Problem with speech/high frequency sounds from my RC-64/RF-83 setup.

[wboffthelake]

For some reason high frequency portions of sounds such as speech, sibilance, rain falling, waves crashing, hockey skates scraping the ice, or any speech in general sounds significantly different through my RC-64 than my RF-83s. It is very apparent when, say, a sports announcer is speaking, and I switch back and forth between stereo mode, where the speech comes out of the 83s, and auto surround mode, where a Dolby Digital signal feeds the speech to the 64. The announcer's voice through the 64 sounds a bit muffled with the high end "tamed". It's not that the speech is not clear or strong, it just seems to lack the highest parts, leading to the slightly muffled sound. This is the case whether I run MCACC or set up manually. It has also been the same when I have used my current amp or when I tried an SC-35. It has been enough of a difference that I have rathered watch in stereo than Dolby Digital, which just doesn't seem right when we're talking about a $1000.00 flagship center channel.

When I've played music through the RC-64, in one of the modes that directs music to the center channel, the tweeter clearly works, but sounds different than the tweeters in the 83s, again seeming to lack the highest parts of cymbals and vocals, even though they are suppost to be the exact same driver.

I don't think it can be attributed to simple timbre matching as, even though I understand, based on professional reviews, that the 64 is supposed to not be a perfect timbre match to the 83, it is still supposed to be quite good. What I'm getting, while clear and strong, seems to be missing part of the sound information. Also I never experienced anything like this with my old Polk M70/CS2 setup. Frankly, the the sound I recall from the $129.00 CS2 in 5.1 was far clearer and more alive than my 64.

Can someone with an 83/64 setup try switching between stereo mode and Dolby Digital and see if they experience the same thing? Do I possibly have a defective RC-64?

Thanks for your help.

[elitedemo]

im pretty sure what your describing isnt normal, i guess make sure you have your front 3 set to all large or small speaker setting, run through all your settings first on the avr or processing unit and make sure everything is set properly

[wboffthelake]

Believe me, I've played with everything I can think of, all large, all small, center small with 83s large, etc, changing the crossover, etc. Still the same. It's been like this since I got the system 9 months ago.

[cornfedksboy]

This is going to sound stupid, but if you've played will all your settings and changed receivers/amps, then this is all I've got: Do you have the connector (don't remember what it is called) in place between the terminal posts?

[wboffthelake]

Nope, those are all removed. I know what you mean...I've been at this, off and on, for 9 months, since I first upgraded from Polk to Klipsch. I have nothing left to try. Unless anyone else has anything to add, it's got to be the speaker, maybe something with the crossover.

How does Klipsch handle warranty claims for an RC-64? Has anyone here dealt with Klipsch warranty service on a speaker? If so, how did it go? Were you treated well?

[wuzzzer]

Nope, those are all removed.

I hope that you are bi-wiring or bi-amping your RC-64 then?

[cornfedksboy]

Nope, those are all removed. I know what you mean...I've been at this, off and on, for 9 months, since I first upgraded from Polk to Klipsch. I have nothing left to try. Unless anyone else has anything to add, it's got to be the speaker, maybe something with the crossover.

How does Klipsch handle warranty claims for an RC-64? Has anyone here dealt with Klipsch warranty service on a speaker? If so, how did it go? Were you treated well?

I would put those back on and see what happens...

[willland]

Nope, those are all removed.

Those jumpers must be in place if you are not biwiring/biamping.

I do understand what you mean about the RC-64 not being an absolute "perfect" match. Even though they are designed to be timbre-matched to the RF-83/63, being a sealed cabinet will have a "slight" tonal difference. To combat this, I used my EQ in my receiver to make some subtle adjustments to my 63's(raised bass,lowered treble) and now the matching is much better.

Also, make sure your RC-64 is directly pointed to your ear level while in your main seating position.

Bill

[BluBitRates]

If you bought it from an authorized dealer and you have proof of purchase you will be able to make a warranty claim. And if the problem is not from misuse of the speaker it will be a piece of cake for them to fix. If you are a little handy they might ship you the replacement tweeter or part and you send the old one back. Not sure if they would do this but shipping the rc-64 is not smart

[Kain]

I've noticed the same thing with my RF-7s and RC-7.

http://community.klipsch.com/forums/p/146955/1510587.aspx

[wboffthelake]

Oops, my mistake, the jumpers ARE on. I was getting tired last night.

[wboffthelake]

I read through that thread and still think that something is not right. Even after running the MCACC, the difference was there, like it has a muffled sound. EQ adjustments have not changed it. It is also aimed right at my ear level. As I mentioned, I used to have a Polk Moniton 70 and CS2 setup, and had absolutely no tonal difference or muffled sound.

If anyone has an RF-83/RC-64 setup, could you try switching between stereo and Dolby Digital and see if experience the same issue?

I just missed Klipsch service today, as they close at 5 ET. Will try next week.

Thanks again for the help. Sorry about misstating that I had taken the jumpers off.

[Heritage_Head]

For some reason high frequency portions of sounds such as speech, sibilance, rain falling, waves crashing, hockey skates scraping the ice, or any speech in general sounds significantly different through my RC-64 than my RF-83s. It is very apparent when, say, a sports announcer is speaking, and I switch back and forth between stereo mode, where the speech comes out of the 83s, and auto surround mode, where a Dolby Digital signal feeds the speech to the 64. The announcer's voice through the 64 sounds a bit muffled with the high end "tamed". It's not that the speech is not clear or strong, it just seems to lack the highest parts, leading to the slightly muffled sound. This is the case whether I run MCACC or set up manually. It has also been the same when I have used my current amp or when I tried an SC-35. It has been enough of a difference that I have rathered watch in stereo than Dolby Digital, which just doesn't seem right when we're talking about a $1000.00 flagship center channel.

When I've played music through the RC-64, in one of the modes that directs music to the center channel, the tweeter clearly works, but sounds different than the tweeters in the 83s, again seeming to lack the highest parts of cymbals and vocals, even though they are suppost to be the exact same driver.

I don't think it can be attributed to simple timbre matching as, even though I understand, based on professional reviews, that the 64 is supposed to not be a perfect timbre match to the 83, it is still supposed to be quite good. What I'm getting, while clear and strong, seems to be missing part of the sound information. Also I never experienced anything like this with my old Polk M70/CS2 setup. Frankly, the the sound I recall from the $129.00 CS2 in 5.1 was far clearer and more alive than my 64.

Can someone with an 83/64 setup try switching between stereo mode and Dolby Digital and see if they experience the same thing? Do I possibly have a defective RC-64?

Thanks for your help.

Sorry if this part is obvious but have you put your ear up and can hear the horn working? And if you can explain what you hear with you ear up to it compared to the 83s

[willland]

Can someone with an 83/64 setup try switching between stereo mode and Dolby Digital and see if they experience the same thing? Do I possibly have a defective RC-64?

I do somewhat experience the same things you are concerned about with my RF-63/RC-64 combo but I attribute most of it to different listening modes in my receiver. Consider this, when in stereo mode, all information and frequencies are sent to your RF-83's, in Dolby digital, mostly dialogue is sent to the RC-64 which typically covers frequencies from 100Hz to 1200Hz. Also with stereo mode, you are also getting a full signal to only two speakers as opposed to 5 or 7.

Also think about this. The RF-83 rolls from the woofers to the horn tweeter at 1650Hz while the RC-64 doesn't cross over to the horn tweeter until 1800Hz. This may account for the crisper sounds of the RF-83. Again, the RC-64 is a sealed cabinet which also might explain the tamer muffled vocals.

Try watching TV in "all channel stereo" where all speakers are getting the same exact signal. With my NAD receiver it is called "Enhanced Stereo" and I greatly prefer that mode over DD or DPLII for regular TV or sports and music for that matter. It provides a fuller more evenly balanced sound.

Just more things to consider.

Bill

[BluBitRates]

When do a tone test on my speakers (same experience with rf-82 and rc-62 as well as rf-7ii and rc-64ii) there is a slight difference in sound, i could probably pick the center out in a blind test. If you are plagued with wondering if your center is messed up then it very likely may be. Have you given klipsch support a call yet? Like i said if you bought them from an authorized dealer they will help you figure something out.

[Heritage_Head]

Although there is always going to be a small difference even if you used the same 3 speakers because of placement, and as mentioned above about the difference in materiel being sent to the different channels. The way he has described what he is hearing it sounds like a lot more than what’s normal.

[hachuelo]

Hello wboffthelake

Did you fix the issue with your center channel? Just curious cause I have similar problem in my setup and I think I know what your problem is.

[wboffthelake]

I'm not sure yet. I contacted Klipsch and they suggested that I connect one speaker wire lead to a top terminal, and one to a bottom terminal, the reason being something about forcing the electrons through the speaker. This made a bit of a difference but did not completly solve the problem.

However I just bought a Pioneer SC-37 and I'm still tweaking the settings. After running MCACC, sound coming from the center seems better matched to the sound coming from the mains. Something I've noticed is that the "problem" is much more pronounced when I run both the fronts and the center as large, even at low to moderate volumes. Running MCACC always automatically sets my front stage to large, but when I switch them to small, the problem is less noticible. Strange. Clearly my new amp can easily drive any of my speakers when set to either large or small.

The overall question is whether I am experiencing the known tonal difference between the RF-83 and the RC-64, or whether something is wrong.

[hachuelo]

My setup is somewhat different than yours (VF35/VC25) and the mismatch is very noticeable Im running the speakers with a Yammy RX-V663,and no matter what I do there is no way I can have a seamless front stage.

Last week I spoke with a rep and he told me that the center is for handling human voices and that is its function so they made it to make speech more intelligible,well that is good as long the CC don't handle other sounds but the CC on movies handle more than voices,I think that is a wrong approach from Klipsch because fronstage should sound the same Left Right & Center.

I was decided to go the bottom of the issue and opened both CC and one tower and discovered that eventhough both use same drivers the crossover on both speakers is different(diferent values on the components),I called them and order the crossover network that uses the VF35 and Im planning to intall it on the CC to see if the problem of tonal mismatch dissapears.

[cornfedksboy]

My setup is somewhat different than yours (VF35/VC25) and the mismatch is very noticeable Im running the speakers with a Yammy RX-V663,and no matter what I do there is no way I can have a seamless front stage. Last week I spoke with a rep and he told me that the center is for handling human voices and that is its function so they made it to make speech more intelligible,well that is good as long the CC don't handle other sounds but the CC on movies handle more than voices,I think that is a wrong approach from Klipsch because fronstage should sound the same Left Right & Center. I was decided to go the bottom of the issue and opened both CC and one tower and discovered that eventhough both use same drivers the crossover on both speakers is different(diferent values on the components),I called them and order the crossover network that uses the VF35 and Im planning to intall it on the CC to see if the problem of tonal mismatch dissapears.

Well, maybe using the center is for voicing is the incorrect approach, but it is DEFINATELY industry standard and is an accepted practice by the engineers. If I were you I'd look at all my wiring/connections first. I know it sounds silly, but I accidently hooked my center into the left channel and my left channel into the Zone B terminal one time. I only noticed it after playing with the settings for a week. I was ready to buy a new receiver! Next check your settings. Make sure that you aren't overloading the cross-over settings on your center. You really only want it handling frequencies above 80 Hz. Anything in the front sound stage that moves across the screen should primarily be picked up by your towers with the center only giving off a small amount of sound. If it still doesn't sound right, I'd check the placement of your speakers and make sure they're angled correctly and have a good amount of distance between the wall. I have very similar Icon WF-35 towers and a WF-24 center. The sound stage moves beautifully across the screen.