Do your school grades reflect who you are today?

[Mallette]

Duty, honor, integrity, love, all these are more important than grades. I had lousy grades in high school, and barely stayed in my first few years. A professor finally clued me in to the simple secret:

1. NEVER miss a class

2. Do EXACTLY what the professor says, nothing more, nothing less.

Applying rule 1 guarantees graduation. Add rule 2 if you want honors.

Within a year, I was cruising at 4.00, without even feeling a sense of strain. Had one B on my graduate degree from a really clueless grad teaching fellow who to a dislike to me.

But here is what I think is REALLY important: Friends and family. Everything else is pretty much BS. Life can be short and brutal. Get and give all the love you can. Immerse in music...and SHARE it with family and friends. If you develop a sense of love, honor, duty, integrity, your grades will be fine. Without those things, your grades are meaningless and so is your life.

I am 52, have a 6 month old baby boy who is the light of my life, a gorgeous 4 year old girl makes me smile the moment she enters the room, and a wife who gave up the bedroom to my Klipschorns. I am the richest man alive!

I might add that this thread is absolute proof of the civilized and wondrous folks who make up audiophileland, and the Klipsch denomination in particular. Lots of varied opinion, all with good faith attached. Love it!

Dave

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David A. Mallett

Average system component age: 30 years.

Performance: Timeless

[skonopa]

Here is my take on the whole thing. I did pretty good in high school, got 3.49/4.00 (was pissed at the time for missing honors by one friggan .01 of a point). Did decent on the SATS (1100 - nothing spectacular, but above average) and graduated with honors from college (3.5). My degree is in Computer Science and currently working as a software engineer on defense projects. I have been doing it for over nine years and I still love my work. I am doing quite well, although I do believe what dougdrake said, running your own business is the only way to really make it. Unfortunatly, only a very tiny number businesses actully succeed.

Personally, do the best you can in your school. I think it does make a pretty good indication of how well you applied yourself. Granted, good grades is not the be all/end all, but it does certainly help. In this day of age, why risk it. You could be apsolutly perfect in every other regard of your life, but crappy grades could haunt you.

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Steven Konopa

Fredericksburg, VA

Denon AVR3802 (Receiver)

RF-7 (Fronts)

RC-7 (Center)

RC-7 (Rear)

RS-7 (A Surrounds)

Infinity RS2000.5 (B Surrounds - recycled)

REL Storm III (Subwoofer 1)

Yamaha YST-SW40 (Subwoofer 2 - Recycled)

JVC XV-S65GD (DVD)

Sharp DX-200 (CD - ancient)

RCA DWD490RE (DirecTV/Ultimate TV receiver)

Sharp 32 inch (TV)

[kev313]

As an attorney in Chicago in my mid 20's, I often think to myself, "What the @#$% am I doing in a suit, I was just hangin out in college playing playstation all day like 3 years ago??!!!?" "How the hell did this happen???" Was it my grades? Sure; NO!; and is that what is really important?

#1

Sure: Yeah, OK, I would not have gone to law school if I had not achieved some degree of academic distinction in all the levels and on all the standardized tests that came before it. Also, I would not be working in a major market if I had done done well in school. That is a hard fact. But, in the interest of providing competent service to clients (insert your fave lawyer joke here) i think these standards might be a good thing.

#2

NO!

Networking, personality, interests and who the hell knows what tickles the fancy of a person who interviews you may get you a job. OK...not having good grades and, therefore, not obtaining certain degrees will shut some doors for you, and are important and I donot mean to suggest otherwise, but there are other factors. True story: I was hired at my current law firm b/c I played hockey for the same team as one of the partner's kids when I was younger.

#3

Does it matter?:

Try to define success by how happy you are not how many khorns you can afford. (ok maybe you can't seperate those two concepts.) Do what you like and you will be successful. Is that Naive?...could be. But i have found that you will be most successful doing what makes you happy. You just work harder. I have a lot of friends who make top $$$ as 1st year associates at big chicago firms. Here, its not me, so i'll put a number on it: $120,000 first year, before bonus. That is an assload of cash. They work 75-80 hours a week. That is an assload of hours. Are they successful? Some like it. They are. Many hate it...they are not. (Q: What did you do when you were 25, 26, 27? A: Oh crap. I dunno I worked all the time.) (By the wayKain, that jump from h.s. to post college doesn't take as long as you think!!)

Also, it was said above that there are plenty of lawyers whose degrees are not coming out on the happy side of the cost benefit analysis or **GASP*** do something other than practice law. True, and this raises a broder issue that other have also addressed. What is the value of all this education? Is it a job? Is it more? For me, it was getting a job, but also much, much more. College and law school shaped not only my opinions but also the faculties I use to form those opinions. Look...school is not only an end to a means. It is an end in itself. Education is inherently good. I'm rambling so i'll shorthand it: Read a book not juist b/c it'll get you a job, do it b/c it makes you a more informed, better able to contribute, and interesting member of society.

kevin

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Two Channel System:

Klipsch Fortes (1988)

Jolida 202a

Rega Planet

Denon DP 3000 tt (Stax tonearm; Grado Gold cart.)

This message has been edited by kev313 on 06-10-2002 at 09:26 PM

[SOUNDJUNKIE]

Good say Kev. So...was that hourly, flat or gratis?

[Ray Garrison]

KAin64,

It depends very, very much on what you want to do with your life. If you want a career in something like a senior research chemist with a major pharmacology company, or you want to go to work for Microsoft or Intel or Hewlett Packard or someone as an engineer, or you want to join a prestigious law firm, or you want to work as a physician in a major hospital, or any number of other, similar types of work, then your grades, your extracurricular activities, your various test scores and the schools you decide to attend (not necessarily in that order) will matter a *GREAT* deal.

If you want to own your own business, then getting a basic understanding of accounting and business administration is important, but grades per se are a moot point.

There's also the point that most folks I know didn't really know what they wanted to do for a living when they were 19 or 20 or 22. I've been working with computers in one form or another since 1979, and in my entire work history I'd say the number of people who had a degree that somehow, in some way, was related to computers or technology were outnumbered 10:1 by people who had done something completely different in school and wound up in PC's or networking or database design or whatever through some twisted path of fate. I, for example, have a biology degree. I thought I wanted to be a teacher when I graduated, but couldn't find a job. Through a long and tortuous series of events I could never have foreseen, I wound up working with computers and databases. I've been a partner in my own networking company, the Senior Computing Support Specialist for a utility company, the Chief Information Officer of a multi-billion dollar finiancial transaction company, the Chief Technology Officer of an Internet B2B Exchange, and am currently broke and unemployed, said Internet B2B having imploded in stellar fashion. None of which has anything to do with my biology degree.

Oh, I also got 650 verbal / 700 math SATs, a 700 on my math achievement and an 800 on my physics achievement, went to Rensselaer on an early admissions basis to their honor's physics program, and flunked out 'cause I spent all my time playing pinball.

Oh well...

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Music is art

Audio is engineering

Ray's Music System

[boa12]

& don't go out partyin the night before the tests. i did &, at 19 took the act (what everyone in iowa took unless they were going ivy, & well act is outta ia city, ia). got a 24/36 there. but to get in a state university it only took a 2.0GPA.

fortunately i went to a state university that required quite a bit of study. they graded on the curve.

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My Home Systems Page

[IndyKlipschFan]

Your 17..... Is it safe to assume your going to be a Sophomore or a Junior next year in High School? My guess by this question is you found out that your grades in school for the first time in your life... count. Yes, we have to use something to measure performance of people mastering a topic or concept somehow. If your grades are bad, you have 2-3 more years to change yourself for the better. And College entrance applications will actually look better if you do better each semester and grow to a better GPA. TIP.. Your essay can be about growing up, assuming responsibility for yourself, your actions, and your future... And how college will open doors to this.

From what some people said before on this topic, I agree. "For good or for bad, the road to a degree at any level is a constant process of sitting in classes, and pleasing a teacher with homework, and test results. " But that can also be said for your employer too.

I know "intellectually constipated" people who are trapped in terrible frustrating positions in corporations that they do not fit in, and eventually sometimes painfully so, drop out of life. I also see and know what seems like people with no brains at all, who are very very successful. Life isn't fair, either way.

I think, if I can give you any advice, I will share what my father did with me at about this same time in my life, as you are today. So here it is.

"Where you will be in 5 years will depend on 2 things."

#1. The people you associate with. (You can take this as successful people, people that encourage and challenge you, and like others said in here, your family and close friends. When you get older you realize just how important they are to you. Hang out with losers, and see yourself become one too.)

And #2. The information you process.(You can call this school, or on the job education. It may be a new skill or something to make you valuable to your employer and ultimately for yourself. Reading comic books etc. will never make you rich.)

My point here is, to be successful at anything..... Requires hard work, and yes some luck along the way. People often point out Bill Gates.. True, he left Harvard. He was very smart, had already a very good business savvy mind, and was already "successful". I think he is, however, a bad example for everyone to use. That would be like me as a Junior High kid playing basketball saying, "Well could I be Michael Jordan", or singing in the choir, but wanting to be a famous rock star. I say this, because examples like this are one in a million happenings. (OK, So like Alan Jackson said, "Wooo hooo... I only have to make, on average, one fan out of every 289 people in the USA. I can do that". Yes, there are many many millionaires that were at some time average people, that later on in life succeeded in very "average" businesses... and became rich. Well on paper anyhow! Again, most eventually owned their own businesses, and again worked very hard. Read the book, "The Millionaire next door."

As a side note...

My nephew had a friend who 2 weeks before he was to be his college roommate, was late for work (again) and stopped to get cigarettes and a 5 dollar lottery ticket. To make a long story short. He won.. Really big... 6.8 million after taxes. Is he a success? No, he has no drive to do anything, He dropped out of school, he has lost most of his friends, and he has serious drinking and drug problems. I am sure someday we will read that he lost it all ... in just a few years.

As for me. I am now 40, married 8 great years, and just 8 months ago know the feeling of fatherhood. I was with my wife in the delivery room as we brought our little girl into our lives after years of trying unsuccessfully. I have a few great friends, and I am close with my family. I am able to help others through money to various charities and spend time on projects that I know I can help others out on. So "The people I have chosen to associate with," have made me a success on the inside and outside. Number 1 remember??

As for number 2, "The information you process." I was a 3.35 + - student in HS (4.0 scale) and had a 1260 on my SAT. (Who memorises or remembers this stuff or even cares anyhow? I am always amazed at people that can tell you evry grade they had in all thier classes in their past.) I went to a top 10 Business school and graduated with B's. I went into Direct Sales where I learned the "School of hard knocks" and learned how to survive. (100 cold calls, plus regular customers a week.) I later went into medical sales, where I fell into the first year lawyer trap of 60-80 hrs of hard work and $$$ a year. This, too, "looked" like success... Until I started to notice where in just a few years I lost what was going on with my friends, and a little with family, because I was not around to enjoy and share in their lives too. I later learned a very valuable lesson because I was downsized in a reorganization. Read fired. At 28, I was burned out, very frustrated, and confused too. Is this what success is all about? No, it was not. But, I wasn't through with "me" either.

I then went to work for a very wise and succesful businessman. He was in the Investment Business, managing money for people. He saw my potential to learn his business, and add my energy and marketing skills to his theory and research abilities. He built this business from scratch from 1964. We have built it together even better, since 1989. Even in this tough stock market.

I still work hard. Because I owe it to myself, and my clients, to do my best. Is it easy? No. I still read a lot to keep me updated, and go to "school" to better my skills, but it is in balance. I later learned to have those words mean something "Where you will be in 5 years will depend on 2 things." Applying the rules #1 and #2 to my life. When I figured this out, and keep life in balance, and it works. I am back financially and emotionally to where I once was, and then some. ( Hey, how else can we afford these fabulous Klipsch Speakers? LOL...) If I can use fatherhood as an example, (Excuse me, but this is to be my first experience with Fathers Day this weekend), Life is great!!

Ultimately, other than some of the skills you get in college, trade school, etc., most employers will not even care what your major was. Just that you have a 4 yr degree. More important, are the skills and inner drive you have today, and what it will add to the "team" today.

I hope my advice helps you in your "life's journey." You can re-invent yourself to be something different if you apply yourself and work hard. Just remember....

Where YOU will be in 5 years, will be ultimately decided by these two rules. "The people you associate with, and the information you process.

This message has been edited by IndyKlipschFan on 06-14-2002 at 12:03 PM

[j-malotky]

Been avoiding writing anything here.

I am not the best person to give advice to younger people. I have made a lot of mistakes in my 39 years on this planet and wont bore you with my life story either.

Education will get you in the door and give you an edge over people without education or experience, but your drive and overall attitude that will make you a success.

Does your education define who you are - maybe for some people, Not me. If you have the drive, dedication and attitude, you will be a success in whatever you do in life. Can you be a success without higher education, sure. Can you be a success without friends, absolutely not.

I like Indy's post and advise. I can relate to most of the advice given on this thread.

No matter what you end up doing, remember to enjoy life. Dont get caught up in the "When I achieve this level I will be a success" or the "When I make $150K or whatever number a year I will be happy". There will always be a next level.

Dont get me wrong here. You have to have goals and achievements you need to strive for and work hard for. What I am saying is - Do not live solely for them. You need to have healthy work ethic and be dedicated to your family and friends.

Enjoy every day, even the challenging ones. Come out of each day learning something new. Make sure to spend time with your wife, children and friends. They are what really count. If you make time for them, they will make time for you.

You never hear anybody on there deathbed wishing they had finished that one more project or worked more 90 hour weeks to make there boss happy. They always wished they had spent more time with their family and friends.

Good luck in your future.

JM

[j-malotky]

One more thing....

Justin, can I call you when I am planning my next vacation????? Can you start a BBS discount plan???

JM

[forresthump2]

YES and I had a 1.5 LOL But I'm more like the Michael Jordan example. I studied hard but in different area.

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Go Forth and Hump the World

This message has been edited by forresthump2 on 06-12-2002 at 12:44 AM

[WMcD]

I'm a bit worried about the open ended nature of Kain's question, and the comments made all round.

If he is down in the dumps about a rough time in school at his young age, that is one thing. Could be family, girls, not knowing where he is going, etc.

On the other hand, we've been talking about careers, optimization of investments in a given program. Quite unrelated.

Gil

[lynnm]

I see education as a lifelong process - not a terribly original thought but true for me at least.

I took a Master's degree in social work and worked in that field for a number of years and then experienced burnout and knocked around for several years in a number of occupations.

A couple of years ago at the age of 57 I enrolled in a computer training course because I decided if I was going to have to retrain at my age then I was going to retrain in a field in which I was interested and in which I was already highly skilled.

I now work full time for a major computer support company as a hardware tech,(PC's and Laser printers mainly).

I suspect that the biggest factor in determining one's academic or vocational success relates to one's level of interest,determination and enthusiasm for the work involved.

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It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca.1900)

[lne937s]

I have to say that grades are very important, especially if your parents are not millionaires.

My little brother made one B in high school and competed in science competitions. During college, he never had a job, got no money from scholarships, and had no loans. After paying for tuition, housing, and all other expenses, he had enough money left over from scholarships to invest, ending up (including the money he had saved up for college but never spent) with over 50k in investments.

During college, he also made one B in a challenging Computer Science program. He made $24/hr plus benefits at an INTERNSHIP with HP (Most interns work for free or, if they're lucky, make minimum wage). Upon graduation he got a job in St. Louis designing flight simulator software for only $60K (he had been turning down jobs for up to $80 while he was a junior, but that was before the downturn in the tech job market).

I didn't do as well in high school, making mostly B's. During college, I had to work to support myself. I did OK. In Grad school, I made mostly A's (C's are failing grades in grad school, make 2 and you're out).

Now I work in advertising. Even though entry level advertising doesn't pay very well and the economy has hit the industry really hard, there is a lot of possibility for advancement. You still have to work really hard and intelligently (60-70 hrs a week). When you look at the people making 6-7 figures you see what all the hard work is for. It can be hard at the entry level when you see the kids who graduate High School with you who are making almost $40k screwing bolts into Fords because of some BS union contract, but you have to remember that they will still be screwing in bolts for about the same money 20 years from now. In addition, I get to work on international marketing strategies while they get to screw in bolts.

I think that HS grades are important for teaching you how to work and getting you ready for college. In college, you learn just as much about people and maturity as you do academically. College gives you the unique opportunity to try new ideas and approaches in ideal environments and (unless you get carried away) have very few negative consequences when you screw up. And you will have some of the best times of your life. However, the higher up you go, the more important grades become.

Now, if your dad is a billionaire legacy, he can buy your way into a good school with contirbutions and pay your way through. However, he could also probably buy you the contacts and give you a high payed BS job you need to succeed (Tommy Boy).

However, I would tell you to keep you grades up simply because high school is so amazingly easy that if you apply yourself you can make the grades unless you are and idiot (in which case BOSE has some speakers for you). Laziness and lack of focus are horrible habits to get yourself into and really hard to break. I have seen many people have the military beat the laziness out of them, but it's better not to have to rely on others to motivate you.

Make the grades

Larry

This message has been edited by lne937s on 06-12-2002 at 04:01 PM

[Klipschguy]

<EDIT>

This message has been edited by Klipschguy on 06-12-2002 at 04:54 PM

[SOUNDJUNKIE]

<EDITED-- Don't understand what happened to the first

post>

This message has been edited by SOUNDJUNKIE on 06-14-2002 at 05:44 PM

[IndyKlipschFan]

I updated my essay above with some more thoughts. I hope you find it helpful.

[michael hurd]

I truly believe that life is a long learning process. You can never know too much. But on the other hand - becoming a nerd/bookworm/etc. will alienate you from other people. Not to say that not to achieve great marks, but also to meet new people, and develop some "people skills". I'll never forget my last boss - worked in a bank from the age of 17, and kept advancing to the position of financial advisor. When he decided to take over the retail store I worked at, it was pure hell. He would insult you and then laugh, he was terrible dealing with customers, all he cared about was the bottom line figure. When the sales started falling off because of his attitude dealing with people ( I live in a small town , he came from a very large city ), he decided to start laying off staff and trying to overwork the rest. I left, voluntarily at that point and never looked back. Now, I am working towards my body repair licence, and couldn't be happier. This is the last day of my first level of schooling, I have graduated at the top of the class, but more importantly, I took the time to help others who were struggling with welding, metal finishing techniques, etc. Because of this, the entire class looked up to me, and kept asking my opinions on their work, and I would always help them out if they got in a bind. The instructors ( some of them anyways ) were too busy bidding on items on e-bay to help the students. If they did come by, they would not tell you how to do something, just tell you that it was wrong and walk away. This was a joke ! I have the phone numbers and addresses of many of the students I met, from all walks of life, because they regarded me as impartial and genuine.

• 1. Show up on time 2. Participate in theory discussions 3. Help others that are struggling - this doesn't mean do their work for them 3. If you don't know, ask others, not only professors. 4. Work to the highest of your ability. 5. Have fun, meet new people. 6. Try not to let personal opinions or beliefs get in the way. 7. Do not ridicule others - this is a must.

You will go places in life if you apply yourself and work to the best of your abilities. You must be able to accept constructive criticism and also give it. If I don't like something my boss has done, I let him know about the problem immediately without ranting and raving, and work toward a solution. You can only go so far on education, but EXPERIENCE IS YOUR BEST TEACHER. I have met civil engineers that can build a bridge, but can't change a flat tire. You will meet these people in life and think that at first they are really smart. Yes, but not always versed in other things. One of my brothers owns his own company ( trucking ) and took in over a million dollars in business last year. Not bad for someone who didn't even complete grade 8 - he ran away to another province to beat truancy officers and started working. Nowdays, he can get other people to do the work for him and manage his business. Not that he doesn't work, he regularily puts in 10 or more hours a day. The school of hard knocks can be your best teacher. They say, you can't learn if you don't make mistakes.