Eico HF-81 is here! Now what?!

[anarchist]

Hi guys,

Ok, it arrived this AM. Very good shape externally - cage is basically mint. Brass could use a minor polish on the front.

Opened it up. No signs of rust save for a bit of surface 'dust' on one tranny a rag will wipe off. Wiring looks good as do the solder connections.

Ok. Tubes. I was certain before plugging it in that one of them was bad. It is all white at the top where the others are silver or whatever it is. Inspected it closely and it looks like glass has chipped from inside. Plugged it in and appears majority of tubes are good save that one and maybe a couple surrounded by silver tubes? but I couldn't get a good look at all of them. Don't know if it matters at this point but outside of the tubes glowing and the on-light there was no indication the thing was on as far as audible anything.

Tubes: It has Eico by Mullard 12x7's, Eico by Mullard EZ81/6CA4's, 3 good (1 bad) 6BQ5/EL84's marked Gt. Britain, and I don't know what is in those silver tubes.

Ok. Stupid questions. How do you turn it off? After unplugging it, how long before you can touch inside without risk of electrocution?

Where do I get replacement tubes for those that are bad? Is there some test to do to determine how good the ones working are?

I have no clue so help me out here. Frankly, given the incredible condition of this thing ( I wouldn't believe it more than a few years old) and the fact I scored some Mullards (which I hear touted all the time), I am stoked with my blind purchase. Now I want to hear it. Next steps?

Oh yeah, the guy didn't provide much info in the auction but you would not believe the packing job he did. Christ, it was like one of those gags where you keep opening smaller boxes with more and more packing.

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HT - Klipsch Synergy Premiere

Audio - Heresy, KG4

This message has been edited by crash827 on 06-08-2002 at 12:08 PM

[Randy Bey]

Sorry to hear about your bad luck with the Eico.

You could send it to me for repair, or failing that, proper disposal.

I'll let you know if it's salvagable.

[mike stehr]

http://users.rcn.com/fiddler.interport/eico.htm

Schematic for HF-81.

You'll need to have the tubes tested, and replaced if needed.

Do a archive search on the HF-81 in the Klipsch boards, it should help.

I'll buy those tubes from ya!(HA!)

This message has been edited by mike stehr on 06-08-2002 at 01:13 PM

[anarchist]

Hi guys,

Did some more checking. Figured out those little silver dohickeys lift off. Final results: 2 Mullard EZ81's, 3 Mullard 12AX7's, I "Holland" 12AX7 - text largely wiped off taking tube out, 2 Mullard 12AU7's, 4 6BQ5/EL84's marked GT. Britain. All light except the 1 EL84 although I thought I saw it begin to glow and then it went dark. How is this for tubes? Where can I find a Mullard to replace the one 12AX7? And are those EL84's also Mullards or something else from England?

How do I test the tubes and what tools? Does it tell me remaining life or current strength?

Thanks for helping.

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HT - Klipsch Synergy Premiere

Audio - Heresy, KG4

[Randy Bey]

You won't be able to test the tubes w/o buying a tube tester, since the drug stores took out their tube testing stands a few months ago.

For replacement tubes, and you may want to just buy replacements as needed, or go for a full tube set, check out http://www.angela.com/ which I have bought from before several times and they are always good to work with. Buy from. Whatever.

Depending on how deep your pockets are, there are places out there that 'refurbish' older equipment. Never dealt with the likes myself, but for a hefty sock of cash they will do all the right things to it and make it better than original.

[anarchist]

Thanks Randy,

I will check them out. RatShack will have a tube tester right?

Well, being impatient and spontaneous and not knowing what I am doing, I hooked up my Heresies to this gizmo and plugged in a CD player.

My kid will not leave now even though he thought I was crazy when it arrived. I don't know what the bad tube causes but lack of sound ain't one of them. This thing rocks. Dead quiet when no source playing; great sound when playing. We have listened to Supertramp, Santana, Queen, Robert Plant, Linkin Park, Charlie Daniels and a couple of other things my kid likes. I am listening to 'We will rock you' right now and it is fantastic.

I have a sub sitting here and haven't even hooked it up because it sounds like it is already there. Holy cow?! I don't know what I like more the Heresies or the Eico - the combo is unreal.

Thanks to those who suggested I try this route - NOS, Kelly - and thank God the damn thing actually works. Now to replace those couple of tubes and toy with the idea of 'improving' it.

And will someone tell me how you turn the thing off outside of pulling the power cord!

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HT - Klipsch Synergy Premiere

Audio - Heresy, KG4

[Parrot]

To turn off, turn the treble control all the way counterclockwise.

[mobile homeless]

Those tubes might be not all bad. I have seen more than a few come in with tubes still good. The great thing is that you got lucky and have almost ALL Mullards with the Holland tube ranking right up there.

kh

[anarchist]

Hi mobile,

This thing is sweet. Yes, very lucky. Checked into that one 'Holland' and believe it to be a bugle boy. Well, it has been playing for more than a couple of hours and it is sweet. Gets pretty damn loud too. Have seen no need to go past 7 which is really loud. 5 to 6 is more than adequate - maybe that Joplin 2A3 is the ticket; after you review it. I figure I will get a tube tester from RS and see how the tubes rate but if sound is an indication they have no problems.

FWIW, I connected up the KSW200 subwoofer to it. Instant dissatisfaction. Lasted two minutes - the bass from the Heresies is going mighty deep and sounds far better and more accurate than with the sub. Guess I will put that up for sell.

So my thinking is - grab a replacement for the one EL84 that is bad, (maybe grab a mullard 12ax7 to make them all Mullards), polish the little guy up, and continue to enjoy until you tell me the Joplin is better. Oh yeah, damn, that one side of the amp - next to the transformer gets pretty warm doesn't it?

Your thoughts?

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HT - Klipsch Synergy Premiere

Audio - Heresy, KG4

[jazman]

crash,

Congratulations. You, based on your description, have an amp full of tubes that you could sell by themselves and get more than you paid for the entire unit.

The EL84's are probably made by Mullard because they usually screen them with, "made in Gt Britain".

The EZ81's(rectifiers) by Mullard are generally hard to find and considered by many as the best.

The "Holland" 12AX7 is probably an Amperex tube.

Under the "silver" tubes, you will find 12AU7 tubes, maybe more Mullards if your luck continues.

So yes, you've made out like a bandit, especially because it is a quiet unit. Mobiles EICO page has a section of suggestions for improving the HF81. I can't seem to get to it, maybe his server is down. There is also another modification page;

EICO Mods

Enjoy your HF81.

Klipsch out.

[NOSValves]

Crash

Great to hear you got a good one !!

Radshack doesn't have tube testers. If you need them tested you are more than welcome to send them to me and I have a spare Mullard 12AX7 that I can sell you to have your set matched. As far as the EL84's just buy you a set of JJ's from triode make sure you buy a Matched quad I believe there 39.99 they sound real good I have some that I've used in my scotts before.

Craig

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HH Scott 299 Amp

HH Scott LT-110B Tuner

HH Scott P-87 Turn Table

JVC JL-F50 Turn Table

Sony CDP-CA7ES CD Drive

1985 Walnut Heresey I W/Layne Audio Woofers

KSW-15 Subs>c>

[Chris Robinson]

Crash, I have Mullards in mine and my reaction was the same. Great amp, huh? I know there are some here who will tell you that you're not really hearing what you're hearing, but if you like it, good for you. You'd have to kill me to get mine. It's going to my son when I die, with a note that reads, "UFO (Ugly F*cking Oddity), but it sounds great. Please love and pass on. Dad)

Try a little Brasso on the front plate, some black spray paint on the body, and some brass-colored paint on the screen, and you've got a beauty.

The bass does really cook; not as tight as some amps for sure, but it sounds really natural and ubiquitous, without being too up front and in your face. It sounds GREAT with a pair of Klipschorns. Trust me.

Great iron in these babies. The caps dissipate pretty fast, so little danger of execution.

Do not throw into the tub while bathing to Supertramp.

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"Bullsh*t!"

-PWK-

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TWO-CHANNEL SYSTEM

Eico HF-81

Eico HFT-90

AES AE-25 "Superamp" (in temporary retirement)

AES AE-3 Pre-amp (in temporary retirement)

New Tube 4000 CD Player

1976 Klipschorns (KCBR's & ALK'ed)

HOME THEATER

Klipsch 1968 ALK Cornwall "II"s (LF/RF)

ALK Belle Klipsch (Center)

Klipsch Heresy (RR/LR)

Klipsch KSW-12 sub

Sonic Frontiers Anthem AMP1 (driving Cornwalls)

Sonic Frontiers Anthem AMP1 (driving Heresy's)

Denon AVR-4800

Toshiba SD-3109 DVD

[Conductor]

Crash, here is the url to Mobile's Eico site. Lots of good info there. (a tip o' the hat to the Mobester)

I used Barkeepers Friend on my faceplate. If you dissolve it first before using and rub gently it works wonders and doesnt scratch the brass. Then follow up with a good polishing with Brasso. Mine came out great.

Another tip: If you arent using this amp to play vinyl, then don't put any good NOS 12ax7's in the phono section where they wont be needed. Also regardless of what others might say about the Eico HF-81, I think it sounds magnificent with my Klipschorns. It might not be the bestest or the mostest of amps from that or any other era, but there is some serious magic that goes on when it is used to drive my Klipshorns in my living room. It kicked my Conrad Johnson integrated's *** to the curb. Many other Khorn/Eico users agree with this as do some Cornwall/eico users. Now I am glad to hear they work wonders with Heresys. Good luck with yours and enjoy.

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Talkin' 'bout...

Hey now! Hey now!

Eico Eico uday.

Jockamo feeno ai nane.

Jockamo fee nane.

[Conductor]

Oops, forgot to add the URL. Oh yeah, the on/off switch is the small treble knob unless yours was built to not be turned off and on with the knob for some reason.

http://home.earthlink.net/~eico_hf81/

This message has been edited by Conductor on 06-08-2002 at 09:50 PM

[mike stehr]

The HF-12's Jazman sold me do well on Chorus II's.

Some may disagree with what I have done to them, but I like them.

The SVS subwoofers are unhooked, the Chorus's do just fine without them using the tube amps.

(Though I am curious to see how the subs would match up, probably won't be too thrilled on most material,

except bass heavy stuff.)

The Eico's are not the most attractive, the power transformers broil, and have some mediocre parts at best.

But a good unit with NOS tubes, seems too match up well with Klipsch's.

Quite a few say this.

But this is my first tube amp experience, and haven't

heard much else in the way of brands of tube amps, BTW.

Beginner's excitement, I guess.

It's a change from Solid State.

THANX!

[anarchist]

Hi guys,

Well, I listened until late (early this morning) and will try to articulate my findings and provide this newbies review of his first tube/heritage experience.

As I listened casually to the EICO, I kept hearing sounds that suddenly caused me to feel like I heard it in the room; now the sound was coming from the speakers in the room but this was the item making the sound seemed to materialize in the room. I listened and kept thinking that is neat. I decided to take a more active role in listening. I went through some Jewel, Neil Young, Dire Straits. I was hearing something but I couldn't lay my finger on it.

During Neil Young (Goin Home), it came together. As I listened I became decidedly aware of the drums playing in the background - in fact, I 'knew' exactly where the hi-hat, tom-tom, crash cymbal, etc. where located. I could hear the variations of the metals used, I could hear whether the hi-hat was muted or not, I could hear the shimmering and fading away of the crash cymbal as it was played. I WATCHED a drummer's movement across a drum set.

I needed to get a grip. I marched into the other room and queued the same track on my KSP400's through the Yamaha. I focused and listened. The sound was fantastic, very good, unbelievable, but...the shimmering of cymbals ended too abrubtly, the difference in sounds was not as pronounced, the instruments were not revealed in the same place. I heard the drums and they were good - but I no longer saw them.

It is difficult to describe, but one music system disappears and instruments, singers, etc. take its place and you feel like you can reach out and touch the different voices you are hearing. You can 'feel' their presence. It is surreal. I can't imagine and don't know what effect actually having all four (instead of 3) EL-84's working would make. The other system is very good sonically but it doesn't cause the same religious experience.

Frankly, I didn't believe a word about tubes I have heard on this forum and could have been described as a 'hostile skeptic' but I have been stunned and converted. Maybe it will wear off, but for now I believe.

NOS, send me a PM on that Mullard 12AX7 if you will and what you want for it. I may get those JJ's you suggested but think I am still gonna try and find another Mullard to replace the one bad EL-84. I am going to seek out a tube tester to purchase or locate a shop that has one just so I can see what the values of these tubes are. Your offer to test them for me is great but that would mean I couldn't listen to this gem while they were in transit.

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HT - Klipsch Synergy Premiere

Audio - Heresy, KG4

[mike stehr]

Are you listening to both sides of the HF-81 with only 3 output tubes?

And it works?

Or you just listening to one side?

Anyways, it's good to see you didn't get burned and enjoy your HF-81.

[anarchist]

Hi Mike,

I am listening to both sides - I think. Speakers are connected to each speaker strip. Amp is on normal stereo. Source is a PS2 (what a CD transport! ) connected to amplifier in stereo. I am listening in stereo. Selecting amp 1 plays one speaker, selecting amp 2 plays the other speaker.

It works... well, exceptionally. Still, I want to get that dead EL-84 replaced.

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HT - Klipsch Synergy Premiere

Audio - Heresy, KG4

[ShapeShifter]

Kudos crash on a great buy!

Many of us had the same initial experience.

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KLIPSCH IS MUSICf>

My Systems f>s>c>

[mobile homeless]

Well, I would not be running it too much with only three output tubes. ARe you sure the 4th Mullard is totally out? If you do want to go with something less expensive that still sounds very good, try some 60s vintage RCA/GE EL-84/6BQ5. I have a few quads of these I picked up for peanuts at a shop getting rid of tubes and they sound much, much better than the any of the new stock of EL-84. The JJ are pretty reliable but I dont think they have the magic of NOS. Some also like the Ei EL-84 but I prefer NOS if you can find them. Makes a dramatic difference to me in this position.

Just REALLY be happy you have the 12AU7 and 12AX7 Mullards as these are just EXCELLENT tubes. Ditto with the Mullard rectifiers, the best of the bunch as well. Make sure your extra 12AX7 that does not match goes in the phono section.

Did you hook up your speakers to the 8ohm or the 4 ohm taps? Have you input going to the top two RCA which, if wired correctly, will be the bottom selection on the Input Select switch. The use the NORMAL setting on the Function switch. Make sure both the inner and outer bass and treble controls are aligned straight up as it's very easy to neglect this and get uneven response. These tone controls are fairly coarse so some experimentation on achieving the best alignment is good.

The EICO HF-81 has excellent openness and a wonderful soundstage. This integrated comes the closest to the openness of SET amps of any of the integrateds, I have found. BUT it really helps to have everything else up to par. Speaker placements and source components make a big difference here in what you can wring out of this little pedestrian looking unit.

Once again, I would not be too prone to running this piece with one of the outputs out. It sounds like it is just WEAK, which is far preferable to dead. Still, you need to see if you can find some replacements. Perhaps get a quad of RCA or GE EL-84 as backups. Not sure of the quest for the single Mullard EL-84. Great if you can pull it off although matching pairs of EL-84 are better.

I have pictures of the interior and exterior along with a semi-completed page.

http://home.earthlink.net/~eico_hf81/eico_hf81_wiring.htm

Go to the links section for good pages to scan.

You got lucky and really scored here.

kh

ps- Still trying to understand why after reading all the discussion on tubes you didnt believe a word of it? Many of the people now fully entrenched in tubes have been through the solid state quest. I, for one, went from very nice SS to top notch solid state hi-end power houses working up to 200w MOSFET Monoblocks that were very nice. I even kept a solid state amp along while delving into tubes. I finally sold my last SS amp a few years ago as I just couldnt use it anymore. Even though it was considered an excellent amp, even my most mediocre performing tube amps was more true to life and musical. I went from 200w per channel with top notch specs and damping factor etc to 3.5w a channel. There was simply NO COMPETITION. While I am not totally against SS amps, as they have their place, it would take something I have yet to hear to sway me to purchase another. I have listened to Mark Levinson, Krell, Bryston, Classe, B&K, Bedini, Acurus, Adcom, McCormick, Boulder and more. Many of those companies make fine products. I find my valve amps to be better respresentations of all things MUSIC related.

Phono Linn LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point

CD Player Rega Planet

Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified

Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks

Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect

Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover

system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s>

This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 06-10-2002 at 11:28 AM