Still partial to HK

[Youthman]

Today, I picked up a Harman Kardon AVR70 in excellent condition. I am putting together a simple, budget 2ch system for my office. It has been several years since I sold my previous AVR55. I have since upgraded receiver from the AVR55 to an Onkyo TX-SR703 (because it had DTS and preouts) and then upgraded from there to my current Yamaha RX-V1800 (with HDMI and support of the HD audio formats). Since owning the Onkyo and Yamaha, I never have been able to reproduce the sq in 2ch as I so much enjoyed from the HK AVR55.

Needless to say, I was excited to come home to be able to compare my Yamaha to an HK. I hooked up the HK to an Integra Research RD-1 to my RF-83's and no sub. I set the HK to 2ch, flat response on bass and treble and played through my demo CD's and DVD's.

The clarity, separation and depth quickly brought me back to nastalgia. I once again remembered why I so much enjoyed the sound of the HK.

Just wanted to say that I am still of the mindset that HK makes a much better receiver for 2ch than Onkyo and Yamaha.

I'm hoping to pick up a pair of RB-5's tomorrow to pair up with the HK.

[Fish]

I just went through a period where I unhooked my HK and installed a Yamaha, it worked great but I quit listening to music on that set.I sold the Yamaha and reinstalled the HK, now I listen to music again and it sounds great.It's hard to believe such a huge difference but for me it's better to have slight hdmi issues with great sound vs works good sounds ehh....

[Rivernuggets]

Good luck in getting those RB-5s. That'll be a sweet system. Will there be a sub for that low end office thump?

Feel the same about HK's two channel awesomeness. I sold my HK AVR 525 after getting the UMC-1. Should have kept it for two channel. There is a 3390 through CL locally....looking into that one.

[Dennie]

That is great to hear, from both of you!

You guys are right though, I've never really heard of anyone being very happy with Yamaha or Onkyo with Klipsch, for music listening. They both make great products and I hear rave reviews about their receivers, just not from music "junkies" like us.

I'm happy for both of you guys and Congratulations on finding your Bliss!

Dennie

[Youthman]

.It's hard to believe such a huge difference but for me it's better to have slight hdmi issues with great sound vs works good sounds ehh....

My brain has been thinking all night if I should consider selling my Yamaha and switch to a HK with HDMI. I really need HDMI since I have a 30ft HDMI run to my projector. Are the HK's not good with HDMI? I have had no issues with HDMI with the Yammie.

Good luck in getting those RB-5s.

The guy is out of town until Friday. They are Mahogany finish but the woofers have some dents and creases in them. The grills won't stay on. He had them listed for $150 and I offered him $100 and he said sure. Figure for that price, it would be worth it. I don't want to spend $75 for each driver to replace them but I might see if I can buy new grills from Klipsch and keep an eye out on a used pair of replacement drivers for them.

Will there be a sub for that low end office thump?

Not sure yet. I'm still debating whether or not to use these at my work office at the chuch or in my home office. I would love to have a Klipsch bookshelf system setup at home connected to my computer. Would be much better than my Boston Acoustic Media Theater speakers (with blown sub). Not sure the wife is wanting more speakers though. It was her idea for me to build the HT so that the speakers wouldn't be in the living room or out in the open. They are tucked away in their own secluded room. But I'm working on her though. LOL If I set it up at home, I would probably get a small 8" sub. If I end up with it at work, I probably will not do a sub so I don't bother the rest of the staff with the bass response.

I sold my HK AVR 525 after getting the UMC-1. Should have kept it for two channel.

That's interesting to know. I even thought tonight about the Emotiva Pre/Pro thinking it would be much better in my setup for 2ch but maybe not.

There is a 3390 through CL locally....looking into that one.

I couldn't find a 2ch HK locally so I went with the AVR70. 80w x 2 will work out great to power those RB-5's.

That is great to hear, from both of you!

It has been awhile. You must hang out "over here" more than in HT. I rarely walk on this side of the street but maybe I need to spend more time here as well as in the HT.

[dtel]

If you are partial to the AVR receivers from HK for 2CH you would be completely in love with the sound of a older twin powered receiver like the HK 930. The difference in sound to me more of a difference than whats between the Yamaha and AVR HK, that much better.

Not much convenience in connections, only L&R RCA inputs, nothing else, but it makes up for it in sound. [Y]

imo

Not mine, just a pic I found, mine is in the closet under a CD player, used for the Cornwalls in the bedroom.

[Youthman]

Thanks dtel. I'm not familiar with any vintage gear but I hear a lot of vintage gear does sound amazing. There is one currently on the Bay.

[Rivernuggets]

They are Mahogany finish...

Very nice.....real wood veneer too! Finding some grilles, then casually looking for replacement woofers is a good way to go. The woofer crinkles usually don't affect the sound (cross those fingers).

If I set it up at home, I would probably get a small 8" sub.

My first Klipsch purchase in '94 was an SW-8 II, smallest of the powered 'SW' line. Still have it today and works like a charm. Used it with some Heresys for a while recently and it provided some decent low end for them. One bummer is these mid-nineties subs do not have an auto on....just a power switch on the back.

I even thought tonight about the Emotiva Pre/Pro thinking it would be much better in my setup for 2ch but maybe not.

It does well in two channel. I didn't mean to sound like I was bashing the Emo. I just enjoy having a dedicated two channel setup and shouldn't have sold my 525 so quickly. I didn't even do a two channel A/B comparison. Shame shame.

I couldn't find a 2ch HK locally so I went with the AVR70. 80w x 2 will work out great to power those RB-5's.

Are you interested in the 3390 I mentioned, or are you already set?

I was looking into it for myself to compare it with my vintage HK 730, BUT I've got plenty of stuff. If you're interested let me know.

[Youthman]

Finding some grilles, then casually looking for replacement woofers is a good way to go.

Tru

Are you interested in the 3390 I mentioned, or are you already set?

I think the AVR70 will work out fine for my application. I don't have a dedicated 2ch room or anything. It's all yours.

[Rivernuggets]

dtel speaks truth about the vintage HKs - they're delicious. My 730 is paired with a Sony CDP-C515 that has an analog volume RCA out. It goes from max gain (wherever your receiver is at) all the way down to quiet, zero. It works well with vintage stuff where you don't have a remote control for the volume.

This isn't my pic. Just wanted to show.

[willland]

My brain has been thinking all night if I should consider selling my Yamaha and switch to a HK with HDMI. I really need HDMI since I have a 30ft HDMI run to my projector. Are the HK's not good with HDMI? I have had no issues with HDMI with the Yammie.

Keep your Yamaha for HT, it does offer a somewhat "brighter" sound(that you like) that sounds better for HT(to me).

Save your coins, sell some other gear, and get this Parasound preamp with HT bypass mode.

http://www.parasound.com/nc/2100.php

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatran&1323750992&/Parasound-New-Classic-2100-

It matches your Parasound amp.

Bill

[Youthman]

Now that's pretty interesting. I didn't know there was a way to combine a receiver and a preamp. Pretty interesting.

I had not even considered the Parasound Preamp or Pre/Pro. My only concern is I would be buying something that I have never heard before and there probably are not many people in this forum that have either.

Here is one review of the 2100

The NewClassics make a fine
upgrade for those wanting to ditch their mass-market receivers and step in to
the world of hi-fi separates. Of note is that my Denon receiver sounds a bit
dull in comparison. The only word of caution I offer has to do with system
matching. The Parasound "sound" is uncompromisingly neutral, so combining it
with speakers that are similarly revealing could result in a system that is more
a tool than a toy. Some audiophiles will shudder at the mere suggestion that
there could be anything "wrong" with that, as the goal for many is to recreate
as accurately as possible exactly what the sound engineer intended in their
recordings. It is certainly a valid goal, but perhaps not the only one. Some
people just want to enjoy their albums, and find that a little honey in their
tone can help. The 2100/2125 combo could still work (and work well) for those in
that camp, you'll just have to get your coloration from a different link in the
chain.

I'm wondering if the "neutral" sound is what I'm looking for in 2ch.

[Fish]

I have a 40 ft hdmi cable from my HK to my projector, no problem.I have a 50 ft hdmi from my computer to my HK, no problem.The only issue with the HK is if you change inputs it blinks once or twice, not a big deal for the much improved sound for music and HT.

[StephenM]

You guys are right though, I've never really heard of anyone being very happy with Yamaha or Onkyo with Klipsch, for music listening.

What can I say, I think music on an Onkyo sounds just dandy. Then again, my music mix may be a bit more forgiving than some, with half of it being in country music (Lady Antebellum, Zac Brown Band, Kenny Chesney, Brad Paisley, Toby Keith, Johnny Cash, etc) and the rest being in classic rock (The Who, Queen, The Beatles, The Beach Boys, The Eagles, Skynyrd, and so on). I've also attended more than a few concerts (in the country mix listed I've seen them all live except for Johnny Cash), so I'd like to think I have some concept of what they should sound like. I've even owned a couple of HKs (a 3380 and an AVR-140), with the 140 in my bedroom driving a pair of bookshelf speakers []

I'd be curious to see what Youth thinks of a more current Onkyo with Audyssey MultEQ correction or better. Personally I think with Audyssey engaged vs my old HK AVR, there isn't much of a contest: the Onkyo delivers more even bass response, an overall warmer sound, and vastly more enveloping sound at any given volume.

[Fish]

There is no perfect unit for everybody so if one is happy then you're done.The HK does not have a blind following, it is widely held that HK does music great, no need for complete signal altering gizmoes to try to make it happen.We all have different standards and needs, I tried almost every popular new $1k msrp(some more) models, all very poor for music, even with their audyssey, ypo etc.....That's just me, don't apply to anyone else but I'm not alone.

Even many of those that must have a perfect operational unit miss their old HK's music.

[Youthman]

The only issue with the HK is if you change inputs it blinks once or twice, not a big deal for the much improved sound for music and HT.

I can deal with the blinking as long as it connects and I don't have to spend extra time trying to get it to handshake. I rarely switch inputs since the PS3 does everything. The only other input I have is TV (watch MAYBE 5 hrs per year) and the Wii (which we hardly play).

Steven, I'm not sure I would want to go back to Onkyo even with the Audessey. I agree with Fish that the HK doesn't use the room correction to make it sound good. To my ears, it just sounds sweet out of the box without adjusting any settings.

[StephenM]

HK does music great, no need for complete signal altering gizmoes to try to make it happen.

What can I say, HK does fine for music, but without advanced room correction, it isn't going to make magic in all cases, at least IMO. A cheap Insignia stereo receiver driving those bookshelf speakers in my bedroom absolutely slaughtered the HK/RF-5s combo in terms of musicality. It's not because Insignia makes awesome equipment, but because the bookshelf speakers are pretty darned good, and they happened to be in a very favorable acoustic environment vs the RF-5s. When I brought up the HK, sure it could go louder, but my toes haven't been tapping any more than when the Insignia was in there. Maybe if I sat there and tried to listen for minute details instead of just listening to music, I could possibly notice some difference, but that's not really the point of the hobby, at least to me.

And for the record, Audyssey isn't just some random "signal alterning gizmo". If you like your sound with no compensation for frequency and time domain aberrations, which are going to be a fact of life when you introduce a real loudspeaker into a real room, more power to you. For me, I happen to like something that gets me closer to reference.

[Fish]

I was not aware a live performance had room altering gizmoes in play to get to "reference".As I said, we all have differnent expectations and experiences, you or I don't have to be wrong, just hear different maybe.You are correct about listening for differences, if you have to concentrate on it there must not be much difference.The difference I and my friends hear is quite notable quickly with music

As to the HK/RF5 being slaughtered by Best buy brand..........I'll just pass on that....[:^)]

[StephenM]

As to the HK/RF5 being slaughtered by Best buy brand..........I'll just pass on that....

No reason to.

The bookshelf speakers in question, while being rather insensitive (I believe it was measured to be around 85dB @ 1 meter with a 2.83V input), were extremely easy to drive. Impedance never dipped below 8 ohms and was reasonably flat through much of the audio range, and the load itself was primarily resistive in nature. As far as the speaker itself, it utilized a nice Swan ribbon tweeter, and an Adire Audio Extremis 6.8 long throw woofer. The speaker was designed and built by a very competent DIYer who tried to turn his passion into a business. It's one of the best pure music speakers I've ever heard, including the uber-high dollar stuff and more reasonable items with a stellar music reputation like the Salk SongTower.

I was not aware a live performance had room altering gizmoes in play to get to "reference".

A. Depends on the performance. I'd bet in the concerts I attended, they employed quite a few gizmoes.

B. Your room is not the same as the space live performance was in. If you've got a big dip at 60Hz (like my room), you're not getting what the artist intended you to hear, even if playing the same instrument in your room would yield that same dip.

As I said, we all have differnent expectations and experiences, you or I don't have to be wrong, just hear different maybe.

Fair enough. I mostly entered since Denny said he knew of no one that was happy with Onkyo for music. You can add at least one to that mix, even if you think I'm nuts or deaf for it.

[Fish]

Sorry Steven, I don't think you're deaf or nuts, hey, you're a member.....with the right to choose/like what you want.The internet is all about opinions, we all have some.....just try to overlook me...[]