissing. There are alot of other people on this forum who complain about it so I would read theirs and maybe you can solve yours too. Best of luck. ------------------ I like my bass like I like my women, deep and tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleY Posted April 22, 2002 Author Share Posted April 22, 2002 Hi Zandern, I've tried a CD player and a DVD player (separate units) and both have the hiss (one an optical connection, the other RCA). I think power wires could be a problem... I do have all my power cables and speaker wires going through the same hole at the back of the entertainment center, so perhaps that has something to do with it. I'm getting an RPTV in the next week and 1/2, so I'll reroute my wiring then. Thanks, --Kyle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 in reference to the hiss: 1. Turn on the amplifier with no other components on, make sure speakers are "on"...if hiss it COULD be speakers OR the preamp/amplifier section, but if NO hiss, it is NOT the speakers. 2. If no hiss from the speakers in "1" above, then run each of your components to their regular hook-ups. Give each one a try to see which produces hiss. If one or more of them produces a hiss, but NOT all of them, then it may be the particular component/s causing the hiss, and NOT the amp...BUT if ALL of em produce a hiss, then it is either the amp or the preamp section causing it....or something causing interference for the amp/preamp...likely a shielding problem. 3. Sometimes if there is a shielding problem and the equipment has either three prong or "enlarged-spade on one side two-pronged" plug, a simple polarity problem in the wall socket is the cause...meaning the black and white wires on the socket need to swap positions....OR there may be a bad ground connection in the wall socket that just needs tightening, or cleaning and tightening....if none of this works then it is likely in the amp/preamp section where the problem lies. I hope this helps some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 It is virtually impossible for speakers to produce hiss. The only way is for the crossover to be near a VERY strong magnetic field. The problem is your Denon. If you had speakers of normal efficiency you would not hear the inherent noise floor of the digital processing section. I've seen $4000 HT preamp/processors do the same thing. It seems the digital section in all HT gear is inherently noisy. It is NOT caused by your house wiring and expensive filter systems will not reduce the hiss (they would remove clicks and pops caused by switches and appliances). You MAY have to replace the Denon to get rid of the hiss. Talk to your Denon dealer. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 kyle, like john said & i mentioned in your other thread, doesn't the denon have a stereo mode or something that bypasses it's processor (their direct mode still uses the dsp to produce sub output). not that that's the solution (or that there really is one), but you might be able to isolate how much is coming from the dsp & digital circuitry that way. some do use the ext-in analog inputs & the analog outputs from their players to go around that. but the player's circuitry & features may not be better. i still use the digital connection myself. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierceb Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 I agree with John, Denons are noisy. I have a 3802 with Reference 7 setup and the hiss is there (even without a source). However, I think the majority of the hiss you are hearing when playing CD's is on the recording. I too have new CD's (good recordings) and I usually here the tape hiss, the 'noise floor' is mostly negligible when playing music or DVD's. The sensitivity of your speakers is bringing the hiss 'alive'. I also hear the pops and clicks when changing the volume level (primarily with the remote). I have a dedicate circuit to my HT, and have tried line conditioners, none have helped. If you check other threads on this board, you may find more information. I heard even the high end Denon's are noisy. I've basically accepted the fact the Denon is noisy, and will make sure that when I upgrade the pre component is very quiet. -PB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandern Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Actually I forgot to say something, that I just remembered. My brother bought an Onkyo 777 and his started to hiss loudly one day. It was still under waranty so he took it back to the dealer. They fixed it for free since he bought the extended warranty and there was no shipping cost since it wasn't bought over the net, just at a local dealer. The dealer fixed it for him and now there is no his at all. Good thing he had a warranty because they said that the problem was in the main circuit board and they ended up replacing that. So if its still under warranty maybe consider taking it in if its getting bad. ------------------ I like my bass like I like my women, deep and tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insomniac Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 i had the same problem with a set of speakers, what i did was get a power cleaner, it takes the power from the wall and cleans it from voltage spikes and hiss in the lines, if you have the extra money get a rack mount style one, but monster cable makes a pretty good power strip version not as good though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFK Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 Opinions please from those who have heard the Denon hiss.... I was planning on getting a Denon 3802 and a pair of RF-7's (along with some other stuff, too). I don't have a local shop that carries both the receiver and speakers, so I can't listen to them together. Do you think it would be best to think about another receiver, assuming the Reference speakers will bring out the hiss sound more than other speakers? Or is this noise very tolerable and not something to really worry about? I know everybody's ears are different, but I'd like to hear (no pun intended) from those who have heard "the hiss". Thanks for the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardre Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 FWIW, I just purchased a 3802 like 2 weeks ago. Still in the learning curve. However, like my other Denon, a 1701, I hear no hiss. I mean zero. At "holy s#!^" loudness, between tracks you'd think that the power was turned off. ------------------ Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 Kyle, The fact that you hear the hiss through all 5 speakers, and that it's fairly loud, indicates to me what you're hearing is an artifact of the surround processing. Many surround processors, particularly when using a synthesised surround environment, produce a fairly high level of obnoxious hisssssssss..... If you can, put your receiver into a "pure" two channel mode, no processing at all, and play a stereo 2 channel CD, and see what you hear. In this mode, obviously, there should be NO sound from ANYTHING but front left and rights, and there should not be any hiss from any speakers at all. Let us know? Ray ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Ray's Music System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 My problem is not a hiss, but rather a nasty *** buzz sound when the volume is very low. I don't hear it when I have a decent level of volume. I have Monster Cable Home Theater Bar , suppose you could say it's a Home Theater Condom, keeps it protected . But still I get a buzz. Anoying as hell but I suppose it's better than hiss at high volumes. ------------------ Internet Software Engineer: Will code for HT upgrades. the m00n system RF-3II Front floors RC-3II Center RS-3II Surrounds RSW-12 Subwoofer Harman Kardon AVR 520 Toshiba SD 3205 DVD Samsung 27" Flatscreen c> Microsoft XBOXc> f> This message has been edited by m00n on 04-23-2002 at 06:20 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 moon, put a 3:2 cheater plug on your rsw sub. assuming that's the only device you have in this sys w/ a 3 prong ac plug into wall outlet. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 Really? Just the sub? I do have it plugged into the Monster bar, but that does not matter? ------------------ Internet Software Engineer: Will code for HT upgrades. the m00n system RF-3II Front floors RC-3II Center RS-3II Surrounds RSW-12 Subwoofer Harman Kardon AVR 520 Toshiba SD 3205 DVD Samsung 27" Flatscreen c> Microsoft XBOXc> f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 what else besides the sub has a 3 prong outlet plugged into anything? that's what i do. i'll let the others handle the next 3 pages on ground loops. i'm getting tired in my old age. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickey Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 C'mon Boa, you are now a Zen Master when it comes to ground loop hum... m00n - Click on http://216.37.9.58/ubb/Forum4/HTML/003279.html for an exhaustive discussion on the topic of ground loop hum. Good luck, Colin ------------------ My System This message has been edited by chickey on 04-23-2002 at 09:03 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleY Posted April 23, 2002 Author Share Posted April 23, 2002 Hi all, Well, I've done more testing and I'm not too happy with the results: 1. The hiss occurs immediately when I take the volume from off to -70 (the first volume setting). I just hadn't noticed it before. 2. The hiss gets slightly louder as I turn up the volume to max. Also, as I turn up the volume I notice faint pops and clicks (this is with no source playing) as the volume is being adjusted. 3. It doesn't matter whether the input is optical or RCA (DVD or CD player) or even FM radio - all hiss. All of my testing was actually done with nothing even playing - just the DVD or CD player on pause or off. 4. Doesn't matter what DSP mode it's in - Direct, Stereo, 5 channel stereo, dolby, etc. 5. The hiss is in all 5 speakers at all volume levels. So, what's the verdict? Bad Denon? Should I see about getting it serviced or try to return it altogether? Thanks everyone for the help! --Kyle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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