willland Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Denon rated 60 watts x 7 and rated at 1khz? Again I will note the current limiting circuitry that kicked in during the bench test to avoid possible damage. This is partially in place to protect(liability) the avr manufacturer in the long run. Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)1 channel driven: 183/298 W (22.6/24.7 dBW)5 channels driven (8 ohms): 132 W (21.2 dBW)7 channels driven (8 ohms): 60 W (17.8 dBW)* * Power tests on more 7 channels simultaneously (or more) quickly induced current limiting to a level of approximately 60 watts on all channels An outboard amp like the UPA-7 has higher tolerances and better quality output transistors for better power delivery and reduce potential clipping providing a a more consistant "cleaner" signal to the speakers. Naturally it will have better quality amps than most any avr. The Denon's 2-channel and 5-channel results are proof positive that the amp section is not too shabby as avr's go. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Wil, this is supposed to be a nine channel amp and the power drops off drastically there. Nic, I am not an advocate for Denon avr's and using an avr without an outboard amp. From my profile and many of my posts, an avr/amp combo or prepro/amp combo is the only way to go IMO. I just wanted to point out that most of the higher end avr's do have pretty potent amp sections(as avr's go) and the protective circuitry is what usually drags down the multichannel test numbers. I am a big fan of 80's/90's Denon integrateds but have absolutely no experience with their modern avr's. Mostly the thing that makes the least sense to me is members who have little or no experience listening to both 4810 and UMC-1 giving advise about the two side by side I will totally agree with this statement and encourage those who have no experience with either of these pieces to not give subjective opinions of either unless they have A-B'd them directly. Just wanted to also point out, Happy Thankgiving to all. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Denon rated 60 watts x 7 and rated at 1khz? Once again I'll defer to your judgement on the Denon. I'm sure if you like it on 7's it has to sound pretty good. That's not what the Denon AVR-4806 is rated at (what's posted above is for the AVR-4810), which is 182 watts into 2 channels and 114 watts into 7 channels: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_4/denon-avr-4806-receiver-12-2005-part-5.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 .. Mostly the thing that makes the least sense to me is members who have little or no experience listening to both 4810 and UMC-1 giving advise about the two side by side. This seems like a swipe at me after I've gaven you respectful response and I noticed you didn't answer any of my questions, which would help in understanding where your opinion comes from. Just because you had them side by side and feel you can do a better job with the equalizers on the UMC-1 than Audyssey can in the Denon does make one wonder some of the parameters of your experimenting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Happy Thanksgiving to you too Bill...and everyone here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I will totally agree with this statement and encourage those who have no experience with either of these pieces to not give subjective opinions of either unless they have A-B'd them directly. What do you feel objectionable about my posts? [^o)] Although I haven't done what you suggested, there wouldn't have been a second opinion regarding the Denon and I posted a link to the AVS "Emotiva Owners Thread," that had countless anecdotes from users to back up my position. Btw, Happy Thanksgiving to all of you as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shake777 Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Tk, I had the 4810 for well over a year with and without external amps. I compared the Denon and u for two weeks. No sense going there with the EQ because besides myself, I had two pros set it up per instructions and the Denon is just plain limited. It has no graphic equalizer and it is impossible to touch the range of possibilities that the u can. If you like your Denon fine, but it lacks in the undeniable fact that it has no eleven band graphic equalizer and while you can make the u do what the Denon can the opposite is not true. Happy Thanksgivng I'm gone for the day to eat turkey. Nic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shake777 Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Tk, Sorry to no offense intended and I only just got done answering your questions. Nic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 ..I compared the Denon and u for two weeks. No sense going there with the EQ because besides myself, I had two pros set it up per instructions and the Denon is just plain limited. It has no graphic equalizer and it is impossible to touch the range of possibilities that the u can.... Happy Thanksgivng I'm gone for the day to eat turkey. Nic Happy Thanksgiving nic and I will make this my last post on this thread as well...No disrespect to the pros or yourself that EQ'd your VERY NICE home theater, but some of us hobbyist have done more research and auditioning than most of the people that sell these products and set them up today. [8-|] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 What do you feel objectionable about my posts? TKD, I have no bad feelings about your posts. I was talking generally about many members that force their opinion on others when they have no experience with the said gear. I too have done it and try my best to catch myself and edit when necessary. I was really confessing my guilt and trying to show some contriteness.[:$] No negative connotations intended toward you or any other members. Good debates are still fun.[] Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Nobody here thinks that things such as Audyssey room correction are worth paying extra for? UMC-1 seems to have great reviews but yet it also seems like every time MultiEQ XT is brought up as a necessity for a new AVR. I've only used Yamaha YPAO and EmoQ before using Audyssey MultiEQ XT and I was very impressed with how much better Audyssey MultiEQ XT was. It only makes sense that using a room correction that takes measurements from different places in the room instead of leaving the mic in one spot would provide better results. As far as price maybe the "Blue Friday" sale they are having tomorrow at 5am will have an even lower price than $499.99 close out price! I had the UMC-1 for around nine or ten months and decided to sell it and replace it with an Onkyo PR-SC886 and couldn't be happier. Fellow forum owner Brac bought it and is very happy with the UMC-1. The reality is some people love the UMC-1, some do not. I don't think you'll know unless you try it. I don't regret trying it and worry that someday Emotiva will get a firmware that works and I should have waited longer but life is too short to look back and live in regret so I just enjoy my system now and smile. For me the reason for selling it was just the weird quirky things that the UMC-1 does, and I got frustrated with it. As far as sound quality I loved it for music but now after having the Onkyo in my setup I see I didn't know what I had been missing when watching movies, the Onkyo is a much better HT experience. Does that mean that you should run out and buy a Onkyo? No, but for me it has worked much better, but I'm not much of a tweaker to use the term thats thrown around the Emo Forum a lot. I ran Audyssey and made a few minor changes and have enjoyed the results ever since without one bug ruining my movie watching experience. Its really a YMMV type of situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Nobody here thinks that things such as Audyssey room correction are worth paying extra for? UMC-1 seems to have great reviews but yet it also seems like every time MultiEQ XT is brought up as a necessity for a new AVR. Welcome to the Forum blargman. I wouldn't say that the UMC-1 has "great reviews" but definitely seems like a good bang-for-your-buck...That being said, everyone hears things differently but unless you are a pro mixer the science behind Audyssey and room correction has come along way to making end-user graphic equalizers obsolete, imo. One person might want more bass whereas another would find it offensive and the goal should be to experience what the artist wanted us to in the first place...With multichannel sources being more consistent ( I hardly ever have to adjust anything but the volume) it is easier to accomplish that goal. +1 again not being a tweaker, and not really believing that someone can set up a system "right" by ear I feel more comfortable using a good room correction program. When I say right I mean the way the director intended the movie to sound, not some sort of personal opinion of what sounds best. I do adjust the center channel to help me hear the dialog on some movies, but that might have more to do with my hearing than anything Audyssey has done wrong. I blame cheap headphones turned up way too loud when I was younger not Audyssey! Like was mentioned for the UMC-1 my Onkyo also lets me make changes like that to speakers on the fly and goes back to the original way it was before when powered back on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonJCarney Posted November 24, 2011 Author Share Posted November 24, 2011 Thanks for the responses. What I'm reading is that emotiva still has some work to do before it can be compared to audyssey. I'm not a tweaker and I would rather set it and forget it if you know what I mean. I guess I'll probably wait for a deal on an onkyo rather then take the chance with emo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I'm just glad that at this site we try to treat each other like friends, not like that disaster at avs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I'm just glad that at this site we try to treat each other like friends, not like that disaster at avs. I LOVE the AVS Forum! [] Yet I got banned from the Klipsch Owners Thread 8 months ago for exposing a troll and they haven't let me back on since. [bs] I am embarrassingly still the number one poster on that thread (by far) and kept being accused of something that the cut-and-paste feature didn't substantiate (i.e., that I was "trolling," or being purposefully argumentative). Granted, it's not the Klipsch Forum but the science aspect of the conversations I found very informative, but over the last couple of years the Klipsch Thread has turned into an internet sales vehicle (outside of several conscientious Heritage posters) with not much critical discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 When I want to know if a tv sucks I may look at avs, for audio, nah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Thanks for the responses. What I'm reading is that emotiva still has some work to do before it can be compared to Audyssey. I'm not a tweaker and I would rather set it and forget it if you know what I mean. I guess I'll probably wait for a deal on an Onkyo rather then take the chance with emo. The UMC-1 is a tweakers dream, but if you're not a tweaker then I thnk you'll be much happier with a Onkyo pre/pro. I had the flexibility of the UMC-1 but didn't pretend to know what to do with it. As a result I was happy to sell it and buy a more self automated set up that takes the burden off of my unexperienced shoulders. I am a 5.1 guy so I saw no reason to go above the pr-sc886, but if you're a looking for more then research the the newer 5507,5508 or the soon to be released in the US 5509. Any of them offer the set it and forget it level you're looking for. I've never been happier than with my Onkyo pre/pro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I know mom likes set and forget stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivernuggets Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 River..... Don't you think that it's a jaded opinion since your previous avr didn't have hdmi? It's my opinion and you may interpret it to your liking. Yes this is my first HDMI processor and I feel $499 is a great price. I hope a good Christmas deal from Onkyo comes along. Whatever you get, post your thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonJCarney Posted November 25, 2011 Author Share Posted November 25, 2011 I didnt mean to say your opinion is worthless. Just that your obviously gonna see a big improvement in quality going from any pre hdmi avr to any avr with hdmi inputs. That's all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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