Any Interest in a Multichannel Music Forum?

[Zen Traveler]

There are several threads floating around in several forums about DVD-Audio and SACDs but not anywhere they actually fit except possibly in Home Theater. We could include DTS multichannel disks as well as Concerts on DVD and Blu-ray. I realize that we are a niche group but this is where 85% of my listening pleasure comes from and there are a myriad of topics we could discuss. If this is something you are interested in please post your thoughts and maybe Amy and Klipsch will give it a shot...Thanks.

[LarryC]

Showing my ignorance: what's the difference between multi-channel and home theater? Really, I don't know diddley about either. Thanks.

[odysseyrevolver]

Showing my ignorance: what's the difference between multi-channel and home theater? Really, I don't know diddley about either. Thanks.

In this context, "home theater" pertains to surround-sound film soundtracks, while "multi-channel" pertains to music mixed in 5.1 channels rather than stereo (2 channels).

[Zen Traveler]

Hey Larry, I can dig where you are coming from but folks in "Home Theater" basically watch movies whereas the Multichannel Music Forum would deal with Multichannel Music....The formats I mentioned seemed to be only appreciated by a few, but being a Movie buff with an embarrassing number of DVDs I became hooked when I put my first SACD of Dark Side of the Moon and since then, old albums in those formats come alive again and I've discovered new, old music, in the form of Steely Dan which seemed made for Multichannel! []

My guess is that less than 5% of people who own Home Theaters know there is a difference between any of the formats because they never actually experience a disk mixed for 5.1.....I think those that do would consider replacing their small side surrounds with towers and all of a sudden enjoy BOTH Movies and Music better. [Y]

If there isn't interest I will keep the topic alive on threads already created because this material really is under-appreciated cool! [H]

[Chris A]

If this is something you are interested in please post your thoughts and maybe Amy and Klipsch will give it a shot.

I have noticed the same issue - I usually post to the Music and Movies subsection under the Entertainment section. I notice that few go there, however.

I'm thinking that a better place to post the "Right this Minute" thread is under the Music and Movies thread, BYMAtD. It would be nice to see a two-channel and multi-channel thread under "Music and Movies". (I'm also wondering what is going on with the forum - it's posting three entries in the "Active Topics" view for the Right-this-Minute thread...? Is it due to too many postings in one thread?)

A DVD-A/SACD multichannel thread would make sense, but I also note that few here actually comment on the music itself, usually more on non-musical details. It's interesting that the forum members post so much on hardware stuff, but very little on music itself, which is why I own my system... [*-)]

I usually find myself drifting off to other forums to find information on high-quality multichannel disks. None of those other threads mention if the disks sound better on horn-loaded speakers... [N]

Chris

[Zen Traveler]

I usually find myself drifting off to other forums to find information on high-quality multichannel disks. None of those other threads mention if the disks sound better on horn-loaded speakers...

Chris

Chris, this is an EXCELLENT point and one more thing in our favor. [Y] Klipsch speakers are known to be detailed and the rub on that is crap-in=crap-out, for the most part but then there is the nuances of how certain disks perform on horn-loaded speakers. The consensus is that this material is cleaner than other sources and on my Klipsch Library Home Theater listed below, that's true on MOST disks but there a few surprises where some are "bright" and I would be curious to hear other Klischsters experiences on a particular disk.

[Zen Traveler]

..A DVD-A/SACD multichannel thread would make sense, but I also note that few here actually comment on the music itself, usually more on non-musical details. It's interesting that the forum members post so much on hardware stuff, but very little on music itself, which is why I own my system...

I am also with you on this and would love to post my impressions of disks, and there are also some hardware and setup issues I find interesting such as converting 5.1 to 7.1 effectively, the difference between WDST surrounds and Direct radiating speakers and where one could have benefits over the other in different situations...I am sure that we will hear from posters who benefit from having external amps on this material as well...Then there are the EQ programs such as Audyssey that does interesting things with this material and some settings work better than others on any particular processor and envirnment.

[Fish]

I think it would be great but I'm not sure how much interest it would get.I can see the upside and don't see any downside.I think you all have made a good case, count me in.I really use my 7's set for concerts and multi channel mostly anyway.

It would be cool if multi channel really took off like I hoped it would.I had high hopes and everybody benefits cause the 2/multi channel hybrids could bring others onboard.

[Zen Traveler]

Thanks Fish! Surely we'll have more to talk about than what's going in the Gamers section. [] Anyone else?

[Dennie]

I think a "Multichannel Music Forum" should or would benefit from including "High Resolution" disc's also. I've said it before and I'll say it again, one of the Best sounding disc's I own is "MFSL" Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" 24k Gold CD from '96 or was it '93(?).

Having a "Multichannel Music Forum" would exclude these great sounding discs. My HT and 2 Channel set up's are combined in one room. I don't really listen to "Multichannel" music. My HT is set up for Movies, with in-wall Di/Bi-pole surrounds and direct radiators in-ceiling for Back Surrounds, not multichannel music and I'm good with that. But I would be left out of these discussions, as I don't listen to "multichannel" music. But I have a nice size collection of SACD's and DVD-A's, Gold CD's etc..,that I very much enjoy in 2 channel.

Something to consider if creating a new forum for these formats.

Dennie

[Chris A]

I think a "Multichannel Music Forum" should or would benefit from including "High Resolution" disc's also.

If you are referring to two-channel or an LP, I'll agree to disagree - I think that's probably fodder for another forum area - and I believe that forum should be created since there are a lot of folks already here that listen only to two-channel.

I believe you will need a "multichannel setup" in order to contribute to a "multichannel" forum.

Just my $0.02.

Chris

[USNRET]

My favorite multi-channel discs are Eagles "Hell Freezes Over" and Cowboy Junkies "Trinity Revisited".

I would like to find more but a lot I have heard are not well engineered in my opinion. I like the ambience of the discs mentioned above but on some I hear an instrument coming from behind me....not liking that.

[Chris A]

Here is a really good multichannel recording (Messiah), IMHO.

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/155989.aspx

It's a little difficult to describe why this sounds so good - maybe because I can hear nothing wrong. Some of the vocal solos brings the little hairs up on the back of the neck (if played at the right volume), the choruses are clean with lyrics intelligible, and with no room modes interfering with the recording as you might find in the "large venue" recordings that are typical nowadays.

I used to not like the solos/recitatives of this composition, now I believe the solos and recitatives are the pieces to listen to most closely: I'd describe them more in terms of "song" than in terms of solos--due entirely to the quality of this recording.

Chris

[LarryC]

If you are referring to two-channel or an LP, I'll agree to disagree - I think that's probably fodder for another forum area - and I believe that forum should be created since there are a lot of folks already here that listen only to two-channel.

I don't want to try to speak for others on the forum, but there have been tons of posts for many years on LPs and 2-channel on the 2-Channel forum. The people I know who are interested in classical music and LPs automatically go to 2-Channel, and it seems to work pretty well. I don't know what purpose would be served by trying to change well-worn habits that work.

I don't know what a "high-resolution" disk is, or how it's defined. It's probably something I don't know anything about.[] If it's classical, though, I'd always go to 2-Channel first, since that's where everyone posts and reads on that subject. It and 2-channel equipment seem to be rather closely related.

FWIW, I still don't understand the difference between HT and multi-channel, or if there would be any draw for me to go to either one.[:^)]

[Chris A]

FWIW, I still don't understand the difference between HT and multi-channel, or if there would be any draw for me to go to either one.

If you listen to DVD-As and good multi-channel SACDs, I think you will find the difference to be rather startling relative to typical soundtracks on DVD-video. Possible exceptions are Blu-Ray disk recordings: Pat Metheny's The Way Up - Live and Ramsey Lewis's Legends of Jazz, Showcase disks are pretty spectacular, but they're about the only disks that I've got that has video and high quality surround sound.

The experience of high quality surround sound is pretty amazing for acoustic recordings - much more involving than most any two-channel or video disk production that I have. If you can find a high quality HT setup in your area (using Klipsch, if possible) you might have a similar experience like mine.

I've been slowing collecting existing DVD-As (which are slowly disappearing) and multi-channel SACDs for the last few years - and I put these on from time to time when I want a more life-like performance in-room. However, I can't listen to these recordings up at hand volume when there is anyone else in the area that is not "active listening" since it usually is fairly attention-getting (i.e., volume is pretty much up there).

Gordon Goodwin's Big Phat Band (...a modern stage band...) is really spectacular at on-stage listening levels--at least on my setup.

Chris

[Dennie]

I think a "Multichannel Music Forum" should or would benefit from including "High Resolution" disc's also.

If you are referring to two-channel or an LP, I'll agree to disagree - I think that's probably fodder for another forum area - and I believe that forum should be created since there are a lot of folks already here that listen only to two-channel.

I believe you will need a "multichannel setup" in order to contribute to a "multichannel" forum.

Just my $0.02.

Chris

Well, we'd have to agree first, Right Chris? Before we could agree to disagree! LOL

As I stated, I have a "multichannel setup". Reread my post if you need too.

I am not referring to LP's. This is a thread about SACD and DVD-A's or "multichannel music" not LP's, I don't know where you got that from. SACD's and DVD's have a "High-Res" 2 channel layer is all I was referring too and because it is a bit of niche market, I thought the "thread" and "contributors" might benefit from including discussion on those area's of the "Multichannel" disc. But, this is not my forum and you are welcome to exclude anything you want.

The thread title is asking if there is any interest, so I shared my interest.

Again, It was just a suggestion and because of the lack of interest in these formats, I was just seeing if including these areas of "multichannel" disc's and possibly K2 encoded XRCD's and "Gold" discs might be included, so more people might participate in the thread.

It is okay if the answer is No, it was only a suggestion.

Please carry on!

Dennie

[Chris A]

I believe that my vote is merely one vote, and your vote is one vote, etc. I believe tkdamerica wants more people to chime in - and I hope that they do. I just expressed my feelings on mixing two-channel with multichannel - that's all. You can agree to disagree - that's all right.

My argument is not really that strong but I'm anticipating a different breed of folks flocking-in if it includes two-channel, too. Nothing more. Actually, I see the advantage of what you're talking about, the devil is in the details, however, and that for me is spelled: a bunch of two-channelers in a multichannel thread complaining that there are too many multichannel threads that are being started, etc. I believe that you can see my point if you think about it.

Sorry for taking issue with LPs: I thought that I'd just throw that one in while I was at it (...I couldn't tell from your writeup when I wrote it if you were referring to an LP...).

"High resolution" formats abound:The SACD and DVD-A two-channel layers are sort of like HDCD, etc. I have learned that the actual format doesn't really make much difference (unless multichannel vs. two-channel) in listenability, but the better formats tend to attract better recording, mixing, and mastering practices. [] In fact, there is at least one JAES study that apparently shows that listeners cannot actually tell the difference between SACD and CD formats if you switch between the resolutions in blind testing using the same source (See The Audio Critic).

EDIT: This is from another thread: "I know at least one guy that bets on jockeys, not horses...The

analogy here is that the format (CD, vinyl, etc.) is more like the

horse, and the recording/mixing/mastering engineers are more like the

jockey...When I look for good recordings - I tend to look for 'jockeys', not 'horses'. (10 Dec. 2011)

BTW: I've found that the difference in HDCD encoded disks is very difficult to hear in two-channel, especially if using RCA cables instead of XLR (balanced) cables (I switched over about 4 years ago), since common mode noise tends to obliterate the greater resolution available with those extra bits/word. SACD is also supposed to address resolution issues, and it started out as mainly a two-channel format--now drifting rapidly to multichannel due to the demise of DVD-A. DVD-A actually has the best format of all in terms of multichannel resolution (by far), but of course that's the format that's disappearing.

Chris

[Zen Traveler]

I think a "Multichannel Music Forum" should or would benefit from including "High Resolution" disc's also. I've said it before and I'll say it again, one of the Best sounding disc's I own is "MFSL" Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" 24k Gold CD from '96 or was it '93(?).

Having a "Multichannel Music Forum" would exclude these great sounding discs. Dennie

Thanks Dennie, but as Larry and Cask05 have mentioned those disks woud be perfect to discuss in the 2-channel Forum.

I don't want to try to speak for others on the forum, but there have been tons of posts for many years on LPs and 2-channel on the 2-Channel forum. The people I know who are interested in classical music and LPs automatically go to 2-Channel, and it seems to work pretty well. I don't know what purpose would be served by trying to change well-worn habits that work.

I don't know what a "high-resolution" disk is, or how it's defined. It's probably something I don't know anything about .FWIW, I still don't understand the difference between HT and multi-channel, or if there would be any draw for me to go to either one.

Larry, I tried to explain it on page one but here are some links on DVD-Audio and SACD: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Audio & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Audio_CD There is also "music only" on DTS surround disk and a format called Dual disk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DualDisc

[LarryC]

Thanks, tkd. I glanced at the documents briefly, but passed on trying to understand them because of the density. Mostly, I think people are interested in a quality sound experience. Interest will only increase if there is a very great, clearly noticeable, superiority in sound. Otherwise, the outcome is a small, limited selection that withers away, while quality source components fade from the market. My perception is that SACD was not consistently superior enough for the necessary word of mouth to grow and people to want the product. Enough, that is, to snowball the continued issue of great new discs AND superior new equipment to match.

DVD's can be terrific -- I now have a fair number of classical DVDs, some quite superior even though recorded in the 1980's or 1990's as well as the 2000's. The main thing is you can WATCH the music being played. That's a tremendous advantage in enjoying it! Because of that, DVDs are a medium I can recommend, talk about, and buy more of.

Right now, I'd still post on classical DVD's in 2-Channel, because that's where classical music is for most members. I'm always up for a good discussion, though.

[Fish]

I think a "Multichannel Music Forum" should or would benefit from including "High Resolution" disc's also.

If you are referring to two-channel or an LP, I'll agree to disagree - I think that's probably fodder for another forum area - and I believe that forum should be created since there are a lot of folks already here that listen only to two-channel.

I believe you will need a "multichannel setup" in order to contribute to a "multichannel" forum.

Just my $0.02.

Chris

Well, we'd have to agree first, Right Chris? Before we could agree to disagree! LOL

As I stated, I have a "multichannel setup". Reread my post if you need too.

I am not referring to LP's. This is a thread about SACD and DVD-A's or "multichannel music" not LP's, I don't know where you got that from. SACD's and DVD's have a "High-Res" 2 channel layer is all I was referring too and because it is a bit of niche market, I thought the "thread" and "contributors" might benefit from including discussion on those area's of the "Multichannel" disc. But, this is not my forum and you are welcome to exclude anything you want.

The thread title is asking if there is any interest, so I shared my interest.

Again, It was just a suggestion and because of the lack of interest in these formats, I was just seeing if including these areas of "multichannel" disc's and possibly K2 encoded XRCD's and "Gold" discs might be included, so more people might participate in the thread.

It is okay if the answer is No, it was only a suggestion.

Please carry on!

Dennie

Dennie, I could never support excluding you [] I really think of it as a hi rez medium. I like multi channel but I kinda lump in my good 2ch sacd's with my multi ch disc.The hi rez is what I'm really after, even on multi ch disc I sometimes listen in 2ch.We always stray from the forum/thread title anyway, as long as it's about hi rez format of any kind I'll be happy, but it ain't my idea.