Don Richard Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Dynamic range is, IMHO, the domain of the composer and musician, not the engineer. Only for unamplified music. When the music is rock, R&B, C&W, most jazz, dance music, hiphop, etc. they are always (professionally) recorded multitrack and it is vital to control the dynamics. In these cases that's the job of the engineer. Processing is done on a per channel basis during mixdown and compensates for problems such as inconsistent drum hits, uneven bass guitar notes, singers with poor mic techniques and the like. It is difficult or impossible to mix properly with the channel levels jumping all over the place. Slapping a comp across a stereo bus is a different matter. That sort of thing is mostly done during the mastering phase of production and that is the most detectable use of dynamics compression. When properly applied on a per channel basis dynamics processing (gating, compression, and limiting) does not make the recording sound unnatural at all but rather makes it sound better (unless the engineer is intentionally using dynamics control as an effect). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjsilva Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 An Intel 1701 chipset found on most motherboards is capable of recording uncompressed at 24/192. Anyone who can't afford that can't afford to eat. Dave I think there are more important aspects to making a high quality recording than bit and sample rates (i.e. microphones, etc.) I personally don't play MP3s on my audio system either. Part of the reason is simply an ideal - to me, MP3s represent those who don't care about sound quality. We take the time and effort to put together systems and learn to appreciate great quality sound, then play an audio format that was designed simply to take up less space? Another reason is that I question how high the quality is of the output from most computers and iPods? I know I'm not impressed listening with headphones. I am a bit of a hypocrite though, I used to make my own live recordings using minidisc and would happily play those through my system. Of course in the end it's just about listening. Fortunately the music I listen to (classical) is still available on something better than MP3. Sometimes I'll listen to some YouTube recordings just for historical reasons, but not through my audio system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironsave Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 A lot of Metal music (IE: Underground) is recorded at (somewhat) lower quality. Often times; this is due to budget constraints on bands that have not made it yet. An Intel 1701 chipset found on most motherboards is capable of recording uncompressed at 24/192. Anyone who can't afford that can't afford to eat. Dave An intel chipset does not give the same result as a multi million dollar studio with high paid sound engineers and production, mixing, etc. Continuing with this thread (for me) is pointless; as you seem concerned only with making your point, instead of actually trying to understand other views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRFL Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 A lot of Metal music (IE: Underground) is recorded at (somewhat) lower quality. Often times; this is due to budget constraints on bands that have not made it yet. An Intel 1701 chipset found on most motherboards is capable of recording uncompressed at 24/192. Anyone who can't afford that can't afford to eat. Dave An intel chipset does not give the same result as a multi million dollar studio with high paid sound engineers and production, mixing, etc. Continuing with this thread (for me) is pointless; as you seem concerned only with making your point, instead of actually trying to understand other views. Allow me to put my 2 bobs worth in here. I have 3 Crapple iPods but did not buy any of them. Well intentioned people give them at presentations. Even though I put wav files on them and for the record NEVER mp3. They have no hope of ever being anything more than something to test if the limiters are set properly to protect a commercial system from maniac DJ's. I reckon the D/A in an iPod is worth 2 bob "20 cents". Yet people continue to want to connect them to carefully considered system installations. There is nothing that can match a multi million dollar studio with dedicated engineers and producers. Before computers and CD's there was a generally accepted standard of exceeding what was done before, now, I assert that has somewhat lapsed. Those direct to disc Sheffield Lad recordings always had the sensation of real. The real sound accurately recorded so it could be accurately reproduced on your Klipsch speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Continuing with this thread (for me) is pointless; as you seem concerned only with making your point, instead of actually trying to understand other views. No sir, I am done making my point. I apologize if I antagonized you. Not my intention. Just wanted to ensure we are speaking the same language. Email is notoriusly vague on "tone of voice." I do understand other views, and even how they came about. However, that story might be construed as a red herring. Sorry again. Overcomplex way of saying: 1. I understand your POV 2. I understand other POVs on the subject. 3. I don't like compression, period. Heck, I don't like pro football...but I like an AWEFUL lot of people that do...[] Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 DR, you definitely have the advantage on me as per amplified or generated instruments. I LOVE all the great music produced in that medium in it's entire history, but would be clueless as to how to engineer it. I would only be able to apply acoustic instrument thinking to it. I must assume that it is not possible to limit the dynamic range of such instruments to the range of the human threshold of silence to the threshold of pain, i.e., the normal range of dynamics we are used to. In fact, I couldn't follow your technical paragraph at all as I am quite ignorant of the technology involved. Nonetheless, I love much of the output. Allan Parsons had a totally natural...and certainly artificial due to the nature of his compositions...dynamic range from black silence to the threshold of pain. About like a brass choir and 75 rank organ from 30 feet in a narrow stone choir. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmako Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 "Kraftwerk blows"???? Don't tell Uli Kunkle, aka Karl Hungous aka Uli the Nihlist! "we believe in nuhsink und tomorrow ve come back and ve cut off your johnson!" I don't believe in compression. In fact I think I'll go decompress with a j and a white russian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 I don't believe in compression. In fact I think I'll go decompress with a j and a white russian. I'll be right over... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironsave Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Continuing with this thread (for me) is pointless; as you seem concerned only with making your point, instead of actually trying to understand other views. No sir, I am done making my point. I apologize if I antagonized you. Not my intention. Just wanted to ensure we are speaking the same language. Email is notoriusly vague on "tone of voice." I do understand other views, and even how they came about. However, that story might be construed as a red herring. Sorry again. Overcomplex way of saying: 1. I understand your POV 2. I understand other POVs on the subject. 3. I don't like compression, period. Heck, I don't like pro football...but I like an AWEFUL lot of people that do... Dave Dave, In a perfect world for me; every single recording and song would be perfectly engineered and mixed. I set my minimum standard of 320 KBS because the world is not perfect. As I said; I copy every CD I have and own/ have access to over in FLAC. Email and forum posting can make a spirited debate difficult. I would say I do not like compression either; but I know it exists and have chosen to deal with it when necessary. As for Kraftewerke; I stand by my statement; because I do not like their music. That being said; to each his own, and I do not criticize those who do...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runninshine Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Kraftwerk is pretty cool.....these guys look like bank tellers or Mormon Missionaries. (in their day) ...either way, this one has it's place in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 As for Kraftewerke; I stand by my statement; because I do not like their music. That being said; to each his own, and I do not criticize those who do...... Hell, man, it's awful. But I like the very few people I know who think otherwise...[] Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted August 26, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 26, 2011 That's some perty boxes with blue lights you got there Runninshine ! [H] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted August 26, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 26, 2011 Hell, man, it's awful. That's funny..........i thought they made cheese ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 No Eldon, the Germans heavily regulate that activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRFL Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Hell, man, it's awful. That's funny..........i thought they made cheese ? with holes and they made cheezels from the holes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjsilva Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 I set my minimum standard of 320 KBS because the world is not perfect. As I said; I copy every CD I have and own/ have access to over in FLAC. What is your physical source? Computer? The device can make more of a difference than the audio format. For instance, compressed minidisc recordings on a quality MD deck will disgrace 'cd-quality' audio on an iPod or standard computer output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Sorry dude, I completely disagree with your statement. See my signature line. If you don't mind, it don't matter. However, listening to a quality recording of something critical...say a solo Strad...makes the sonic degradation of any compression scheme that in any way throws out audio information painfully obvious. OTOH, you are unlikely to notice if listening to Kraftwerke. Dave Dern Anglican snob. First of all, Kraftwerk was never compressed as far as a I know. Second, I have fahrted on the der Autobahn and if you had I'm sure your attitude would be different. Most times, not always, someone with a decent system will have no problem identifying compression wherever it's employed. Most of the time it's pretty obvious and not solely the realm of metal bands and bad pop recordings. Indeed, I'm pretty sure some of those classical organ grinders have been compressing their pipes in order to impress the church ladies. How can you not like these lyrics: Autobahn : Wir fahr'n fahr'n fahr'n auf der Autobahn Vor uns liegt ein weites Tal Die Sonne scheint mit Glitzerstrahl Die Fahrbahn ist ein graues Band Weisse Streifen, gruener Rand Jetzt schalten wir ja das Radio an Aus dem Lautsprecher klingt es dann: Wir fah'rn auf der Autobahn... Sublime, simply sublime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Lass mich rein lass mich rauss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Schweinhundt... My Kraftwerke IS compressed. I placed it in the compactor myself and saw to it. I takes up MUCH less room than before.[6] I had no intention of ragging on der Kraftwerke Partei. I have only one point in this thread: Compression, dynamic or file, is an evil plot completely unnecessary with technology that provides unlimited cheap storage and a dynamic range from the threshold of audibility to the threshold of pain. And, yes, compressed organ is very painful. I try to keep my organ well clear of it. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Mallette's on a roll..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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