Zen Traveler Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 Thanks, tkd. I glanced at the documents briefly, but passed on trying to understand them because of the density. Mostly, I think people are interested in a quality sound experience. Interest will only increase if there is a very great, clearly noticeable, superiority in sound. Otherwise, the outcome is a small, limited selection that withers away, while quality source components fade from the market. My perception is that SACD was not consistently superior enough for the necessary word of mouth to grow and people to want the product. Enough, that is, to snowball the continued issue of great new discs AND superior new equipment to match. DVD's can be terrific -- I now have a fair number of classical DVDs, some quite superior even though recorded in the 1980's or 1990's as well as the 2000's. The main thing is you can WATCH the music being played. That's a tremendous advantage in enjoying it! Because of that, DVDs are a medium I can recommend, talk about, and buy more of. Right now, I'd still post on classical DVD's in 2-Channel, because that's where classical music is for most members. I'm always up for a good discussion, though. Larry, I can see we are coming at this from two different angles and I agree that 2 Channel Music can be appreciated in several formats and of course I see the value of DVDs with video being discussed in 2-Channel ....That being said, you and I listen to different Music genres and the difference in listening to the Talking Heads Burning Down the House from any two channel sources pales in comparison to the specifically mixed 5.1 version on Speaking in Tongues and is uniquely a MULTICHANNEL experience over the Awesome 2 Channel rendition in any format....In this forum folks could talk about the experience of watching Stop making Sensein the video format and could extrapolate how AWESOME all of the Talking Heads Audio 5;1 disks are comparatively speaking....This may not be music you are familiar with and I hope others that have your musical interest chime in, if you have a setup that would accommodate this material... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 I think a "Multichannel Music Forum" should or would benefit from including "High Resolution" disc's also. I've said it before and I'll say it again, one of the Best sounding disc's I own is "MFSL" Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" 24k Gold CD from '96 or was it '93(?). Dennie Hey Dennie, Given my comment to Larry are you saying this version is better sounding on a Multichannel System than the acclaimed SACD? EDIT NOTE: On this purposed Multichannel Music Forum folks could talk about their success converting two channel to multichannel and that also could spark some interest...Ya know, which formats work best, etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted December 5, 2011 Moderators Share Posted December 5, 2011 I think there would be an interest, multi channel concert DVD's do sound better than Cd's to me. I am now looking to find some bluray concerts hoping there even better. I only have a few SACD and DVD-A disc and gave up on them after seeing they were being phased out. What made me think about bluray concerts was the movie Burlesque on bluray, it sounded unbelievable, my daughter wanted to see it again a couple of weeks later and rated a DVD instead and the sound was not even close to the bluray version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arky Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I would try to participate in whatever music topic y'all decided on. As it is I follow a marathon concert thread over at AVS for reccomendations. I think it's up to 260 pages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 I think there would be an interest, multi channel concert DVD's do sound better than Cd's to me. I am now looking to find some bluray concerts hoping there even better. I only have a few SACD and DVD-A disc and gave up on them after seeing they were being phased out. I am with you dtel and when I watched my first dvd of U2's Rattle and Hum I was hooked on Concert videos and stopped listening to CDs....I don't go to the section that talks about dvd movies because I really don't want to hear folks opinion on those, but Multichannel Music can be appreciated over and over again and I like to hear what folks say about ANY music sources in multichannel....Insofar as those disks you mention that are going to be "phased out," I've found quite a few in the used market locally for a good price (under $10) and the auctions on e-bay sometimes go considerably under what the fixed prices are on these disks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 I would try to participate in whatever music topic y'all decided on. As it is I follow a marathon concert thread over at AVS for reccomendations. I think it's up to 260 pages. Hey Arky, thanks for chiming in. Yeah, I've posted quite a bit in their Multichannel section but some of those threads get so convoluted with things that have no bearing on the title...The next one I am going to comment on over there is the "Rate your Talking Heads Disks" which I think could be beneficial on other artists that people are unsure of as well....In other words, I could recommend Alice Cooper's Billion Dollar Babies, DVD-A to a person who was familiar with the music but wouldn't necessarily to anyone that hasn't experienced Alice. [6] The same could be said for Steely Dan, but their music is so well made that it could be easier to recommend to folks that haven't heard of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted December 6, 2011 Moderators Share Posted December 6, 2011 Insofar as those disks you mention that are going to be "phased out," I've found quite a few in the used market locally for a good price (under $10) and the auctions on e-bay sometimes go considerably under what the fixed prices are on these disks. I started looking online and shortly after that my Pioneer that did sacd and dvd-a died. So I just started looking at bluray players to replace it. To me the bluray sounds like the dvd-a's or sacd and should become the new dvd........untill they change things again. [] Either way to me it sounds like the better recordings today are on dvd or bluray. What would be nice is if they had just as good a recording when you chose to listen to a dvd in 2 ch, some do some don't but they are at least as good as a cd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted December 6, 2011 Moderators Share Posted December 6, 2011 The same could be said for Steely Dan, but their music is so well made that it could be easier to recommend to folks that haven't heard of them. Your right, Steely Dan's recordings are some of the best, I like the sound on "two against nature", very nice. On that disc some clown decided to have interviews in between songs, so you can't just let it play like a normal dvd, very inconvenient but a great recording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennie Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I think there would be an interest, multi channel concert DVD's do sound better than Cd's to me. I am now looking to find some bluray concerts hoping there even better. I only have a few SACD and DVD-A disc and gave up on them after seeing they were being phased out. What made me think about bluray concerts was the movie Burlesque on bluray, it sounded unbelievable, my daughter wanted to see it again a couple of weeks later and rated a DVD instead and the sound was not even close to the bluray version. Great call Dtel! I have well over 100 concerts on DVD, so that is something I could get into! Thanks Fish! I see and understand your point! [] Dennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 My perception is that SACD was not consistently superior enough for the necessary word of mouth to grow and people to want the product. Larry, I am almost choosing your comment at random, but this post is about a somewhat wider point. "SACD" is just a specification like Redbook. DSD is the actual recording algorithm used and it is consistently superior to Redbook and equal to analog. I've done blind A/Bs between some of the best available LPs to DSD copies I made of them and the choice rate was 50/50 with some pretty accomplished ears present. I use it to record for Redbook because there is no audible (to my poor ears, anyway) transcoding deterioration downsampling from DSD to PCM at any sample/bit rate. That said, it's all about the engineering and such extraordinary resolution amplifys sloppy engineering. Given how few truly "audiophile" quality CDs there are, it should come as no shock that there are so few outstanding SACD releases given the incredible resolution. IMHO, audiophile surround should come in 4 channels using the techniques like those I describe in the paper I wrote on SoundCube. 4 mikes, coincedent, placed in the best seat in the house. Playback through 4 identical speakers placed precisely inverse to the mike array. This yields as perfect "high fidelity" to an acoustic space/time event recording as current technology can provide. Wish I had the money and time to try 4 more as "center" channels all the way around as I believe this would be downright uncanny. Not an original thought, just an extrapolation from PWKs insistence on a third channel. In the worst case, it would extend the "sweet spot area" and it's hard to see how it could hurt anything if properly balanced. In any event, as current surround attempts almost never take any of these aesthetic considerations into account the success rate will continue to be pretty low as "surround" is synthesized rather than simply recorded. I think 2 channel is only 25% of the story. It's usually much better than surround efforts as it is easy compared to surround. But you gotta be pretty deaf or luddite to really believe that recordings that accurately record only 25% of the sound field and misreport the origins of the rest is anything like "high fidelity." Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 Hey Dave, you attributed Larry's quote to me, which I have no opinion on the 2 Channel mixes, but to say I prefer more channels to two...I will comment later on my observations about appreciating multichannel (in my case 5.1 converted to "7.2". [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 No sir, the forum did that. I attributed the quote to Larry. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 The same could be said for Steely Dan, but their music is so well made that it could be easier to recommend to folks that haven't heard of them. Your right, Steely Dan's recordings are some of the best, I like the sound on "two against nature", very nice. On that disc some clown decided to have interviews in between songs, so you can't just let it play like a normal dvd, very inconvenient but a great recording. I'm with you on that, great set but the interuptions made no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsaint Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I have a post, "pending moderation" with links to software used to create your own Multichannel mixes. I still need to edit/finish it but it's busy in the MOD cue so forgive me in advance for the mess it's in. I just wanted to provide a springboard to the next logical step. just in case here is one link that you should see. http://www.plogue.com/?page_id=56 Visit their forums. Also see http://www.wavosaur.com/features.php HAPPY MIXING! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted December 11, 2011 Author Share Posted December 11, 2011 The same could be said for Steely Dan, but their music is so well made that it could be easier to recommend to folks that haven't heard of them. Your right, Steely Dan's recordings are some of the best, I like the sound on "two against nature", very nice. On that disc some clown decided to have interviews in between songs, so you can't just let it play like a normal dvd, very inconvenient but a great recording. I'm with you on that, great set but the interuptions made no sense. I have no idea what you guys are talking about....I have the DVD-Audio and there are no interviews between the songs. [^o)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted December 11, 2011 Moderators Share Posted December 11, 2011 The same could be said for Steely Dan, but their music is so well made that it could be easier to recommend to folks that haven't heard of them. Your right, Steely Dan's recordings are some of the best, I like the sound on "two against nature", very nice. On that disc some clown decided to have interviews in between songs, so you can't just let it play like a normal dvd, very inconvenient but a great recording. I'm with you on that, great set but the interuptions made no sense. I have no idea what you guys are talking about....I have the DVD-Audio and there are no interviews between the songs. Whoever produced the DVD-A must have thought about it and got it right. That DVD is the only one I have that is like that, it's a really good recording but after every song is an interview, you have to manually skip it to the next song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted December 19, 2011 Author Share Posted December 19, 2011 I found this thread at AVS Forum Interesting which had folks list their favorite Talking Heads DVD-As in order. Fwiw, I listened to mine the last few days and came up with this: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1217491 1. Speaking in Tongues 2. Remain in Light 3. Little Creatures 4. Naked 5. Fear of Music 6. More song about Buildings and Food 7.True Stories *Note I don't have Talking Heads:77 and will update my list when I get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 tkd, you need the dvd of Two Against Nature if you don't have it.I think the dvd 5.1 sounds better than my dvd audio version, although it's great too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted December 19, 2011 Author Share Posted December 19, 2011 tkd, you need the dvd of Two Against Nature if you don't have it.I think the dvd 5.1 sounds better than my dvd audio version, although it's great too. Wow...I'll have to check it out because the MLP 5.1 is pretty outstanding and I thought the Benchmark compared to a Dolby Digital copy. Is it the one with the Interview interruptions you were talking about above? That DVD-A is one I put on and listen from beginning to end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Yes, it's the one, but the show is top notch.They do some old classics mixed with Two Against Nature.It will definately make your system shine and has always been my reference dvd.I think it's DTS best I recall. I remember when the cd came out, I could hardly stop listening, as you say begining to end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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