forresthump2 Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Barabara Boxer???!! ROTFLMAO That cow disgrace of an American is what I mean by the seeds of the country's destruction. She votes against tax cuts, campaign finance reform and denial of benefits to illegal aliens to name a few. She so far left she in North Korea. LOL Songer you one sorry commie if you that far left. Actual though I like her politicizing of 9-11. Now the truth will be better known how it was Slick Willy who screwed up bigtime. Expect AL Sore to shoot himself in the foot the same. And now AlSore says he's reprogramming himself to appear less programmed. LMAO And HornyEd. Another scheme of his is to go back and groom his views in editing. Man you really after the newbies arent you? You think they'll erect a HornyEd statue of you in Newbieland? LOL If you change your mind and views do have enough class to start a new post. That editing is so Liberalian. LMAO ------------------ Go Forth and Hump the World Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lne937s Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Forrest I want to state that I firmly believe that Bush had no knowledge of 9-11 for one simple reason- while most presidents are trying to do something in the first 100 days, he was on vacation more than any president in recent history. Even if the information was available, he would never have heard it. 9-11 is a matter of neglect rather than negligence. I think that everyone can agree if you get a job as important as president, you should actually do it. One thing people do not realize is that being president, governor or mayor is more about efficient, subtle administration than politics. Look at Rudy and Mike. Clinton was an efficient administrator and a workaholic, even if you disagree with his politics. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump2 Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Agree it was more about neglect. And Slick Willy had 8 Years of it compared to 7 1/2 months for W. Let's see the 1st WTC bombing, the bombing in Saudi, the African Embassies, the Cole all by this "small time" UBL dude. Slick sure knew how to Wag that little finger though when saying "This will not stand", "I did not have sex". "How's that feel Monica". Whoops that was a cigar. LOL The Clown was a career politician. I agree he was a great Politician. But where the hell do you get he was a great administrator. Because of all the Legislating and PCing he did from and to the executuive branch? Look what his Liberal PC agenda did to the security agencies. Freeh was in charge of FBI right up to June 2001. He had all those acadamics over street-wise folks. What the hay? Only efficiency he had was in the poll reading and brainwashing the dumn public. LOL ------------------ Go Forth and Hump the World Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikekid Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Ahhh.... I need to try to be nice.............. This message has been edited by Mikekid on 07-01-2002 at 10:37 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 OK i made it here now! Just to say this is the longest topic ive ever seen, i thought (can we ever own enough Klipsch) was big! My topic a year ago! I think the only way to beat this, is to actually film a porno, with them on top of my chorus! Ill take time to read all 6 pages! Then see whats it about LOL! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump2 Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Jim Cornell: OK i made it here now! I think the only way to beat this, is to actually film a porno, with them on top of my chorus! Ill take time to read all 6 pages! Then see whats it about LOL! Jim I'll do the lead if you have the budget. Actual I did shoot once with my co-star on top of a JBL. Shot it from behind. Didn't want the horns to distract from the scene. ------------------ Go Forth and Hump the World Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted July 1, 2002 Author Share Posted July 1, 2002 Forrest, I can't say your presentation is subtle, but I do agree with what you are saying to a large extent. ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Go Forrest... at least you did a fairly good hack job on one of my least favorite presidents, Bill Clinton. Like most presidents, he rode a prosperity wave that was left over from a previous administration and a more conservative congress. Unlike any president since JFK, he knew how to work the press and the people. Of course, he also left just before the economy his administration influenced was due for a big slump! My least favorite president of all time was JFK (In my Independent opinion, only the Russians had enough sense to avert a stupid war). During his administration, JFK was taking meds that most states would have not allowed him to drive because of potential euphoria. Something that those he sold out in the Bay of Pigs understood all too well. Many of us who had our necks stuck out in sensitive military operations at that time were not JFK fans... and learned to trust LBJ even less! FDR runs a close second only because of the difficult times 1929 brought on... but FDR, not George Washington, was the closest thing to a king this country has ever seen. But then Sam Rayburn as Speaker of the House didn't want to be president... in fact he admitted that he had more power with less scrutiny. As his protégé LBJ should have known, since audit trails point to him as Sam's bagman. Of course, a string of shortcomings can be made of Republican presidents as well... and all of them claimed to be deists of one sort or another... well all except Abe Lincoln. But, their inclinations or personal faith should not overthrow the Constitutional provision for separation of church and state like it did in the Eisenhower Administration. In any event, Forresthump2 it's nice to see you putting a little truth in your character assassinations for a change. -HornEd PS: There, now you have inspired me to post some of my personal bias on politicians... based not on religious or supposed conservative/liberal grounds... just presidents committed to repeating what I see as the errors of their ways, IMHO. I have more on earlier presidents, but these are presidents who I have lived to measure by my own independent yardstick. F-thumpToo , knee-jerk labels and cheapo innuendos may give you self-gratification... but why hide your "light" under a bushel... of smut? This message has been edited by HornEd on 07-02-2002 at 08:50 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted July 2, 2002 Author Share Posted July 2, 2002 I agree, what did JFK do that any other president couldn't have done? I guess a celeberty-like person can be president too. ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump2 Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Horny I like you better now. See how fickle Politics can be. LOL I say Vote for the man not the Party twits! LOL But what most ignorant voters or the biased refuse to see is that the NAS average was down 50% by the time W took office. Then there's business and stock market momentum to consider. Now we have a Stonewalling dasher led Senate. Presidents and fiscal policy just dont effect the economy and markets like the average Joe thinks. Blame Clinton for throwing gas on that fire too by his taking credit for that he had nothing or little to do with. Reagan though had it all. A slickster and a good statesman and administrator. In other words his policies were what the economy needed and he was a leader. Tax cuts get the congress to cut spending but it may take many years. That just the way they work. Listen to Dasher, Gerphart, Kennedy and the Liberals scream. They really want to run up the deficit to where it will hurt the economy then blame it on W's meager tax cuts. Politics Suck! LOL ------------------ Go Forth and Hump the World Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Nixon, Reagan, and Hoover (in that order) were the WORST Presidents of the 20th century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpg Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadhawg Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 This will be my last post on this subject (sigh of relief by all). It appears my tone has been misunderstood and is starting to generate some unpleasantness. Allan, I don't grade Christians or anyone else as good enough or not good enough-didn't mean to imply that I did. Only you or I can determine whether or not we are Christians and whether we are good enough. Speaking for myself, I am not good enough-still a work in progress. Church membership or attendance has nothing to do with it. I'm well aware of the beliefs of both Jefferson and Franklin as well as the other Founding Fathers according to their own words. I did not mean to imply that all of our Founding Fathers were Christian-just that Christian principles were the cornerstone of America's birth. To connect this to the original topic of this thread several gazillion posts ago, I made that point to say that the phrase "under God" accurately reflects the mindset of our framers according to their own words and writings. Larry, the fact that I disagree with you doesn't mean I don't understand what you said. You imply that given identical education we would all have the same beliefs, which are yours. Neither communism nor capitalism in theory are inherently evil. Practically speaking, capitalism works and communism doesn't. Your statement about being "amused" at the views of "Christians" on monogamy and life beginning at conception is both condescending and inaccurate-a bad combination in my opinion. My position on monogamy is based on the Bible which I think you will agree predates any papal ruling. My position on when life begins is based on the Bible, secular science and my own observations of my children's ultrasounds. Neither view was formed or adopted as a result of any decree, teaching or ruling. Regarding capitalism and greed, once again you make condescending and innacurate assumptions based upon my disagreement with you. You know nothing of my educational background nor I of yours. For your information I had three years of Economics in college. I am very familiar with both theories and economic models of both systems. But we're not even in the same zip code as the original topic anymore. If you want to get 100 people to form a little communist enclave, go ahead-noone will stop you. It's a failed system in theory because it cannot work without everyone's participation and to achieve this you have to force people to participate. If you have studied economics, you already know the reasons it's a failed system in practice. It never has been about the rich giving to the poor. It's been about having one group's possessions confiscated and redistributed to another group. I will agree with you that both systems can and have been perverted and corrupted, as can any organization or system. I am familiar with both the vices and the virtues of Jefferson and Franklin, but get real. Bill Clinton doesn't look like a saint no matter who he's standing next to. His best day falls far short of either Jefferson's or Franklin's worst day in my opinion. Who do you expect to be quoting Bill Clinton 200 years from now? Finally, regarding your P.S.-I have no idea where you get the information you draw your conclusions from-the Institute For The Comparitive Study of Murder and Church Attendance? My gut instinct is you might find the per capita murder rate of Jews by Palestinians over the last several years gives us a run for our money. The Germans also had a pretty good turn at bat in the forties. To answer your rhetorical question of why our murder rate is so high-it's because there are those among us who have used their free will to choose to do wrong. I've read and reread this thread to see if I've been ugly or mean spirited. I don't think I have but if I crossed that line inadvertantly, I apologize. I don't think anyone who disagrees with me is stupid or unenlightened. I don't believe good ideas, things or valuable creations come only from Christians. I have no idea whether or not PWK was a Christian, but I sure do love his speakers and was extremely sad at his passing. I enjoy discussions with people who have well thought out viewpoints whether or not they agree with me. I have learned some things in this one. Thanks for allowing me a voice here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Roadhawg, thanks for another well thought out thread. I, too, have a formal economics background and enjoyed your take... even though it may seem far out, there is nothing like a factual base to bring things into focus.... especially when homespun rhetoric gets out of hand.Your last comment about learning from this thread suddenly brought this thread home for me. It matters not how many errors in history or judgment that may have been posted here... what matters is what we have learned from the interchange. Subjects like patriotism, comparative religion, personal political ideology and constitutional law are not subjects we do not often refresh in the normal course of life after education. A little refresher course before the Fourth of July with as much well intended content as has been shown on this thread, pro and con, thither and yon, has put me in a more patriotic mood than I have been in for many an Independence Day. For I am reminded that with a tolerant and cooperative spirit, that the old Pledge and an ethical new generation can preserve and defend this nation... in honor of all those who have made it live this long. Happy Fourth one and all. -HornED PS: I can't seem to find either the Uncle Sam "flompy" or the "In God We Trust" smilie. Ah, yes, it looks like there is still much to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lne937s Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Roadhawg I had intended to comment on type of education but it came off as amount. I apologise- I need to proof read better. I have had many arguments with people who were taught other perspectives that lead to their conclusions. Definitely, this does not only come from multiple degrees. I also apologise for assuming that you were unaware of the references I was talking about ("When you assume you make an..."), other people I had this argument with were. My crime numbers came from a paper I did in my senior year of undergrad that compared official murder rates of industrialized nations. These are official per capita numbers generated by their respective governments. While there are exceptions to the rule, America consistantly has the highest official murder rate per capita. Civil wars and missing people are commonly not included in these numbers. The religious connection stems from an article I read while researching another paper for a PLS class on religion and politics. I did no statistical tests between the two variables, so it is not scientific. Also, it only compared Western European countries, being from the late 80's. The interpretations of the Bible you speak of are relatively contemporary ones. For the majority of it's existance, these were not the official stances of the Judeo-Christian religions. Historically speaking, these interpretations as well as the Protestant Reformation represent a small portion of Judeo-Christian history. The Papal rulings I spoke of were similar to Supreme Court rulings in that they contradicticted previous interpretations and established new interpretations which have spanned the subsequent few hundred years. These have been adopted by even those churches that have broken away from the Roman Catholic church, many of which are unaware of the origin. Jews and Muslims, both of which use the Old Testament, still believe that the soul enters with the first breath. The theocracy of Iran even pays for abortions due to the percieved social benefits. A document as expansive and culturally removed as the Bible has generated numbers of interpretations. If you look at the different views surrounding the relatively simple and straight-forward Constitution, this is very understandable. Being that it is a religious document, people view their interpretations as absolute and without question. I am a Catholic. Although I frequently disagree with the Pope, I believe in Christianity. However, I've been heavily exposed to other religions and sociopolitical history; which leads me to support the separation of church and state. The support of different ideas is what it's all about. I am also NOT a Communist or support it. I believe in using whatever works, and that happens to be a modified form of capitalism. I just think that people overestimate the positive power of Christianity in this country, that "If it's good it has to be Christian" mentality. Like the winning Superbowl team. I have enjoyed the opinions of thos who disagree with me. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump2 Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Larry say hi to curly for me you liberal hack. And while your at it please provide the independant and dependent variables with your weightings and throw in the the correlation coefficients and R-squared while you at it if you did do the right multiple regression analysis. And Slick Willy, Carter and JFK were the worst presidents in that order. Though i did like that JFK didnt like to wear a hat. I dont like to wear a cap either. AlSongbird has to be the biggest idiot commie in America. Im sure Slick Willy is his favorite. LOL That bastards deeds will be hurting us for years to come. But I do like he started an oral sex epidemic with teenagers in the USA. Nothing wrong with those girls acquiring that talent young. This will explain Democrats ideas of tax cuts for you: 50,000 people go to a baseball game, but the game was rained out. A refund was then due. The team was about to send out refunds when the Democrats stopped them, and suggested that they send out refund amounts based on the Democrats' interpretation of fairness. After all, if the refunds were made based on the price each person paid for the tickets, most of the money would go to the richest people. That would be unconscionable. The Democrats' plan says: People in the $10 seats will get back $15, because they have less money to spend. People in the $15 seats will get back $15, because that's only fair. People in the $25 seats will get back $1, because they already make a lot of money and don't need a refund. People in the $50 luxury seats will have to pay another $50, because they have way too much to spend. The people driving by the stadium who couldn't afford to watch the game will get $10 each, even though they didn't pay anything in, because they need the most help. tee-hee-hee ------------------ Go Forth and Hump the World This message has been edited by forresthump2 on 07-02-2002 at 10:46 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted July 3, 2002 Share Posted July 3, 2002 OK kids, the nuts and bolts according to old JD (who knows because, well, he just does): amoral liberals - BAD immoral conservatives - ALMOST AS BAD narrow minds - BAD shapely behinds - GOOD high sensitivity speakers - GOOD high sensitivity males - BAD head religion - VERY BAD heart religion - VERY, VERY GOOD! Monica - BAD Slick Willy - GLAD! Amar Bose - direct/reflecting Paul Klipsch - bullshit detecting Arguing religion - a waste of time Listening to Alison Krauss sing "Down To The River To Pray" - SUBLIME! ...and to all a good night. ------------------ JDM This message has been edited by James D McCall on 07-03-2002 at 01:07 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted July 3, 2002 Share Posted July 3, 2002 I am quite surprised to find myself replying again to this thread but here goes: Roadhawk: "My position on monogamy is based on the Bible which I think you will agree predates any papal ruling." Think it depends on where you look in the bible. I seem to remember Rachael and Leah sharing a husband.. "My position on when life begins is based on the Bible, secular science and my own observations of my children's ultrasounds." Cant say I remember any statement in the bible on when life actually begins - where is this? "Neither view was formed or adopted as a result of any decree, teaching or ruling. " Fair enough. If ever there was an issue which is dependent on your morality or consience then the start of life/abortion issue is it. "If you want to get 100 people to form a little communist enclave, go ahead-noone will stop you. It's a failed system in theory because it cannot work without everyone's participation and to achieve this you have to force people to participate." Ever visited a Kibbutz? I think you will find that if those 100 people are volunteers and understand what they are getting themselves into you wont need force - education yes, force no. On the macro scale I would agree that communism has proven unworkable. "I am familiar with both the vices and the virtues of Jefferson and Franklin, but get real. Bill Clinton doesn't look like a saint no matter who he's standing next to." I am not sure there are any ex-presidents that are in line for sainthood - it does not seem to be a requirement for the job. "Finally, regarding your P.S.-I have no idea where you get the information you draw your conclusions from-the Institute For The Comparitive Study of Murder and Church Attendance? My gut instinct is you might find the per capita murder rate of Jews by Palestinians over the last several years gives us a run for our money. The Germans also had a pretty good turn at bat in the forties." Interesting that both your examples refer to countries at, or in, a state of war or virtual war. In comparison with all other first world countries I think you will find that America has both the highest church attendance and the highest murder rate. I do not, however, see the correlation which may in fact be your point. America also has the highest proportion of people that regularly wear a Stetson hat. "To answer your rhetorical question of why our murder rate is so high-it's because there are those among us who have used their free will to choose to do wrong." As a non-american I think I would point to the proponderance of weapons, in combination with the gulf between rich and poor in your society. You may like to take a look at the UK where they have simultaneously clamped down hard on guns whilst the economy is booming and the unemployment rate is falling. The rate of crime, expecially crimes of violence has fallen off dramatically. This has proved to be far more effective than any increasing of police numbers and changes to the punishments doled out. Of course higher Church attendance may have an impact on crime in as much as if I am going to break into someone's home Sunday morning may seem to be a good time to do it (a little levity). ------------------ My System: http://aca.gr/pop_maxg.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted July 3, 2002 Share Posted July 3, 2002 Once again, maxg a thoughtful, flameless, contrast of perception... the kind of quality that makes thinking a meaningful endeavor. Your kibbutz comment reminded me of a young Israeli born and raised in a kibbutz who became a communist and worked for an Israeli lawyer whose clients were dissident Palestinians. He came to NYC to visit his statuesque redheaded German girlfriend who was working in a sweat shop (no green card) and studying to be a better communist at the Karl Marx School in Manhattan. They lived in an adjacent apartment, and since I like to get opposing views, we had many long conversations. The upshot was, my encouragement led to the young German lady getting a Green Card and commission based employment that included travel around much of the U.S. She dropped out of the Marx School, sent her boyfriend back to the Gaza Strip, and lived happily ever after as a tolerant capitalist who came to the conclusion that, indeed, communism doesn't work on a macro scale. The boy was blown up while visiting the home of one of his employer's clients who was alleged to be involved in a bomb factory. Yes, sometimes dialogue works... and sometimes it takes C4 Explosive to make a change... and, then again, maybe something can be done by the Christian Rock Band by that name. Picking the best from alternative viewpoints tends to make a person... a nation... or a Klipsch system the better for it. -HornED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lne937s Posted July 3, 2002 Share Posted July 3, 2002 Forrest- I just stated the murder/ church attendance as an observation, not as a direct correlation. Also, I never implied causation. To do so would be like claiming the removing church in school has led to classroom shootings and computer usage. No post hoc falacies here. However, it does seem to contradict some claims of the moral righteous foundation of this society. Morality is much more revelant to violent crime than economic success- Jesus as an individual was not very financially successful. Also in my previous post, I clearly state that it is not scientific- "I did no statistical tests between the two variables, so it is not scientific." I do not consider myself a liberal, although some of my views lean in that direction. I believe that the role of government should be to protecty us from others, not from ourselves. I also think the government should incourage behavior that benefits society. From a true conservative (not Conservative) perspective, the government should keep its nose out of reproductive rights, religion, and substance use. However, what we lable as "Conservative" has supported these causes. Also, compared to my standard of living, I pay a greater percent of my income in taxes than almost all of you- it is very expensive to live here and the tax brackets do not change. I live in one small room, commute 40min. each way, and am in an upper-middle class tax bracket. I would actually be upper middle class in Arkansas. However, I would rather give poor people tax breaks than have them soaking up welfare money or on the street begging. We do not need to maintain an empoverished population to the extent that we used to because we can go outside our borders to get cheap labor- economic empirialism. That is one reason why we had below "minimum unemployment" during the 90's and still maintained stable economic growth. As a result, welfare needs to be reformed. However, we need to improve education or the better educated/ poorly paid workers we use in some contries will take over our position. Also, farm subsidies need to be adjusted in the age of corporate farming. The family farms the subsidies were intended to support are no longer the norm. Controlling inflated costs on defense contracts is essential to providing a strong defense. Look at Harry S Truman's work while he was a US Senator. We need to have some taxation to keep our country and economy going, and Deficit spending is not an answer. A lot of programs need to get back to basics. Social Security used to be a program to keep old poor people from starving to death, before it was spread to everyone. However, seniors have amazing pull in this country- so this is a sacred cow. When the baby boom retires, we are going to be in a world of hurt, especially if people start living longer. Also, all the red tape intended to keep check on corruption is leading to inefficiency so great that it outcosts the corruption. Why pay an efficiency expert $50K per year and hundreds of man hours filling out forms to remove $20k of waste? The Pendergast machine was extremely corrupt, but it got things done- not that we should allow that kind of system to happen. Unless Bush intends to make budgets with Reagan-like deficits, we need to make cuts, even where it hurts. It all breaks down to money- who has it and who gets it (usually ends up being the same person). The people who really get hurt are us in the middle. If you look at corporate taxes and tarrifs as a portion of government revenue 50 years ago compared to today in real terms (adjusted for inflation)- you may have a new opinions on taxes. I see good and bad points in all the presidents we've had. Carter may not have been the best president, but he certainly was one of the most moral, was intelligent (if not in areas pertaining to political maneuvering), and has done more after his presidency to make the world a better place than many presidents do while in office. Reagan also had many virtues and was not as one-sided as many would make him out to be- he was a union leader, a tobacco spokesman, and his favorite president was FDR. I think one of the negative aspects of religion is that it tends to make people think in good and bad, black and white - people are many shades of grey. I try not to judge, many of my comments here were more to show alternate perspectives (like the communist point- I am not a communist) rather than to push an agenda. I want to make people think so that they do not follow blindly, not to make them mad. Any way- best wishes to all Larry This message has been edited by lne937s on 07-03-2002 at 02:49 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts