babadono Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 a piece of electrical tape will fix that green light Yea and its reversible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I have a very hard time believing they would make you consider selling dual UM 18's unless you still haven't set them up right yet. I'm assuming his 18's are sealed. If that's the case it's not a stretch to think that a ported 15 would at least keep up, especially around the Fb of the box. Yes they are sealed. The end result of the two different setups are much different than I expected. I love the 18's at least at high power, but down at the lowest audible frequencies, quite honestly these 15's are beating them. No they're not set up in terms of setting limiters as I'm sure you're thinking but in terms of sound output down low when I'm flexing the hell out of them, yeah the Klipsch is more than keeping up, especially down low. It makes me want to put the 18's in a ported box, except after port, bracing, and driver displacement, I'm literally looking at about 28 cubic feet worth of boxes to tune it to 15 hz. That's literally what it would take to outperform these Klipsch 15's. Which, is pretty ridiculous. I could probably get away with the 8 cubic foot per driver version but that's pretty much the minimum, Dayton recommends 12 cubic feet internal per driver, then you've got multiple 44" long ports you have to accommodate. I will say that the 18's have a smoother upper roll-off, or something. The Klipsch's don't sound as clean at the upper sub frequencies. 20 something hz though these 15's are outputting more than the 18's, surprising as it may be. Actually this really shouldn't be all that surprising. Consider the article below by SVS: http://www.svsound.com/t/sealed-vs-ported "The result is 2-4X more peak dynamic output in the 18-36 Hz octave as compared to a sealed subwoofer in the same family/price range." FOUR times the output! !!!!??!! Look at that graph, at 18 hz you're looking at like 94 db vs. around 102, at 16 hz it's even worse, about 9 db difference. Considering 6 db is the equivalent of doubling both your drivers and power, then double your power again to get another 3 db... that's a huge friggin difference. I realize we're comparing apples to oranges to some extent, but when I see a sealed 18 flexing hard, then I see a ported 15 flexing not as hard but putting out more sound, and I've experimented with every position possible in the room with both, I'm going to call a spade a spade and say that really has nothing to do with how I set up my DSP on the iNuke. This thread started with angusruler buying a 12" Klipsch sub. Now we're comparing what 15" sub to what 18" sub? Did i miss sumtin? I know i musta. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 This thread started with angusruler buying a 12" Klipsch sub. Now we're comparing what 15" sub to what 18" sub? Did i miss sumtin? I know i musta. Typical thread wander. I'm about the worst in committing this offense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Typical thread wander. I'm about the worst in committing this offense. A squirrel wandered by a page ago or so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 This thread started with angusruler buying a 12" Klipsch sub. Now we're comparing what 15" sub to what 18" sub? Did i miss sumtin? I know i musta. Sorry, I was viewing my comments as more like comparing these new Klipsch offerings to some of the best DIY choices, and being surprised that the Klipsch is coming out on top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I'm not complaining, just want to be able to follow. Because I am trying to decide whether to to build 18" sealed or a 15" ported sub(s). Big but not too big for the family room. A THT is non starter for this room and an IB is not feasible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 A THT is non starter for this room and an IB is not feasible. What about an F-20? The footprint isn't too big on that. It's pretty tall though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Hmmmm.... Is there a flat pack available for this? Is it like a Marty sub turned on its end? I want to start out easy on this DIY sub building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) I'm not complaining, just want to be able to follow. Because I am trying to decide whether to to build 18" sealed or a 15" ported sub(s). Big but not too big for the family room. A THT is non starter for this room and an IB is not feasible. From what I've seen, the only time to go sealed is if you have tons of drivers or are more interested in tight music than super low effects. Some of the guys running 16 18's can get away with sealed even on super low stuff due to the sheer muscle, but with only 1 or 2 drivers, I say put that port to work if you want low effects. I wouldn't have said this 3 days ago but the difference is too striking. Edited October 24, 2014 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 A THT is non starter for this room and an IB is not feasible. What about an F-20? The footprint isn't too big on that. It's pretty tall though. Cecaa850, Those F-20s are 5 ft tall, don't think they'll pass WAF either. Not in the family room. And they're horns, I've got RF-7 IIs as mains. Wouldn't sealed or ported go better with them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I'm not complaining, just want to be able to follow. Because I am trying to decide whether to to build 18" sealed or a 15" ported sub(s). Big but not too big for the family room. A THT is non starter for this room and an IB is not feasible. From what I've seen, the only time to go sealed is if you have tons of drivers or are more interested in tight music than super low effects. Some of the guys running 16 18's can get away with sealed even on super low stuff due to the sheer muscle, but with only 1 or 2 drivers, I say put that port to work if you want low effects. I wouldn't have said this 3 days ago but the difference is too striking. hate to say it but you mention super low effects and that is where sealed will pull away from just about any ported sub. i guess i am just gonna have to buy one of these things to run against a pair of my 18's in smaller sealed boxes on half the amp you have and see if the results are still that same. and the whole having to have tons of them is false. i went from dual svs ultra's (which i am POSITIVE) would trump the new klipsch sub, to just four sealed subs. which are in stacks of two. so i basically have two 20x24 inch footprint subs which destroy my svs in EVERY single aspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 A THT is non starter for this room and an IB is not feasible. What about an F-20? The footprint isn't too big on that. It's pretty tall though. Cecaa850, Those F-20s are 5 ft tall, don't think they'll pass WAF either. Not in the family room. And they're horns, I've got RF-7 IIs as mains. Wouldn't sealed or ported go better with them? sealed or ported isn't really important. they will both blend fine with 7II's if setup properly. if you can only have one sub and you wanna go diy then maybe a martycube would be good. just keep in mind as easy as some of us make it sound to do a diy sub and use a pro amp, setting up the dsp is not for beginners and can be impossible if you do not have measuring equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) hate to say it but you mention super low effects and that is where sealed will pull away from just about any ported sub. Depends on the definition of super-low I suppose. I'm pretty sure that it is VERY well known that at around the tuning frequency of a ported box, it will kill a sealed sub of the same type and same power. Cut that frequency in half though, and yeah sealed will win out. When I posted before I have used phrases like the lowest audible frequencies. I'm not talking about 8-12 hz here. and the whole having to have tons of them is false. i went from dual svs ultra's (which i am POSITIVE) would trump the new klipsch sub, to just four sealed subs. which are in stacks of two. so i basically have two 20x24 inch footprint subs which destroy my svs in EVERY single aspect. Aren't you running 18's now? If you want to talk about a mismatched comparison... how is comparing two 13's to four 18's not mismatched? Goodness. At least I'm sticking with a comparison of the same number of drivers in a more similar size. Saying my statements are null and void because four 18's kills two 13's that "maybe" have half the power is silliness. Edited October 25, 2014 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) duplicate post, something messed up. Edited October 25, 2014 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) just gonna have to buy one of these things to run against a pair of my 18's (from another thread:) it isn't a fair fight AT ALL You're actually going to pay good money to see if one 15 can hang with two 18's, while wondering about fair fights? Get closer to a 1:1 comparison, aka. "apples to apples", and maybe we can talk about a fair fight. Edited October 25, 2014 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 My take on sealed VS ported is sealed works best in rooms under 2200-2500 cu ft. Room gain works in smaller room and will raise the low end for a sealed system. Ported subs work well for larger rooms. Ported enclosures will beat most similar sealed down to 15 Hz. Less than 15 Hz and sealed will dominate. Sealed are no better for music than a ported sub in general and don't use the myth of tighter bass. Sealed enclosures are small and space friendly. Ported enclosure are around 10 db + over a similar sealed box down to 15 Hz. You need multiple sealed subs to generate suffiecient under 15 Hz before the extra extension becomes meaningful. To get a ported box under 15 Hz you need a huge box and a lot of excursion. This causes cost and space issues. You will not benefit from a sealed system unless you can reach at leat 105 db at the MLP. Ported are not better than sealed subs, it depends on your application and goals for your bass system. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) My take on sealed VS ported is sealed works best in rooms under 2200-2500 cu ft. 15 maybe 1-2" x 20'4" with 9' ceilings for me, real close to 2750 cubic feet. Not sure if that makes a big difference. Also I have yet to experience any single digit subsonic frequencies on either. I'm sure a well set-up sealed would be great for that and no I'm not there yet. All I know is that 20 something hz that you can actually hear sounds killer with the Klipsch. Edited October 25, 2014 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) That is similar to my family room which was also open to the kitchen and dinning area. A little to large for two sealed subs in most cases if you want room shaking bass. You will get a little but, not enough. No matter how you set them up, they may not be enough. Do you use the PEQ? A bass boost on top of Auddysee may be the problem. If you are not using PEQ and still bottoming out some times, you did the right thing in getting ported subs. The only other choice is nearfield placement, i.e., less than 4 ft. between the sub and MLP. This may mean you loose a boundry and 3-6 db of spl. I have great output from my ported and sealed boxes but, the trade off is there size which most wives will not tolerated in a living or family room. Look into shakers, they are a lot of fun and then there is less need to worry about chest slam and extension. Who wants 8 or 16 subs in a room, lol. We are just trying to enjoy a movie and maybe some music, lol. Edited October 25, 2014 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Also I have yet to experience any single digit subsonic frequencies on either. Then you need an IB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 And they're horns, I've got RF-7 IIs as mains. Wouldn't sealed or ported go better with them? As stated above, they'd blend fine. Thaddeussmith had his with RF-5's and it integrated very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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