KG 5.5 sounding "flat"

[moray james]

I am never surprised by what people fail to notice. Leaky boxes do impact bass reflex (including passive) performance how much will depend upon the design in question. One way or the other it is worth correcting if it is there and it is worth the time to check. It pays to make a list and check things off. Theses things sometime turn out to be very obvious in the end like your example of the blown woofer or missing jumpers. There are so many bad amplifiers out there that would be the first thing I would swap out. It is hard to find an amp that can make good quality bass. Sounds like the obvious things have been listed here but that is still no guarantee that the OP will or has checked them all out properly. To the OP please don't take my comments personally as I have no idea what you have or have not done.

I have suggested that people experiment with positioning (and been told they have tried everything) only to go to their home and ask the wife to find out nothing has been move not even an inch. At length diagnostics like this can be a bust but the list of suggestions is well worth it for readers if they come across a similar situation. Best regards Moray James.

[001]

moray: i didnt "fail to notice" anything. your suggestion is worth checking, but speaking from experience, a loose baffle board will not change the bass anywhere near what it sounds like the OP is talking about. as i said, i have had kg5.5's with loose boards, the bass was exactly the same as before the board starting vibrating, only now it had a "buzz" that happened on hard bass hits.

i'm sure you know that air & other things will always take the path of least resistance, a 4" port/hole in the cabinet will not allow hardly any air to leak past a less than paper thin seam, there just isnt enough pressure because of the large hole, it will go out the port. on a sealed cabinet obviously that is different. my point was, to have the OP pull woofers & hit the boards with a hammer to check for looseness is most likely not going to resolve the issue of what sounds like drastically less bass than he remembers. it may fix a vibration problem if its there but it is not the reason for his loss of bass.

by all means check each & every suggestion made & good luck identifying the problem.

[mustang guy]

moray: these are ported speakers with a huge 4" hole in the front, loose baffle boards wont leak any air, 99.9% of the air movement will come out that big port. & if by chance a microscopic amount of air did happen to "leak" out a baffle board seam, it wouldn't kill the bass like the OP is saying. dont mean to argue but i doubt a loose baffle board is causing this issue. & if they were that loose, he would hear severe vibration & rattling. & some of the kg's did have the bad glue issue that caused loose baffles... i had a pair that had to be sent in to klipsch for warranty repair... however, as bad as the rattle was.... it did NOT effect the bass output at all, just made a bad vibration up loud.

mustang: the kg5.5's are not rear passive speakers, they are dual active front firing woofers.

he's either got a blown/bad woofer(s) or a major placement issue, or there is something wrong with the settings on the receiver. aside from the normal bass controls or EQ settings, check that the sub is turned "off" in the settings. many current receivers default to sub on which cuts bass to the front mains & sends it to the LFE output for a sub. a 6month old yamaha avr should have plenty of power to make the 5.5's have the excellent bass they are known for.

either that or his memory of what they used to sound like is off.

Thanks. I was thinking of the 4.5's.

[moray james]

moray: i didnt "fail to notice" anything. your suggestion is worth checking, but speaking from experience, a loose baffle board will not change the bass anywhere near what it sounds like the OP is talking about. as i said, i have had kg5.5's with loose boards, the bass was exactly the same as before the board starting vibrating, only now it had a "buzz" that happened on hard bass hits.

i'm sure you know that air & other things will always take the path of least resistance, a 4" port/hole in the cabinet will not allow hardly any air to leak past a less than paper thin seam, there just isnt enough pressure because of the large hole, it will go out the port. on a sealed cabinet obviously that is different. my point was, to have the OP pull woofers & hit the boards with a hammer to check for looseness is most likely not going to resolve the issue of what sounds like drastically less bass than he remembers. it may fix a vibration problem if its there but it is not the reason for his loss of bass.

by all means check each & every suggestion made & good luck identifying the problem.

Please Klipschfancf4 I am not directing my comment of what people fail to notice towards you I directed it at "people" if I had meant it for you I would have used your name.I apologize, I did not intend for you to take my comments in this way please forgive me. I made a point of mentioning loose leaky baffles simply because so many "people" figure it does not matter and let it slide. If you are going to take the time to trouble shoot "your" speakers then take the time and do it right and check everything. People have to be forced to clean a connection then you find out they cleaned one connection and left all the others alone. "People" can be very lazy and that can and does come back and bite you in the end. So I agree that the loos baffles is probably not the problem here but it is important in the large picture so why not do things right? If you do a thorough job of checking things you can cross them off your list and you don't get any unwelcome surprises. Eventually you will find the problem.

So many times threads such as this turn out to be some simple and obvious thing but much effort was spent trying to help track it down and often against the OP who often fails to follow up. Again this comment is NOT directed at the OP of THIS thread. These threads are valuable tools for forum members to use when problems arise. Being through is worth while as different people (forum members) will have an assortment of situations. Best regards Moray James.

[001]

didnt take your comment personally at all, & didnt mean my reply that way either. sometimes its hard to read the tone or meaning in typed words. i was just explaining that i agreed with your suggestion to check it out, but wanted the OP to understand the probability of the baffle board causing the issue was very slim.

i agree these threads & forums can be a great help when correct information is provided. its been a great help to me in the short time i've been active here. i try to give that help back when its something i'm familiar with.

Edited April 23, 2014 by klipschfancf4

[Rivernuggets]

Thanks. I was thinking of the 4.5's.

The KG 3.2, 4.2, & 5.2 have sealed cabinets with a passive woofer on the front, located below the active. The KG 3.5, 4.5, & 5.5 are ported in the front. Yes this is nitpicky and off topic.

mmcarbo, any luck?

You'll have to remove the upper woofer to do this, but check the wires that connect to each woofer. It's possible a connection came loose and you're operating with one or two unpowered woofers.

If the innards check out, I agree with others in trying a different receiver or amp and comparing the bass to your new Yamaha. Some HT receivers just don't have the oomf. Not picking on Yamaha here.

Carl asked a good question. What did you use before the Yamaha?

[beeker]

Thanks. I was thinking of the 4.5's.

The KG 3.2, 4.2, & 5.2 have sealed cabinets with a passive woofer on the front, located below the active. The KG 3.5, 4.5, & 5.5 are ported in the front. Yes this is nitpicky and off topic.

mmcarbo, any luck?

You'll have to remove the upper woofer to do this, but check the wires that connect to each woofer. It's possible a connection came loose and you're operating with one or two unpowered woofers.

If the innards check out, I agree with others in trying a different receiver or amp and comparing the bass to your new Yamaha. Some HT receivers just don't have the oomf. Not picking on Yamaha here.

Carl asked a good question. What did you use before the Yamaha?

Good catch! Mustang guys a bit uppity with his lascalas lol glad your correcting him so i can help rub it in. Man Craig, time to get some kg's or just study them lol. Poor folks like me only know the facts apparently

[mustang guy]

I am dazed and confused for sure. I have KG-4.2's, 2.2,s and 2.5's. For some strange reason I was thinking the .5's were rear passive.

I must be mistaking them for Fortes. That has to be it.

[Rivernuggets]

I was thinking the .5's were rear passive. I must be mistaking them for Fortes.

You mean Forte IIs.

Mustang guys a bit uppity with his lascalas lol

Ported....Passive....the La Scala doesn't mess with these details!

mmcarbo, don't let our banter bother you. We are interested in what your solution will be. Let us know.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Rivernuggets

[mustang guy]

I was thinking the .5's were rear passive. I must be mistaking them for Fortes.

You mean Forte IIs.

Mustang guys a bit uppity with his lascalas lol

Ported....Passive....the La Scala doesn't mess with these details!

mmcarbo, don't let our banter bother you. We are interested in what your solution will be. Let us know.

Yer killing me.

[beeker]

I was thinking the .5's were rear passive. I must be mistaking them for Fortes.

You mean Forte IIs.

Mustang guys a bit uppity with his lascalas lol

Ported....Passive....the La Scala doesn't mess with these details!

mmcarbo, don't let our banter bother you. We are interested in what your solution will be. Let us know.

Yer killing me.

Nah yer just a bit spoiled

[Rivernuggets]

Yer killing me.

This is fun.

AND it's good to have accurate info for folks who come across this thread.

[Deang]

I've had a set of 5.5's for about 18 years. Now using them with a Yamaha receiver and they don't have the bass punch I remember from years past. I have tried room calibration and bypassing the AVR EQ. There isn't any more wow factor listening to music. Is it time to finally replace these beasts?

Modern day AVRs, unless you really throw some serious money at them, don't fare well compared against the old stuff. I have both a Denon 3808ci and an older Luxman R-117 receiver and the Luxman makes the Denon sound like there's something wrong with it.

When you change something in your system and you don't like the result, try not to overthink the problem.

[CECAA850]

If the innards check out, I agree with others in trying a different receiver or amp and comparing the bass to your new Yamaha. Some HT receivers just don't have the oomf. Not picking on Yamaha here.

Carl asked a good question. What did you use before the Yamaha?

I'd still like to know. My son has a pair of CV's that he ran for quite some time on a mid 70's integrated 60wpc JVC amp. The bass would kill you with those things. He needed the switching abilities that an AVR provided as his equipment list grew. He switched to a 100wpc Pioneer receiver and that bass virtually disappeared. It was still there but the new Pioneer didn't have the current to pound the woofers like the old JVC did.

[mustang guy]

If the innards check out, I agree with others in trying a different receiver or amp and comparing the bass to your new Yamaha. Some HT receivers just don't have the oomf. Not picking on Yamaha here.

Carl asked a good question. What did you use before the Yamaha?

I'd still like to know. My son has a pair of CV's that he ran for quite some time on a mid 70's integrated 60wpc JVC amp. The bass would kill you with those things. He needed the switching abilities that an AVR provided as his equipment list grew. He switched to a 100wpc Pioneer receiver and that bass virtually disappeared. It was still there but the new Pioneer didn't have the current to pound the woofers like the old JVC did.

Remember how those old units weighed a ton. I think those old receivers had more robust transformers so they didn't run out of juice when the demand was high. To today's standards they would be considered over-engineered. I think that's why the old Marantz receivers are selling for so much. They slam. Also, the first Heresy's I ever heard were being driven by a JVC receiver, and they sounded fantastic.

Funny thing is that even with my pre-pro and it's abilities, I just don't get the thumping bass I long for. I figured it was mostly the room size. One thing I did figure out was that when I disable Audyssey, EQ, THX, and all the other crap and hand tune it, the bass is there. Like I said in my first post, room calibration is going to make the sounds more like the original. That's fine for movies, but with music, I like a bit more bass and midbass.

Edited April 25, 2014 by mustang guy

[Rivernuggets]

My son has a pair of CV's that he ran for quite some time on a mid 70's integrated 60wpc JVC amp. The bass would kill you with those things.

A high school friend had floorstanding CVs and heavy music sounded great. I'd love to hear a set with a vintage amp like that JVC.

Yes certain 70s and 80s receivers/amps really give great sound. I really enjoy my HK 430 and 730. The 730 pushes 45 watts. Doesn't sound like much but it's so satisfying to listen to.

Funny thing is that even with my pre-pro and it's abilities, I just don't get the thumping bass I long for.

Maybe you should try one of those Niles receiver-selector-switch boxes (Tech term). Then you could use your Integra for movies and whatever you find awesome for two channel listening.

[mmcarbo]

I was using a 15 year old Onkyo receiver. I hope to have time on Sunday to check the 5.5's out. Thanks for all the suggestions.

[billybob]

I have been kicking around the idea, good or bad, of checking out my older Yamaha AVR with my still new to me KG5.5's

With my 1980 45 wpc NEC aut int., I have as much bass as the source material provides, which sometime is quite alot.

While at the same time hearing the Chorus hooked up to the NEC unit, in my present avatar.

Only by checking with another unit, as we have suggested, will you have some idea as to what may be happening...IMLO

LOL, no pressure...

[mustang guy]

Funny thing is that even with my pre-pro and it's abilities, I just don't get the thumping bass I long for.

Maybe you should try one of those Niles receiver-selector-switch boxes (Tech term). Then you could use your Integra for movies and whatever you find awesome for two channel listening.

I am using just such a setup with my front 2. The amps are Fisher 80-AZ monoblocks. They are 30 watt'ers, and they make the LaScalas sing. I am running that pair through a Paradigm X30 to send sub-bass to a pair of THT's driven by a Crown XLS-202. The setup really sounds great. When watching movies, or otherwise listening to all channel music, I am using a pair of KPT-684's driven by a Yamaha P7000S. They fill the room better than the THT's, which are a bit small for the space, which is ~120,000 cubic ft.

[CECAA850]

I was using a 15 year old Onkyo receiver.

What model?