ClaudeJ1 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 John Warren was a big fan of these horns, as was Q-man, but searching for their technical threads seems nearly impossible. So apparently not everyone bucks up the the bifurcated horn bar, like Klipsch does on all their bass horns, for good reason. This horn, as well as my Q-Pie horn are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mungkiman Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 John Warren was a big fan of these horns, as was Q-man, but searching for their technical threads seems nearly impossible. So apparently not everyone bucks up the the bifurcated horn bar, like Klipsch does on all their bass horns, for good reason. This horn, as well as my Q-Pie horn are not. Bruce Edgar comes to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Bruce Edgar comes to mind. Yes, Bruce Edgar has been a strong proponent of the University Classic configuration, particularly for its 90 degree bends. http://volvotreter.de/downloads/Edgar-Show-Horn.pdf (No relation to Dr. Edgar) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) Looking at this thread again today I can see that some of you over-estimate my skills. I do not have calibrated measuring equipment, nor the experience to use them. All I have is my Phonic PAA-2 analyzer which helps me out from time to time when I don't trust my ears. So I'm a very simple guy who tunes his system by ear. That is why I did not change the Universal Classic enclosure in design and only cut-off the empty spaces that made it look bulky and like a ugly box. Before making any change at all, like putting the EV HR-90 horns in the La Scala's, I listen to it first for a few weeks together with my wife [ for more than 30 years already she sings in a choir and got a very fine-tuned hearing]. After a few weeks we swap things back the way they were, and check the difference. This way we were always able to determine wether the "new thing" was a improvement or not. Compared to the K-horns [we have heard K-horns many times] ,these horns go slightly less deep but have a much better "open sounding " bass and midbass" area. They can also easily be crossed over at 900Hz and this way provide a good basis for a 2-way system. Compared to the La Scala, these horns dig deeper, provide a much richer sound, again sound much less restricted and do not suffer from the colourations of the LS 's sidewalls. Having the mid/high horn inside the bassmouth makes the sound coming from one point which has broadened and deepened the soundstage, singer's voice coming from mid-air between the cabinets. These are our experiences without professional measurements, you may laugh about it if you want. All I wanted to share here with this thread was my enthousiasm for this project and maybe encourage others to refurbish old enclosures from the past so they can be enjoyed again today. Nico Edited February 26, 2014 by nico boom 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) Having the mid/high horn inside the bassmouth makes the sound coming from one point which has broadened and deepened the soundstage, singer's voice coming from mid-air between the cabinets. These are our experiences without professional measurements, you may laugh about it if you want. All I wanted to share here with this thread was my enthousiasm for this project and maybe encourage others to refurbish old enclosures from the past so they can be enjoyed again today. Nico No laughter at all. Even though I have instruments, listening to some very select recordings tell me whether I have made improvements or not. While curves get sonic journey moving in the right direction, extensive listening to VERY familiar, repeated program material is the final determinant of arrival for me also. My initial request for measurements have been served adequately by your more detailed response about how you listen with 4 ears and 2 brains, so thank you for that. You have done the most important parts. Edited February 26, 2014 by ClaudeJ1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted May 8, 2014 Author Share Posted May 8, 2014 Well, after fiddling with the Mini-DSP a number of times and fine-tuning the settings, I felt no craving anymore to change anything. Every time we listen to music we enjoy the lively and complete sound with which these big boys draw us into the music. We slowly turn from technical listening to simply enjoying it ! A few weeks ago I made the speaker-grilles for the upper section and plans are to make a set for the lower section as well to give them a less "brutal" appearance. We had a visit of a man who ownes a very expensive system ; he couldn't believe that such a simple and relatively cheap system could sound so good. [he didn't believe in horns either... now he does.] What's left is to find a new owner for my stock La Scala's here in The Netherlands or better; a place to store them.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Well done Nico enjoy this special place where you are now with your speakers. Enjoy your time listening with these. Nothing like a big two way. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted May 8, 2014 Author Share Posted May 8, 2014 Thanks Moray, It's been a long time since I could listen to a system without having the urge to "change something".... We were used listening to three-way systems for years and never thought a two-way system could sound so good or even better. Only after using the time-alignment function of the MiniDSP everything seemed to "" sound right" . Having the woofer away from the mid/high horn for just over one metre it really makes a big difference to make use of this function. With the crossover set at 1100Hz [yep, that high] at 18Db/oct , the two drivers work perfectly together. This woofer/ horn design makes it possible to reach high enough for the Beyma mid/high driver to take over effordlessly, with the EV horn having a Fs of 400Hz. Lowpass is boosted gradually from 100Hz to 20Hz to compensate the basshorn's rapid rolloff, just as the highpass is raised to 20K to compensate the rolloff of the Beyma driver. Looking back , one thing is clear though; when looking for better sounding speakers... size matters. Nico 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Looking back , one thing is clear though; when looking for better sounding speakers... size matters. Nico I think everyone who has gone big will agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 (edited) Nico Boom- Very nice indeed. Your ears and eyes do not deceive you. They look fantastic to me and look and sound fantastic to you and your wife, which is all that matters. I especially like the EV aspects (even though now removed). EV at 600 Cecil St., Buchanan, MI, USA was a big part of the early days of audio, including Klipsch. "Measurements? We don't need no stinkin' measurements." Your ears are very sophisticated measuring devices. Edited May 11, 2014 by DizRotus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicook Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Nico Boom. You are a bad influence. I am a newer member, so I never saw this original post. The recent comments and photos of these gorgeous speakers resulted in another acquisition. However, these speakers are not identical. Note the differences in bracing. The speakers are not identical either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 very nice work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 Musicook; congrats on your purchase, looks like you got some work to do but will end up with a pair of these great sounding monsters as well. They sound BIG when stock, and will surprise you even more when you do some work on the crossovers [caps] , clean the attenuators etc. I still have all the original parts like cobreflex horns plus drivers, crossovers and tweeters which are all of very good quality. Funny that the cab on the right shows the braces and the other one doesn't; I've seen pics of both versions and tend to think that in those days changes were carried out whenever the manufacturer decided so. Another possabiltity is that they are home-made and the one who build the one with braces spend more efford and time than the other one. The bass-section of this horn may surprise you when you are used listening to other hornspeakers; these horns easily reach into the midband like I mentioned in one of my earlier posts. [due to the simple fold I am told]. The original folder says that it is because of the "one mouth-opening" design of this horn, unlike the Klipschorn for example which is a separated design. You can also go two-way with these, I know a guy who is very pleased with the result..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 Just looked at the original documentation I have and it very much lookes like the right one with the braces is a original one. The other one is probably made for the speakerkit that was available at that time to build your own cabs. Everything from the braces, to the blocks that allow conversion from "low boy" to "high boy" , look to be original on the right one. If the crossover was located in the back and the controls on the woofer-acces panel, then I'm quite convinced that one is original. Nice !! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicook Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Thanks for the info. I was told by the previous owner that one of the speakers, which I thought was the one on the left, was originally built in the late 50s, and then the second one was added in 1961. The previous owner's Dad was an audiophile and was the original owner. Anyway, I went ahead and moved the horn brackets to the tall side and new caps are on order. I will listen to them for a while before I consider upgrades or mods. If I went to try 2-way, does the original speaker require the crossover point at 350Hz? The drivers that go that low are a significant investment, more than I have paid for the speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicook Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 (edited) The speaker on the left has the crossover controls on the top of the box, but you can see the stained square on the side where it originally had the base setup as a low boy. The speaker on the right had the crossover inside below the tweeter and access to the controls from the inside. Edited May 15, 2014 by musicook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 (edited) If you want to go two-way, look for a 2" driver and horn combination. Ofcourse you still would need a higher crossoverpoint ,but you'll need other crossovers anyway if going this route.... It might be a good idea to think about going active like me; when you have another amp laying around and buy a MiniDSP, you'll be able to tailor just about everything to your liking. Also you'll be able to swap drivers when you want to and get the max out of the system; works for me. If you don't want to spend that much I'd suggest to stick with the three-way operation because they already sounded impressive when they still were in original shape ! I would add braces to the one not having them, as those rear panels are quite large..... The bracing inside the woofer compartment stiffen both sides of the compartment at the same and such is a good idea. ----BUT as can be seen on the pics, the existing ones make the woofer-compartment drastically smaller so mine do not reach from top to bottom. I left a space of 10cm open at the bottom and 5cm at the top. This makes the woofer-acces panels very stiff. . Nico Edited May 15, 2014 by nico boom 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 I thought that some of the members looking at alternate horns and drivers might find Nico's thread of interest.There are a number of Classic owners at AudioKarma who assure me that the classic can outperform the Khorn and remember also Dr. Bruce Edgar who also prefers the Classics architecture as well, which truly is a classic. There are two versions of the classic bass horn the one here that Nico uses and a corner version which can be used in either the vertical or horizontal corners. Hope this is of interest. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicook Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I've continued to use them in my Home Theater and House Concert. I was powering them with a Crown amp for the house concerts, but this weekend, I decided to try powering them with my Dynaco ST70 which you can see of to the right. It worked out well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eth2 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 The thing I was taken with was that you said you did this with your father, and your relationship was not great. I wish I had he opportunity to do something with my father with whom I have not spoken in several years. I hope things got better as a result of this project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.