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DizRotus

The BEST way to clean & preserve vinyl

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@cincymat

 

I put 1/2 tsp of Cyastat in a single batch and a full tsp in a double batch, as per the recipe.  The % solution reference is in regards to the separate treatment method, which I don't use.

 

 

CCI12112017.jpg

RECIPE.pdf

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Thanks Diz! 

 

I saw it in the recipe and wanted to make sure. If time allows I'm mixing up my first batch on Saturday. 

 

Mark

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27 minutes ago, DizRotus said:

Rich, @rplace, that’s disappointing and atypical.  Is the stylus picking up bits of film on the first playing?  Sometimes the peel and the anti-static remove the surface dirt and break the static bond allowing the stylus to collect anything left in the grooves.  

 

I keep a melamine foam eraser sponge (think Mr. Clean Magic Eraser) handy to gently tap the stylus onto to clean the stylus. Sometimes it takes a few playings to physically clean the grooves.

 

Are you certain the goop is being worked deep into the grooves with a foam brush?  It can’t just sit on the surface.  It must be pushed deep into the grooves.  The removed peel should look like a clear reverse record with grooves clearly evident.

 

I have an Onzow stylus cleaner and have been looking very closely at the stylus for bits of crud. I'm not seeing any accumulation. I'm also playing the passages I'm concerned about multiple times. I'm an engineer by school/profession so I feel I'm pretty scientific in my approach.

 

Reasonably sure the goo is going into the grooves. When I peel it off the top side, not in contact with the LP is smooth. The part touching the LP is bumpy and "groovy". You can clearly see tight grooves of the song and wider blank spots between tracks. It looks like a floppy, clear version of the LP. Most surely a negative image of the LP itself. That said I have thought the overall concoction is rather thick to get into such tight spaces. I'd say it is a bit thicker than honey. It for sure has high and low spots from brushing but by the time it is dried and peeled it is uniform in thickness throughout. So that tells me it is self leveling and gravity should be getting it into the grooves. Since I can feel grooves/ridges on the LP side of the peel I think it is getting into the grooves. I'm thinking I might add a tad more alcohol and water to my next batch to see if I can thin it out slightly.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not unhappy with the results. I am a very critical listener. Almost to the point I can't enjoy the music at times. At times I'm too buys analyzing and trying to get the perfect playback. Also, I have a very low output moving coil (MC) cartridge, a pretty darn good phono stage. Not to mention highly sensitive/efficient speakers (like we all do here if you own klipsch). Also my room is highly treated and very quiet. All the LPs I'm trying to fix with this are quality LPs. All VG+ to NM- if I were to grade...which I personally think is a waste of time. Everyone over-grades their LPs especially if trying to sell them. To me they either sound good or do not. If I were walking around the house or casually listening after this process I'd be happy. Also, as I had mentioned before, I think this works every bit as good as my VPI vacuum. If you were a person without a vacuum and you were willing to take on this process; I would not see any reason to even consider buying a vacuum.

 

I was ultimately hoping this would fix those records that look great but don't turn out to play great. I'm not giving up yet. I'm just not having a B-Jesus moment or dramatic improvements. I think the antistatic is well worth the price of admission alone. Especially if it sticks around for years to come. Bonus that it makes the LPs look like new. Very shiny and clean.

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Mark, @cincymat, and Rich, @rplace, do as I say, not as I do.

 

I just confirmed the 1 liter level on my container and marked it.  Note that it is higher than the “final” level of the batch made last night.  I strongly suggest pre-marking the 500ml and 1000ml (1 liter) levels before mixing the slurry.  The amount of distilled water needed to add to a batch to get to the final level may vary.  Rather than trying to measure, or guess, the water to be added, it’s easier to fill to the designated final level.  Does this make sense?

 

By failing to follow my own directions, I’ve been wasting ingredients.

 

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5971B383-C519-4767-83B8-0834124A366A.jpeg

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Rich, @rplace, let’s hope the slurry was too thick to get fully into the grooves.  When done correctly the viscosity is thinner than honey.

 

I hesitate to mention, but when Dave, @Mallette, used the stuff to have his “B’ Jesus” experience, he’d let the goop I sent him sit around for most of a year before trying it.  As I recall, he described it as gelatinous by then, rather than liquid.  As a consequence, he may have been extra diligent working it into the grooves.

 

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Sounds like you are doing what I already did. Going from memory don't have the recipe in front of me....

 

I marked my container with the final desired 500ml. Next I measured out the 400ml of water and XXX grams of Elvanol. Heated/stirred/mixed for about an hour. Added all the post-heat items except the water. Topped off with water to my premarked 500ml line. Net result 500ml of goo.

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2 minutes ago, DizRotus said:

Rich, @rplace, let’s hope the slurry was too thick to get fully into the grooves.  When done correctly the viscosity is thinner than honey.

 

I hesitate to mention, but when Dave, @Mallette, used the stuff to have his “B’ Jesus” experience, he’d let the goop I sent him sit around for most of a year before trying it.  As I recall, he described it as gelatinous by then, rather than liquid.  As a consequence, he may have been extra diligent working it into the grooves.

 

 

I was thinking I might take a LP I don't really care about and use a bristle paint brush, not foam brush and try and force it into the grooves. However, I think given that I can feel ridges with my thumb nail on the peel that it is already getting in.

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22 hours ago, rplace said:

 

I was thinking I might take a LP I don't really care about and use a bristle paint brush, not foam brush and try and force it into the grooves. However, I think given that I can feel ridges with my thumb nail on the peel that it is already getting in.

 

Sounds like you're doing everything correctly.  Is it possible that too much Cyastat is the problem?  In the articles (2nd IIRC) there is mention of excess Cyastat causing noise that was only corrected by another PVA peel, presumably without Cyastat added.

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1 hour ago, DizRotus said:

 

...Is it possible that too much Cyastat is the problem? ...

 

I bought a syringe for measuring. Again, I'm pretty good at following directions. The way I read that Cyastat thing was that if you put too much on with the Cyastat only method for antistatic you could not get rid of it unless you used the goo facial to peel it off. Since I was only interested in the goo method and measured pretty accurately I don't think that is the issue. For the record I've not tried Cyastat by itself. I don't see the point.

 

I've been performing my tests on well know passages that are quiet and only say 5-20 seconds long. I know where the noise I want to go away was originally. For sure no noise is being added. My treatments are either helping, every so slightly, or doing nothing. It is for sure helping on pops and click that just seem to happen - i.e. static in my mind. And to be fair the LPs are already pretty decent. I'm trying to get 20+ year old LPs that were designed for the masses at $3 from the local record store to sound like 200g Classic Record pressings of Led Zeppelin. Black backgrounds and dead quiet. It is probably just too much to ask. There have always been good and bad pressings of LPs. I think at the level of our of our collective equipment is, especially on Khorns there is no room for error.

 

Quick analogy of what I think I am running into. Long time forum member GaryMD had a Scott/Thorens/Cornwall system that every LP you played on it just sounded really, really nice. Always put a simile on your face. Simply good all the way around. He also had a BBX/VRD/Basis/Khorn system where the cartridge alone probably cost as much as the entire Cornwall system. This was a true life changing experience to listen to.....when it had the right records on it. Other times it was just not all that enjoyable to listen to. Never terrible mind you, just not the "OMG, wow can you believe that" it could be at times. When it was right it was unbeatable. With my room treatments and equipment somewhere in between those two systems and my annoying knack for just a hint of surface noise detracting, I'm not sure some of these LPs will ever be to my liking.

 

I probably need to bite the bullet and pop for a sealed original version of one of these LPs and see if it was ever possible these were quiet from day 1. The cost of a sealed original anything these days is silly. I like seeking out old records and enjoy the hunt. If I wait long enough just about everything will be rereleased on 180g wax from the original tapes. I have a mental problem spending 25-35 dollars on a LP I once owned, got rid of, bought on CD, ripped to FLAC but now want to listen to on LP again. I only have myself to blame for selling my LPs. I can still see myself in the shop very clearly. I got less than $200 for everything. I'd gladly pay $2K to have it all back. I should probably just get over my pretentious self, chuck the turntable and go all digital. I'd most likely save money, time and frustration while spending more time actually listening to music.

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On 12/12/2017 at 10:24 AM, rplace said:

For the record I've not tried Cyastat by itself. I don't see the point.

 

I agree Rich.  IMO, it’s a waste of Cyastat, time and money to use it without the PVA peel.

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@DizRotus

Just found this thread and super interested.  I couldn't access that pdf.  Is that something easily found on the web? or was it a scanned document?

If you still have a copy, I'ld love to read up.

 

mucho mahalo,

 

Olomana

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On 2/3/2018 at 1:14 AM, mustang guy said:

I made offline copies in case Klipsch moves to another forum software again in the future. 

TAA_articles.pdf and RECIPE.pdf

 

We missed you @mustang guy.  Did you have any luck sourcing Cyastat SN, or a suitable substitute?  You must have a lot of time  on your hands there at the prison.;)

 

There is not much Cyastat SN left.  It’s the key ingredient, but the ONLY one that’s not readily available.  Please pardon me for being stingy and trying to filter out the mildly curious from those who will actually take the time to read the whole articles, compile the other ingredients, and cook a few batches of Reg Williamson’s PVA peel.

 

I take my custodianship of this cache of Cyastat SN very seriously. Since I won’t sell it to the highest bidder — several have asked — one filter is a requirement for proof of a charitable donation of at least $25.  As the irreplaceable supply dwindles, I probably will soon have to raise the bar on the donation.  

 

Not counting my time, it costs me ~$5 in supplies and postage to send an ounce to serious vinyl enthusiasts.  I’m pleased to do it, but only after I’m convinced they’ve read both articles and are as serious as a heart attack.  Perhaps I should prepare a quiz to weed out those who haven’t thoroughly read the articles.

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On 2/1/2018 at 10:53 AM, Olomana said:

mucho mahalo,

 

I like your blending of Hawaii and New Mexico.  If you next move to Minnesota your phrase will become , “mucho mahalo dontcha know” :)

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On 2/3/2018 at 2:54 AM, DizRotus said:

 

We missed you @mustang guy.  Did you have any luck sourcing Cyastat SN, or a suitable substitute?  You must have a lot of time  on your hands there at the prison.;)

 

There is not much Cyastat SN left.  It’s the key ingredient, but the ONLY one that’s not readily available.  Please pardon me for being stingy and trying to filter out the mildly curious from those who will actually take the time to read the whole articles, compile the other ingredients, and cook a few batches of Reg Williamson’s PVA peel.

 

I take my custodianship of this cache of Cyastat SN very seriously. Since I won’t sell it to the highest bidder — several have asked — one filter is a requirement for proof of a charitable donation of at least $25.  As the irreplaceable supply dwindles, I probably will soon have to raise the bar on the donation.  

 

Not counting my time, it costs me ~$5 in supplies and postage to send an ounce to serious vinyl enthusiasts.  I’m pleased to do it, but only after I’m convinced they’ve read both articles and are as serious as a heart attack.  Perhaps I should prepare a quiz to weed out those who haven’t thoroughly read the articles.

One of my son's best friends works at Solvay in Marietta. Let me see if he has a lead on any. I had pretty much forgotten about this whole project till the other day when somebody mentioned buying a cleaning machine.

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6 hours ago, mustang guy said:

One of my son's best friends works at Solvay in Marietta. Let me see if he has a lead on any. I had pretty much forgotten about this whole project till the other day when somebody mentioned buying a cleaning machine.

 

Did you ever try it?  Did I send you any?

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got my bottle. still awaiting for the other products from Ama&on.

we'll see if everything works out for this weekend, cuz next weekend is a busy one

 

Mucho Mahalos,

 

olomana

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I did enough batches to do every one of my records. I cleaned them first then did the peel. Definitely quieter between passages and I get almost no dust on the stylus after plays. It’s very dry here and usually a lot of static electricity but the peeled disks don’t hold onto dust anymore.

 

I did notice that my viscosities weren’t always exactly the same and I followed the instructions VERY closely not deviating (or so I thought). I must have but I tell you, the results are noticeable.

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Of course Cyastat (I forget which number) can be added to vinyl in the production process to permanently impart anti-static properties to LP's. A shame that no one does this. 

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