plasmadrive Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Has anyone else had Klipsch ceiling speakers fall out of the ceiling? I have had two of them in different locations in the same house over the last 6 months where the plastic molded part (made in China) that holds the screws failed after having been in for the last several years. The latest failure ruined the crossover and some picture frames which where on a cabinet. Luckily no one was hurt. I am very concerned because I have about 15 pairs of these thru out my house and garage. Someone could get seriously hurt as well as possible damage to cars and/or household items. I am the licensed contractor that installed them so I know first hand that they were installed correctly. This was not a vibration issue as they are seldom played and never loud.. One was in the attic and one in the ceiling on the first floor. In both cases the plastic litterally just failed and the speakers fell out of the ceiling. This latest happened Friday night (this is Sat) so I have not talked to Klipsch yet, but I have sent them an email. I would be curious if anyone else has had this issue. Could be one heck of a liability issue for Klipsch and installers. Craig 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted April 25, 2013 Moderators Share Posted April 25, 2013 I have 3 and my sister has 2 and all are fine, they have only been installed for about 3 years, good so far and hope they stay that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasmadrive Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 Mine were in for several years without issue, but now I have had two fall in 6 months. I wrote Klipsch and they responded with questions that I answered but have not heard back in the last two days. They told me this is rare.. but it only takes once on someone's head or on a $60,000 car to be a serious issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted April 26, 2013 Moderators Share Posted April 26, 2013 I do remember seeing somewhere that a wire or some type of strap is installed from the frame of the speaker to a ceiling joist to hold them if they were to come loose. I don't remember if it were Klipsch or another brand, and it may have been in commercial installations I don't remember, but I didn't do it. Good luck, this was the first I heard of this happening, hope it was freak accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awolfe63 Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Just happened to me on a R-5800-C 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasmadrive Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share Posted July 4, 2013 After a few emails with Klipsch they finally replaced my two bad ones. They told me they had not heard of that happening very much. The new replacements have a better system to hold them in. They have 4 dogs that are much heavier.. I also used a piece of string tied to the basket and a rafter as a safety just in case. I used string so I don't get buzzing or vibrations from metal straps or cables. Nylon should hold them just fine should they fall again. I have about 14 pairs of various Klipsch ceiling speakers and they all mount the same. I have inspected most of the others and so far they seem OK.. But you never know what may happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasmadrive Posted November 4, 2016 Author Share Posted November 4, 2016 I know this is an old thread but it has happened again with an R-3800-C. This time fell to a tile floor and busted some tile. The speaker survived it appears but the plastic around it is all busted up. I have entered a new ticket, but damn this is dangerous. When I inspected them all after the last time I came up with the idea of fastening a nylon string to the basket but I figured that out after I had inspected this room. I didn't realize I hadn't gone back and put that string in.. but I will now. This should never ever happen.... The plastic just gets old and brittle and just lets go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 There are more than one attachment to hold the speaker in the ceiling. Is the hole in the ceiling to large? are you getting excess vibrations in the ceiling? Something is going with the way they are secured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasmadrive Posted November 25, 2016 Author Share Posted November 25, 2016 (edited) The hole in the ceiling is the right size and not the issue. The issue is the plastic just gives way. There are only two screw points that hold this up and those both have broken. The picture is of just one side, the other is identical. Same issue with all that have fallen. The screws are hand tightened, no screw gun. They have been up for years, but this is dangerous. We have 4 mounted in a garage and they are over some expensive cars. No excessive vibration. As a matter of fact, the two that fell a few years ago were hardly used at all and never loud. They also were not playing when they fell. This one that fell was in the kitchen and no one was even home... no noise playing. If vibration killed this, then the design is flawed. I am very annoyed at the person at Klipsch that wants me to send the entire speaker back to them, at my expense of course, so he can determine what happened. WTF?. All he needs is the plastic ring but he won't have that. No matter how much I try to reason with him, he still insists on me sending the entire thing back. Any mechanical engineer would tell you the speaker itself plays no part other than the weight and won't help determine anything. I don't want to lose this speaker because it still works fine and there are 3 more in this room. They can't match it because they are no longer made. I just want a new mount and grill to match the old one that got dented. I would just bet sending that speaker will lose it forever and they will not replace all four, so they match. Not very bright for a company that is supposed to be sound savvy. (unless something has change in sound design since I was a contractor) When one falls on a person or a granite counter top, they are going to have a law suit on their hands. Edited November 25, 2016 by plasmadrive 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Well, While I agree that the design of the polymer ring is clearly not sufficient to withstand time (crack growth) and the initial screw forces applied in installation, as well as the weight of the unit in two places, there is a preventative measure that's easy to apply: Put washers with oversized shoulders under the head of the two mounting screws--and perhaps little sticky cork material between the ring and the ceiling to keep from having to torque the screw heads down so tightly. The type of polymer looks like some form of granule-based injection molding compound, and it has cracks built-in if the mold temperatures aren't quite high enough. This all brings up a good point: it would be a good idea if Klipsch would employ reliability engineering services to sign off on each drawing, including one engineer looking at the design of mechanical components and assemblies (i.e., someone thinking about mechanical failure modes, effects, and criticality analysis...FMECA) and one looking at the selection of electrical/electronic parts, their stress ratings for each application, and ways that the parts can fail (again, an FMECA). These analyses can be reused from basic design to design for product lines. Reliability services can be employed so that the costs are kept low -- below one man loading across the entire enterprise. Design reviews should also be employed on every new product going out the door, and that includes reliability review by the most pairs of eyes possible. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 I think that is unacceptable and I would be pissed also. They should take all of yours back and give you new better ones just for your trouble. What if a kid was underneath the thing when it fell. COME ON KLIPSCH do the right thing or should I say VOXX needs to do the right thing. If one fell for sure the others will now its two that fell proof its bad design. But I would make sure the others have wires to support them now. I hope VOXX backs their products.... speaker competition is great and they do not need any upset customers in this economy. Since he bought 14 of these and probably will buy more since he is a contractor. This is a NO BRAINER help this guy out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 I think that it's infinitely better to provide constructive criticism rather than assume a role of "indignant consumer". It's usually much more effective. Most consumers have no idea how the working environment of most engineering organizations actually work, and may be surprised at the productivity and the amount of products touched in one day by each engineer. Only by understanding this can one come to appreciate that it's better to not shoot the people that are trying to provide value to customers--especially when incoming supplier quality isn't always able to catch future reliability issues. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 A nylon zip tie wrapped around the in-ceiling speaker wire and the metal speaker frame makes a very effective safety leash. I would want a safety strap on heavy overhead speakers even if the mounting posts were made of steel and the screws were properly tightened with a torque limited wrench. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 ^excellent idea. Of course as long as wire is short enough to prevent it coming down too far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 Evil vibrations I dont care what kind of new-fangled "Clip" anyone puts out, those little dog ears are clamping down on a drywall or wood surface, Vibration in anything is destructive, and when i have installed these, i shoot into WOOD. I remove the "DogEar" and screw, i use the screw hole as a pilot hole and drill right through the dam face, use 2 1/2 white or black drywall screws through the face to attach the speaker housing the a stud/blocking above. Slammed a lot of overhead speakers in 40+ years, not one has dropped. I know a Pub owner who wishes he would have had me install his, his insurance paid out six figures to someone who had their "Dinner" interupted........ Just my two cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasmadrive Posted November 27, 2016 Author Share Posted November 27, 2016 I like the zip tie idea.. but when this one fell it pulled a large romex staple out of the 2.x 6 that was holding the wire next to it. It wouldn't be able to pull the wire all the way out I don't think.. Going back to my original problem, this is the 3rd speaker that has fallen from an install in 2005. Every time it is the two plastic mounting pieces that just give way. The large ring remains in the ceiling, the screws remain in the ring.. that I not the issue. The issue is the plastic that the screw heads fit into just gives way. None of it is from "excessive" vibration. The first two pretty much never got used and when they did, the volume was way down. This last one gets a lot of use from TV programming but still only has a 30 watt amp connected... Not the point either of course.. The mounting scheme they used back then is not sufficient for the application. They now use a much better system and I assume they are just taking their chances with the rest rather than a recall. My point here is that I have four in one room, replacing one is not a good option for me. If they replace one it should be all four so they match. On top of that, there is no reason in hell for them to require me to send this entire speaker back to them. I first service guy I dealt with a few years ago figured it out and sent me a new pair. This guys is being a PITA. I can just imagine if I send it back it will be lost forever. then what? 3 old and one new but not the same timbre or SPL or Freq response? If one of you is a mechanical engineer, please explain why I would need to send the entire physical speaker for them to figure out that the plastic is broken? Why would not the plastic ring, which is what is broken, suffice? I think they are just being difficult intentionally. So, I now have to go back to all my speakers again, pull them out of the ceiling and inspect the mounts. Then I need to make sure my method of fall restraint is good enough because obviously their mounting system is not. Not what I should have to do. It is time consuming and makes a mess. I have already repaired the tile and have not asked them for any compensation.. I just want the mount and grill replaced.. Perhaps if he pushes this and requires me to send it all back, I will demand compensation for the repairs to the tile and for my time to insure that none of the others will fall. Getting ticked off as you can imagine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Iv a better understanding of the nightmare. I totally agree about (Why) send them back, my thinking is, they wish to see where they went wrong. And when i say "Where they went wrong" > Im saying this: Back in my school days, had a roommate that was going for a chemical engineer, he and some class mates came up with a plastic that was engineered to just "Giveup" its property's by design, after an engineered time frame. This was published many years ago. Many companys adopted the idea, most thinking they were making a better world. Some may have even figured if "it gives up" we will sell another. Glocks are plastic, and they work pretty well, what you are dealing with is substandard, maybe by design? Speakers/Cameras/Surface lighting that i have installed over the years, most were metal, some as you state are indeed plastic. As i stated on how i install, i drill and use my own holes, iv butchered a lot of celing mount goodies in my time. The last thing you want to hear is, "You may wish to look into some higher quality" Sorry i cannot be more helpfull Gave you a few "Likes" to catch you up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kman Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 thats sucks about ceiling speakers falling down. scary really. I just installed six of the CDT-5800's. which are pretty beefy. Above them is an attic space which of course gets cold & hot. I do have attic insulation covering them towards the space. I did end up cracking the plastic around the speaker in one of the them. nothing major but hopefully it won't lead to anything more. Honestly never thought of ceiling speakers falling. Hope Klipsch takes care of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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