Hiss in Reference Series with Denon 3802

[boa12]

yea right colin after my unresolvable loop quandry i'm back to the kiss - just use a cheater plug.

btw moon, i was talkin about components that have a 3 prong plug, like the rsw, hk?, etc. ok to have the surge/line conditioners all 3 prong in the wall outlet.

i have my monster hts power box all 3 plugged in but cheaters on all safety ground (3 prong) plugs from all components that have them. i know, i'm a bad boy.

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My Home Systems Page

[hwatkins]

Well - I tried some of the same stuff as you described with my 3802 and found the following (my apologies to anyone who may have read a much earlier report from me that there was no hiss):

1. In my set up - the hiss is clearly there in all the DPL II, DTS, DD and DSP settings. In all of these the hiss becomes evident (no source and listening very closely) around -2db. Only clearly hisses around 0db. This is way loud and is an OK thing for me right now. I am at 75db around -12db.

2. In stereo (and less so in 5/7 channel stereo) it can get to nothing in all but CD, where a slight hiss appears at 10db. In my setup - I only can go to 16db in stereo and 9db in most dsp.

It only ccurs in very loud volume levels that I will not be using.

If my look at this as the norm, then you may well have some sort of reciever problem. Hope this helps.

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Hwatkins

[KyleY]

Okay, I found another very odd thing about my problem:

When I turn the volume all the way up to +15, the hiss gets louder, but I could *also* hear an FM radio station! I could hear it loud enough that I could clearly make out the song anywhere in the room - "Running with the Devilllll..." I could clearly hear it with my ear to the speaker as low as -16 on the volume.

So, what might this mean? Thanks again,

--Kyle

BTW, this is the radio station I currently have tuned in on the FM tuner in the receiver.

BTW2, I have just a speaker wire that is plugged into my antenna connector at the back of the receiver. That speaker wire (antenna) runs along with all the other wires as well.

This evening I plan to unhook the receiver, place it in a corner by itself with one of my RF3-II towers (only one hooked up) with nothing but the wall plug and one speaker wire connected to the receiver, and I'll see if I still have hiss and / or the radio interference.

This message has been edited by KyleY on 04-24-2002 at 09:17 AM

[Maximo]

This could be 2 things, first it could be that your interconnects aren't shielded good enough and are acting as an antenna, I would mabey try Transparent Cable, they make very very low noise interconnects with real good shielding. Another thing mabey to try is another receiver, its possible that something in the denon you have has gone bad.

[JohnA]

Hiss at high or full volume setting is normal to almost EVERY preamp; every one I've ever seen. It will do that with any input. It will be easier to hear when there is no signal on that input (set to CD with the player off). You have no cause to complain about that. It comes from the very large gain the preamp section can generate at full volume setting and is made more easily heard by Klipsch's high efficiency.

The bleed over from the tuner section is sometimes called crosstalk. While expected and somewhat typical in cheap gear it is ultimately from a poor quality component. I'm not familiar with your Denon, but all of my cheap receivers from my college days do it.

Audible hiss at very low volume settings (the minimum or first click or 2 of the volume control) should not be normal, but it very often is these days due to the digital processing sections in HT gear. I think that should be cause for a return of the piece for repair.

John

[boa12]

kyle, i get the am station down the street faintly on my rear speaks from the cable to them. about 40ft runs

& does this whether the cables are attached to the amp or not. cable can act like an attenae for rf. guess they make shielded speaker cable but not enough of a problem for me to bother.

when you switch to another radio station does the same one still play or does it go to that one?

that's a downfall of having mute circuits like most receivers do. it may avoid the lil clicks & pops when switching & some noise, but then the circuitry is not truely discrete (it's connected by those switches.

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My Home Systems Page

[IndyKlipschFan]

I have the 3802 Denon setup with a pair of K horns. I do not hear ANY hiss.

I offer a few suggestions.

1.) Do you have a phone recharger plugged in somewhere in your house?

2.) Do you have a dimmer switch turned on for some other lights in the house?

3.) Check the cables plugged into the back to make sure all connections are plugged in securely. Might also check here removing connections one by one and see if it is a bad connection/cord.

I have had many hours listening to the 3802 it is a warmer sound than that from my previous Yamaha system. Music sounds warmer over longer periods where ear fatigue happened with the Yamaha. While I hate the remote..The written instructions are terrible.. AND it is still in my opinion is not set up correctly in my system to view it on the TV to adjust things.<< you buy a $1,000.00 piece of equipment at your audio store..For 100 dollars they will hook it up...Seems like robery to me.>>..(Sorry but it is true. I used to do hookups like this in my sleep in 2 min, but it will not work for some reason.LOL..I must be getting old....) I hope this helps.

[dougdrake]

I'll second John's comment that the radio crosstalk you are getting is not abnormal (most likely). Most receivers experience that -- my Denon 3300 does, and I know it is not unique to Denon. (I'll have to try it on my NAD, but I think it does it as well.)

Doug

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My System

[Jolly Roger]

quote:

---

Originally posted by KyleY:

2. Also, as I turn up the volume I notice faint pops and clicks (this is with no source playing) as the volume is being adjusted.

--Kyle

---

I thought I had this problem too when I first got my avr-3300. If you watch the digital read-out of the volume I think you'll notice the pops aret the same intervils as the volume change. For instance going from say -10 to -9 there would be a light click. Change volumes very fast and you get several of these pops together and they are more noticable.

[Fish]

I have a Denon 3802 and rf7 rc7 rs7 and have no hiss,source is likely suspect at high volume.Also as noted,these speakers are very revealing.See/listen if hiss is audible at first vol step,and I dont mean stick your ear into the speaker,all will have some small hint of sound.If you step back 1 ft and hear hiss,at lowest vol.you have defect/wireing.I had an onkyo 777,while it sounded ok, it hissed like a snake,to fix they installed filter,I don't like my music filtered,thus I gave to son,he loves it.Denon sounds like no hiss after that,and much more musical.While I like pearl jam, their recordings are not perfect,the 4 I have poorly recorded,try STEELY DAN, two against nature,its clean as it gets!

[edwardre]

Kyle, sounds to me like you're driving yourself crazy here! Seeing as how you've stated that it's all new, Take the thing back to where you got it and tell them it is defective. Like I said before, mine too is new. Still trying to figure out the remote. However, a couple of things I have figured out is that 1. Ain't no hiss at low, med or loud volumes and 2. absolutely no crosstalk whatsoever. Zero. Zip. Nada. I've got Khorns, Belle and CW's hooked into the 3802. talk about revealing. At least if you trade it in for another, you'd be able to eliminate (hopefully!!) the receiver as the culprit and then be able to focus on another aspect of your system.

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Ed

[KyleY]

Hi again...

Well, I have more conclusive results that allow me to definitely blame the problem on the 3802. I disconnected the 3802 from all components and speaker. I took the 3802 to a wall outlet separate from everything else. I plugged it in and one speaker (Klipsch RF3-II) and absolutely nothing else. Once again, as soon as I turned the volume from --- (off) to -70 (one notch up), I heard the hum. Like before, it got louder as I turned the volume up. To take it even further, I hooked up an old JBL bookshelf speaker and I got the exact same hum. I even used different speaker wires. Definitely a problem with the 3802!

I'll be trying to get it serviced now. I didn't by it locally though (over the Net), but I did buy it from an authorized Denon distributor - 6ave.com. Hopefully I can get a local service center to service it...

As far as the suggestion to trade it in, that may be ideal, but I'd have to ship it back and I'm not sure if it's still within the time frame to do that... Thanks,

--Kyle

[KyleY]

FYI, I spoke with Denon technical support regarding this issue, and they seemed to think it was normal... I don't think that buying a MSRP $1,200 receiver and hearing hiss at -70 on the volume dial is normal myself. In a $200 receiver, maybe. They claimed it was due to the speakers being very efficient (Klipsch and I also tried JBL).

They suggested I take it to a local service center and have it checked out. That's what I'm going to do, but I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the results. If it's bad and can be repaired, great. If it isn't "defective" I don't know if I'll keep it or send it back and get an entirely different receiver (maybe Sony? I want one with multi-room / multi-source capability). Later,

--Kyle

[boa12]

kyle, a higher freq hiss & lower freq hum or buzz are usually 2 different problems. anyway good idea to take it to the service center. at the least they can try it out on a different electrical system. good luck.

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My Home Systems Page

[c01he]

Kyle, I also have a 3802 and hear no hissing. I often listen to it @ -70 as I often sleep with music and still do not hear any hiss. My speakers are the legend series.

IndyKlipschFan mentioned to check for appliance, but you may also check for timers, electric motors, floresent lights etc. these could induce noise into the input line. You could try unplugging as many of these electrical items or try another input source, such as a relative's house or somewhere remote of your home.

It may be easier to isolate the problem than to engage with the dealer and still end up with the same problem

Hope this helps... good luck

Chris

[T2K]

Just to put in my 2 pesos,I have a 3801 and have absolutely no noise whatsoever.Have dedicated HT circuits,Panamax,Magic Box connected,and a bottle of snake oil in the garage.I think your problem is elsewhere,or simply a bad receiver.Good luck widit!

Keith

[boa12]

i myself try to put more emphasis on the sound quality when somethin is playing.

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My Home Systems Page

[KyleY]

Hey All,

Well, I'm pretty convinced that all or at least most receivers have the hiss I have been experiencing. I heard it in another Denon 3802 in a dealer's setup as well as a Pioneer Elite (worse in the Pioneer).

I ended up buying a Sony 5ES to directly compare to the Denon at home. The Sony's hiss was almost completely inaudible at the lowest volume setting while the Denon's could be heard easier. On the other hand, the Sony's hiss was way louder at max volume than the Denon's was at max volume. So, that didn't decide anything for me. I listened to some music and DVDs, and I couldn't tell a whole lot of difference between the two. The Denon did seem to have better separation of the music, and it seemed to be a little easier on the ears at the same volume. The Sony seemed to scream at me more. The differences were *not* big though.

When listening to DVDs (scenes from The Matrix, Saving Private Ryan), I tried the Studio Cinema B that others love. Neither stood out to me as much better than the other, but the Sony did some odd things - speech normally included in the center channel only was heard in the left / right front speakers. For some reason, that speech sounded a little mechanical (like a slight echo). That was the only big difference I noticed. When watching The Matrix, I preferred the Sony sound, but when watching Saving Private Ryan the Denon seemed to sound better to me. Sorry, I can't really describe the differences...

Since I couldn't tell much of a difference between the two, didn't need the extra features of the Sony, and the hiss was present in both receivers, I decided to keep the Denon and save nearly $200. It would have been a toss-up, but the price difference made the choice easier. The Sony's remote is better, it's upgradable, has a 5 year warranty (vs Denon's 1 year), and the onscreen menus are much better. It also had a lot more controls (EQ, crossover frequencies, etc.), but I'm probably better off not messing with that anyway. At any rate, the Sony is clearly a more advanced receiver, but the actual sound wasn't much different from the Denon and seemed a little inferior in the music area...

BTW, I do plan to unplug everything from the house to see if that has anything to do with the hiss, but after hearing it in stores, I think it may just be normal. Later,

--Kyle

[boa12]

kyle, yea thanks for the confirm. they all have it to some degree. if they are 100% hiss free at least w/ speaker to ear & volume cranked then they're either filtering so much that the sound won't be good (taking away from material & discreteness of circuitry) or the tweeters are blown.

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