Plexi-glass K-Horn pics on the site

[ricktate]

Just wanted to let people know about the pictures......[WTF] Yes I did know it has been around for years in fact I saw it in person 28 years before you were a member here.Recording studios are small so they must conform and use little boy speakers. Atleast they did not use blose in them....lol. Rick

[WTF]

Well, now, what happened to the "acoustic transformer" concept, where the horn changes the wave characteristic from high pressure and low displacement at the throat, to low pressure and greater displacement at the mouth. I thought that was supposed to work into lower distortion and a very large-scale window of propagation into the room.

Nothing happened to the acoustic transformer concept, I didn't mention it, you did. BTW, high pressure, (repeat) high pressure at the throat. Sort of what I said no?

I thought that was supposed to work into lower distortion and a very large-scale window of propagation into the room.

You thought wrong, sorry.

[WTF]

Perhaps I should have said "speaker engineers"

Actually, that would have made you tumble a bit worse....a "speaker engineer" is the guy I tell to design a bass horn or 2-way NF monitor or subwoofer.

Recording studios are a specialized application, so what works well there is not the same as what works well in most homes.

They are "special" but not specialized, they have to be flat in the near-field. Not a bad attribute for any reproducer in my book especially one for critical listening in the home.

Also, we all know that bass horns have to be very large, so they're not commonly used. That said, there are several forum members who have horn subs and are very happy with them.

Have you ever installed TWO pair (in flipped configuration) of these in a mastering studio? Small you say?

[WTF]

Another setup using small speakers in a small room.

Also, these are ATC systems. A pair of these are on the order of $70K or so. No expense spared.

You think this would suck in a typical living room?

You wish...

[WTF]

Recording studios are small so they must conform and use little boy speakers.

"Little boy" speakers?...Small rooms?....Do you guys ever get tired of listening to your own bullsh*t?

[WTF]

The situation is different in the sound reinforcement world where horns are widely used, especially for mid range and high frequencies.

Complete agreement.

[Marvel]

Those TADs are really talkin' to me, especially upside down...

But seriously, what point are you trying to make here? I've been in enough studios to know they don't have systems with bass horns, even the big ones with enough room for them. DR systems are way better than they used to be. Most horn systems are better too. DRs aren't as efficient, but amplifier power is cheap these days, and has been for some time. I think most folks on here would say they think that the good horn systems they've heard have an effortless presentation. But really, good systems (and they don't necessarily have to be expensive) sound good.

So the real thing has to do with purpose.

Have a nice weekend.

[WTF]

But seriously, what point are you trying to make here?

When accurate LF reproduction is the primary, it's direct radiators for the bass. If folded horns were superior, it would be folded horns in all those control rooms staring the mixing engineer in the face, not cones.

[WTF]

But really, good systems (and they don't necessarily have to be expensive) sound good.

There's an old saying about transformers....not all heavy transformers are good ones but all good ones are heavy.

Same goes for loudspeakers....not all expensive loudspeakers are good ones but....you get the rest.

[LarryC]

You thought wrong, sorry.

I don't think so, at least where the unmistakably large-sized sonic radiating surfaces of the K-horn and La Scala are concerned.

I believe Heyser's classic article on the K-horn cited very low distortion figures; are comparative distortion figures available?

[WTF]

You thought wrong, sorry.

I don't think so, at least where the unmistakably large-sized sonic radiating surfaces of the K-horn and La Scala are concerned.

I believe Heyser's classic article on the K-horn cited very low distortion figures; are comparative distortion figures available?

Heysers "classic" article is unfortunate,......he hand drew the bass horn response shown in the frequency magnitude plot.

Heyser was a smart guy, no question, but he was also PWKs buddy and was unlikely to provide an unbiased analysis.

He was unable to make accurate measurement of the bass horn in the confines of his living room thus the hand sketch representing the LF section of the response.

[WTF]

I don't think so, at least where the unmistakably large-sized sonic radiating surfaces of the K-horn and La Scala are concerned.

What does a large-sized sonic radiating surface have to do with low distortion? If I'm making noise I just "radiate" more of it, don't I? Size does matter for a number of parameters but not applied indiscriminately(?).

[LarryC]

I don't think so, at least where the unmistakably large-sized sonic radiating surfaces of the K-horn and La Scala are concerned.

What does a large-sized sonic radiating surface have to do with low distortion?

I didn't say it did, or at least I didn't intend to. I was referring or trying to refer to horns having a large radiating surface. This is clearly audible, IMO. However, I've occasionally heard the same effect from a DR system, and I can't account for that.

Distortion apparently ain't everything.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

In every photo of a studio, the console was relatively close to the speakers, too close for a full horn system to integrate properly.

You pointed out the B&W's at Abbey, I had a pair of the 801s and 800's, they are very similar to the new Klipsch Palladiums (I know, bass is not a horn.) I prefer the Palladiums because they need less power to drive.

[philly0116]

Wow.

[Don Richard]

Heysers "classic" article is unfortunate,......he hand drew the bass horn response shown in the frequency magnitude plot.

Heyser was a smart guy, no question, but he was also PWKs buddy and was unlikely to provide an unbiased analysis.

He was unable to make accurate measurement of the bass horn in the confines of his living room thus the hand sketch representing the LF section of the response.

Heyser did what he did not because he was PWK's friend but because of the limitations of his Time Delay Spectrometry method. It is not accurate at low frequencies because of data sampling limitations. Because of that Heyser measured bass frequencies conventionally and blended the resultant curves into the curve you posted. BTW, Stereophile uses much the same method, measuring the different drivers in a loudspeaker and blending the curves.

Although TDS was a revolutionary measurement method, it cannot completely replace anechoic (or outdoor) measurements.

[Don Richard]

What does a large-sized sonic radiating surface have to do with low distortion? If I'm making noise I just "radiate" more of it, don't I? Size does matter for a number of parameters but not applied indiscriminately(?).

A larger radiating element does not have to move as far to displace the same volume of air as a smaller one. Frequency modulation distortion is reduced as a result. That's part of the design of horn loaded woofers, not an indiscriminate application.

[philly0116]

What does a large-sized sonic radiating surface have to do with low distortion? If I'm making noise I just "radiate" more of it, don't I? Size does matter for a number of parameters but not applied indiscriminately(?).

A larger radiating element does not have to move as far to displace the same volume of air as a smaller one. Frequency modulation distortion is reduced as a result. That's part of the design of horn loaded woofers, not an indiscriminate application.

Honk.

[Islander]

Honk.

Are you a goose?