Marvel Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 or do you mean this? I think this one would work better than the previous one. That one should be better, like the one kg4guy built, even if you don't extend the mouth of the horn past the top of the dog house.Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2sick2pray Posted September 26, 2012 Author Share Posted September 26, 2012 do you mean this... Yes Speakerfritz the first is what I was proposing from the get go, and the last pic looks to me like the 555 bin. Like I said earlier in the thread that I was going for the look , not for the technical side of the design so much, only hoping to be as good as the LS or the 555 bin. I now realize the error of my ways.I have now learned so much just in the last week or so from all of the input in the thread and will need to draw on that . I will now have to the build more precise designs because soon I will have a large lounge/bar venue to DJ for. Dimensions approx. 120' x80' plus a large outdoor patio with seperate speaker system. This will be an adventure with lots of designs to experiment on. Got to have Tapped horn subs for sure. 2S2P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Here is a design which I came across which is interesting. Not an ellagent design but I wonder if it just might be practicle. Size is good in that it is compact compared to the horns we have been discussing. Response looks better than average output is hig along with power handling. I was wondering if any of the greybeards here would have any comments putting aside the cost of eight drivers. I don't normally like the brute force approach but attempting to get 40 - 50 Hz of high efficiency bass out of a compact cabinet is a tough one. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Here is a design which I came across which is interesting. Not an ellagent design but I wonder if it just might be practicle. Size is good in that it is compact compared to the horns we have been discussing. Response looks better than average output is hig along with power handling. I was wondering if any of the greybeards here would have any comments putting aside the cost of eight drivers. I don't normally like the brute force approach but attempting to get 40 - 50 Hz of high efficiency bass out of a compact cabinet is a tough one. Best regards Moray James. why stop at 8 drivers (4+4), might as well go isobaric and use 16 woofers (8+8)........240lbs each plus the weight of the wood. Here's a proven performer. 140db max spl . response of 40hz to 225hz. -10db at 32hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Well that's a good question. I was more concerned if this type of approach was really valid one. It could be scaled to 12 inch or 10 inch woofers. The thing which I do see as attractive is that it about the same bulk or perhaps a little smaller than some of the folded horns I have been looking at and it may have the range that I am interested in. I am looking to see if it could replace an FH-1 cabinet.I have not come across any commercial versions so I figured that I would ask. You know when it seems too goo and all that. So what do you think? Best regards Moray James. PS: The EV cab is killer and as you say proven but has about half the range of the example posted (if that is at all real?). I also like the idea of DJK's PPSL sub but there again you start to get into a more limited bandwidth because of the plenum loading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 I wonder if that ev manifold had 8 drivers (isobaric) if I could touchless wash a car by bass blasting all the dirt off it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 as far as I know they only had four drivers per cab but I am sure that Dennis would know. They used to use fork lift trucks to move them around. Back to the above design. if you scaled back to say four ten inch drivers you would be coupling the same volume of air as a single fifeen inch driver and discount Chinese ten inch drivers are cheap from places like MCM so a project like this would not have to cost a lot for the drivers. I guess that you could use a box response program to model as sealed or vented cabinet volume. I would expect the overall efficiency to be 3 -4 db less than a horn cabinet. I suppose that the design that I am takling about is rally not very much different from the EV design that might be the way to go in the end after all. I guess the thing to do would be to get a couple of tens and build a plenum and measure them. Speakerfritz or Dennis will a pair of tens nested in a plenum then reflex loaded be able to play out to 500 Hz? Best regards Moray James. PS: I guess that you can shrink them not much info though. https://s5-us3.ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/show_picture.pl?l=english&cat=pics&c=pf&q=ev+mtl4&h=137&w=150&th=137&tw=150&fn=mtlkw0ki0.th.jpg&fs=4.6%20k&el=boss_pics_1&tu=http:%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fimages%2Fthumbnail.aspx%3Fq%3D4613126311641600%26id%3D36d5a64116ee4767c7a42cb121fa62d3&rl=NONE&u=http:%2F%2Fforum.speakerplans.com%2Fmtl-4_topic6663.html&udata=063df94a2642fcad2c7537ba789ca91d&rid=LHLNOSQTSKSL&oiu=http:%2F%2Fimg305.imageshack.us%2Fimg305%2F9779%2Fmtlkw0ki0.th.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 as far as I know they only had four drivers per cab Yep, four drivers in the cabinet. I was looking at acquiring some of those a really long time ago (late 80's or early 90's, I forget) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 as far as I know they only had four drivers per cab Yep, four drivers in the cabinet. I was looking at acquiring some of those a really long time ago (late 80's or early 90's, I forget) Not a good design for home. You got the cost of 4 drivers there, just to get to 50 Hz. It's a PA design which requires more power handling than a home application. Stick with the singel driver solutions. Don't build a thing unless you model it in Hornresp FIRST.............trust me on this......it will save you time, sawdust, and disappointment. You cant just build something willy nilly and expect it to work right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 For me, I never bought them simply because of cost as I would have bought new. For the right price, I'd consider them today however, they would be for outdoor use. I don't care for large speakers inside the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 You need a very wide door to get an MTL4 in the house, and a very narrow fork-lift! My PPSL designs will eat them alive, and the size is more user-friendly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Proven performer... -10 db at 32 hz? I would build an Othorn, one 21 inch B&C driver, one 4kw amp, and call it a day. One person can easily move it around with the help of a dolly. It goes just about as loud as the MTL4 with one driver, and does much better on the bottom end. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1350233/the-othorn-tapped-horn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Proven performer... -10 db at 32 hz? I would build an Othorn, one 21 inch B&C driver, one 4kw amp, and call it a day. One person can easily move it around with the help of a dolly. It goes just about as loud as the MTL4 with one driver, and does much better on the bottom end. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1350233/the-othorn-tapped-horn I looked at the link and could not find the max SPL. The EV MTL4 is 140db's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 You need a very wide door to get an MTL4 in the house, and a very narrow fork-lift! Pretty far from a Lascala bass cabinet. PA all the way, obsolete today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Coytee youre kidding? that was a joke right??? It was funny though. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Thank you for jumping in with whatI needed to hear. Can I get say a pair of ten inch drivers in a plenum to squirt out as high as 500 Hz? I am sure I have asked this before but my memory is terrible so will ask again. Do I model a PPSL as it it were simply dual drivers in a reflex or sealed cabinet, taking into account the volume occupied by the plenum? Will that get me close enought to work well? Thanks Dennis. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I guess that I should have mentioned that I wanted to keep to the La Scala / FH-1 style configuration of only one 90 degree bend. Multiple bends are ok for low bass but at 80 Hz a straight horn will sound better than one with a single 90 degree bend. Tough if not impossible toget 40 Hz out of a design like that. I think that you are going to runn out of path length around the 6 ft mark or so. At least I have not seen and longer. Best regards Moray James. I don't think the FH-1 folks got the slot right. the FH-1 only does 58hz (+-3db) to 500hz and is -10 db at 45hz. for the size it's does n't do any better than a lascala bass bin. The LaScala does just as good at 24"X24"X24" vs the 30"X24"X24". And sure...a straight horn is always better.....if you have the room for it. I have owned, measured, and modeled both. The FH-1 is smoother and longer. Neither of them do 58 Hz. very well without EQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 SP-1 with the top cut off is the same as FH-1. Had both. What I call FH-1 in my system are cut off SP-1's. That way you don't get the handles in the sound path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 But don't the handles provide for more grip for the bottom end? Sorry I could not help myself. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2sick2pray Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 But don't the handles provide for more grip for the bottom end? Sorry I could not help myself. Best regards Moray James. Moray / Speakerfritz / Claude: I stumbled onto a Nelson Pass Open Slot Baffle design that might interest you guys. I'm trying to link the the article, no luck. Type in Open Slot Baffle Nelson Pass (google).2S2P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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