FORTE II 2 channel system

[Roshisan1]

I need suggestions on equipment to purchase gradually and on a modest budget with the ultimate goal being a biamp system with tubes on top and SS on the woofer so I have smoothness and bass that punches me in the gut. Sources will be CD and lossless IPOD so your recommendations on a source unit, d/a converter, preamp, tube amp and SS amp will be helpful as well as answers to these questions

1) Should I get the tube amp first or the solid state amp first?

2) Active or Crites passive on the woofer?

3) How many watts are needed to rock the house and achieve deep wall shaking bass?

Thank you.

[djk]

It is not easily bi-amped as the tweeter runs wide open and the midrange needs to be attenuated by a whole bunch (10dB).

If the tube amp has a 16Ω and an 8Ω output you could make it work. This would require building another tweeter crossover, removing the stock crossover, installing an 8-pin Speakon, and buying an electronic crossover, and a LF amplifier.

[wuzzzer]

If you want to experiment with an inexpensive receiver at first, check out the Panasonic SA-XR series. Look for ones that have the Dual Amp feature. When running a 2 channel setup they double the power to the front speakers. 200 watts per speaker. This receiver has given the most punch from my Fortes than any other that I've owned.

They are an all digital receiver. Sounds its absolutely best when you connect a digital connection (optical or coaxial). No need for a DAC and none of the typical solid state harshness.

[Ski Bum]

Active can give you much more control, but offers far more opportunities to make mistakes as well.

A forte w/ Crites crossover fed w/ SS power is a very good baseline, fuss free.

Passive bi-amping is typically a fools errand, but in your case it may be worth exploring. I've tried it, using 50 watts of low impedance friendly ss power on the woofs, and 6 watts of SET enhancement on the horns. Using the passive networks addresses the points djk made, at least to some extent (with high output impedance amps, the mids will run a db or two hotter than the tweet, but I don't find that objectionable).

How many watts are needed to rock the house and achieve deep wall shaking bass?

Not much, but it should be solid into low impedances. I use an old NAD 2100, rated 50w/chan, benches more like 70w/chan, and rather prodigious dynamic headroom (250w at 4 ohm, 330w at 2 ohm, IHF method). My room is ~14x19x9, and it produces very deep, wall shaking bass. Reference levels are not a problem, and I'm guessing by my back of the napkin calculation to be using maybe 15-20 watts, tops.

I don't think I would go fully active again until the finances improve to the point I can afford a DEQX.

[djk]

"Active can give you much more control, but offers far more opportunities to make mistakes as well."

One of them being the elimination of the DCR of the inductor.

The Qts of the Forte woofer is very low. The DCR of the inductor effectively raises the Qes (and thus the Qts) and actually improves the bass.

Ask Dean G about his experience with the RF7 and the 'better' inductors.

[Cal Blacksmith]

I have found that tube amplification into Fort'e speakes, when properly positioned, give you the punch in the gut anyway without fussing with multiple amps. YMMV!

[fwphoto]

- I've run my forte IIs off both SS (Marantz 1152DC) & tubes (stock Dynaco ST-70 & PAS-3). While the Marantz sounded great, the ST-70 brought tears to my eyes! Really! Sometimes people talk about synergy between certain components. I've got to believe the forte II/Dynaco ST-70 combo has to rank right up there. :-)

- Over time I've used 2 different DACs, first a KECES DA-151 USB unit, then a Beringer FCA202 Firewire DAC. I can't say which sounds better but, while the FCA202 is probably the more detailed & accurate unit, the KECES seems more "musical" if you know what I mean.

- I replaced the tweeter diaphrams with Crites titanium & was very happy with the smoother high-end. I've yet to do anything with the XOvers but am leaning to replacing the originals with Crites units. Seems pretty cost effective and they get rave reviews around here.

- I really see no need to bi-amp unless you're a "gearhead" that just has too! ;-)

- The 35W from my ST-70 will "rock the house" & them some!

That's my story,

Frank W.

[oldtimer]

Good posts all. ST-70 is a great unit. Don't try to get too fancy because forte II's are very forgiving ampwise.

[ZombieWoof]

O T but as a SS guy for 30 years what does tubes bring to the table ?? can they push a speaker like a Forte or Cornwall to the tastes of a Die-Hard Hard Rock Fan ??

[Marvel]

an they push a speaker like a Forte or Cornwall to the tastes of a Die-Hard Hard Rock Fan ??

That would depend on the amplifier... You probably woudn't be happy with my 2A3 amps at 3.5 watts each, but a rebuilt ST-70, Dynaco Mark III, NOSValves VRD, and others will rock the house.

Bruce

[wuzzzer]

What's the going rate on a decent condition amp such as an ST-70?

[fwphoto]

What's the going rate on a decent condition amp such as an ST-70?

Not sure about the amp alone, but I paid $500 for a nice, working set of Dynaco separates including the ST-70, PAS-3 & FM-3 a few years ago or so, to someone from this forum. I ended up spending about $700 more for a professional "refurbish" job + new (JJ) & NOS (Mullard) tubes to replace some generic Chinese tubes in the ST-70 & PAS-3. (I don't have the FM-3 in the mix.)

So basically, I think somewhere around $500 should get you a nice running ST-70. Of course there are probably better deals out there if you get lucky, & I've also seen units priced higher. YMMV. I'd be interested in what others have in their ST-70s, though, too.

Frank W.

[Roshisan1]

I appreciate all of your suggestions. As an aside, I discovered last night that I am an analog guy. I previously had a Panasonic SA-XR700 and used the digital inputs. I found the sound clean, but sterile. I wanted to like it but I wound up selling it. I also tried out an Adcom GTP 600/GFA 6000 combo on ADS L630s and L310s. I had to boost the treble and my wife and daughter complained that I was going deaf and that the highs were piercing. Last night I tried out Polk LSI 7s biamped on a Denon AVR 3805/ DVD 2910. The biamp procedure was easy and there was no feedback through the speakers which sometimes occurs. First, I used the digital coax input on the receiver and the sound was clear but sterile. Then, I utilized the analog signal path with both components in pure direct mode and was amazed by the clarity and body of the music. It was just right for me. There were no tone controls to adjust and every part of the music was just present. I don't claim to be an audiophile, so I am not sure of the proper terminology and am not terribly concerned about that. I am just having fun. I can't wait to get my Forte II's out of storage and start playing with them. I am going to try out the Denon first since it isn't going anywhere as part of a decent home theater set-up my wife and I selected together several years ago. I hope it doesn't take a constant change of components to get the right sound for me out of the Klipsch. I'm guessing all of you probably said the same thing and then reality set in. This hobby/addiction is ridiculous.

[Cal Blacksmith]

I think you will find that AVRs are better in HT use than in 2 ch, at least that has been my findings. If it isn't working as a HT unit, well use as a 2ch is [*-)]

But as they say, YMMV!