Clipped and Shorn Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 Any opinions regarding the sonics of the ribbed plate versus the smooth plate Telefunken 12AX7. Any (real) reason not to mix them up in the same piece of apparatus? Any reason besides the sound of the word "smooth" that makes these "flat" plate tubes apparently more desireable? Anyone else notice that the imprinting of the <> diamond bottom imprint seems to fade with the later productions which are still considered authentic German made 12AX7, even to the point where it is fairly faint and difficult to discern. The early production states "Made in Germany", then later it goes to "Made in Western Germany" then later it goes back to "Made in Germany". I have seen some later "Made in Germany" which I have been convinced are "authentic" Telefunkens although the <> is barely discernable. -C&S ------------------ Cornwalls currently upgrading to all tube components Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 Craig, I certainly like these. The mid and high freq reproduction is very smooth and pleasing to my ears. Do wish they had the low-end control of some Mullards. But there are usually tradeoffs, and Mullards have theirs too. I do feel that I would not want an all Telfunken tubed layout, because I suspect that the overall sound might be a bit too bright for me. Having Telefunken's in the phono stage and Mullard's for buffer, line stage and as rectifiers, is way to go for my setup. Since NOS Tel's wont afford any significant advantages in the bass region, I will save some dollars and use later production ones. Will spend those dollars on some premium E80CC's for Buffer use. Thanks that info was very helpful. Wes ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 Doing some internet research, it seems that the ability of the labels to be rubbed out is more a sign of authenticity for Telefunkens than the clarity of the <> imprint. This whole "fake" tube thing is a labyrinth. -C&S ------------------ Cornwalls currently upgrading to all tube components Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump2 Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 I see Cortex Clipped has the same approach to Audio as Politics. Nonsense and after extensive research, making a label rubbing off into some highly technical cultural phenomanon. You such a contribution there Cortex Clipped. MUHAHA ------------------ Go Forth and Hump the World Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted August 12, 2002 Author Share Posted August 12, 2002 Some good feedback here... I was wondering if I could mix a couple of Mullard 12AX7 CV4004 box plates in the 2 phono stages and two Telefunken 12AX7's in the 2 line stages. I have heard from many that the CV4004 box plates are the way to go for phono. Anyway, just curious and still looking. I should have the 299 by tomorrow or Wednesday, and will get comfortable with the current sound before I start rolling tubes in her... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 C&S, The made in germany with the faded <> mark are not real Telefunkens.They were manufactured in the EI factory in Yugoslavia in the 80's and some were manufactured by Siemens. The fake telefunkens also have better quality logos printed on the tubes that don't wear and fade like the original ones. I can describe the sound of the ribbed plates as more accurate (hifi)than the flat plates but with less midrange magic.The bass is still a little boomy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 Guy, Thanks for the info. There seems to be a lot of ideas regarding the subject of fake NOS etc. http://www.1388.com/articles/shame/ "Original Telefunken tube has a diamond shape molded onto the bottom of the glass for identification. But, my pair does not have such diamond identification. "Telefunken ECC82By looking at its plate design, I suspect that the tubes were manufactured by RFT (also in Germany) for Telefunken and released in markets under Telefunken label. On the another hand, I remember, one Hi Fi magazine said that in 70-80 Mullard manufactured tubes for Telefunken as per their specifications. These tubes were printed with the unique date codes and logo of the original Telefunken except for no diamond mark at the tube bottom. So, are these genuine tubes or fakes? " -C&S ------------------ Cornwalls currently upgrading to all tube components This message has been edited by Clipped and Shorn on 08-12-2002 at 03:52 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 I do this the easy way and relieve all the confusion. If it doesn't have a easy to spot <> on the bottom I don't want it !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@silverfox@ Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 tss tss tsssss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Mike Lindsey: ....I was wondering if I could mix a couple of Mullard 12AX7 CV4004 box plates in the 2 phono stages and two Telefunken 12AX7's in the 2 line stages. I have heard from many that the CV4004 box plates are the way to go for phono. Anyway, just curious and still looking....Mike I see no reason why you could not do that if your Scott uses 12AX7's in the line stage. Not sure what affect they would have on the Scott's sonic characteristics? My Cary uses 12AU7's for line and buffer stages. I've chose to stick with the Mullard CV4003's in my line stage. Will leave the Telefunken 12AX7's in the phono stage a bit longer for more evaluation. I've heard that E80CC's (6085's) perform very well in the SLP-94's buffer stage. So I plan to get a couple in the near furture for evaluation. Pretty sure you will enjoy the tube experience! Wes BTW -I'm really ticked off that UPS damaged one of the RF-3's I sold to Scott, a Klipsch Member. Those speakers were in like new condition. Getting the claim process started, but really PISSED! Just had to vent a bit. ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 The Teles I have seen, 12AX7's and 6DJ8's had the Diamond MOLDED into the glass on the bottom. C+S, If Mullard made tubes for Telefunken, I wouldn't really say they are fake. If you want to get Technical, they would be I guess. Either way, they would probably sound fine. Keep in mind guys, that these different brands of tubes will react different in different circuits. Don't forget about the coupling caps and resistors underneath them. They'll affect sound as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Alan, You might be able to someday retire on those Telefunkens.... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1372299048 -C&S ------------------ Cornwalls currently upgrading to all tube components Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted August 13, 2002 Author Share Posted August 13, 2002 Tube World has a couple of matched pairs of ECC803S's for $1195. Mike This message has been edited by Mike Lindsey on 08-13-2002 at 06:57 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 For that price,his grandsons will probably inherit them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afvn72 Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 I'm retubing an Eico HF-81 and am researching 12AX7's. There is an interesting, lengthy, 12AX7 review in "Joe's Tube Lore" on Audioasylum. The author concludes that almost all 12AX7's "suck" (his word, not mine) and that many 5751's, like the RCA's mentioned earlier, are superior audio tubes. I have a Fisher 800C, a 400 and an X202 that are loaded with Telefunkens. I think they are wonderful but I may give the 5751's a shot in the Eico. Brett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 quote: Originally posted by ShapeShifter: RCA "Command" 5751 Black Plates are an acceptable substute for 12AX7's. The 5751 Command is a very good tube, as most RCA Black Plates are. They don't have the full depth and mid range bloom the Mullards have, but they are a very worthy subsitute. They can sometimes be found at good prices (low to mid 20's), but usually higher. Tube resellers generally ask $50 per tube. I made a luckly find and scored a quad for a little over $40. They serve as back-ups for my CV4004/ECC83 Mullard's, since I have not found Telefunken's within my preferred price. You may want to add the RCA Command 5751 to your list as well. Also 7025's are a substitute for the 12AX7. Wes The above were my impressions with RCA Command 5751 Black Plates installed in my Preamp. But as Mobile Homeless and Mike Stehr both stated earlier, all tube circuits are not the same. Could account for the differences between the aforementioned reviewers findings and my subjective results. To my ears, the Mullard and Telefunken 12AX7's win out over the RCA 5751's. Not buy a huge margin, but better non the less. ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted August 14, 2002 Author Share Posted August 14, 2002 Who'd a thought this thread would make it to 3 pages? I appreciate all the comments on this topic. It's quite evident that a lot of other people feel the same way as well. Right now I'm leaning towards the Mullard 12AX7 CV4004 box plates because my turntable will probably get more use than the Rega. If I can find a quad set for around $120, I'll jump on it. BTW, I just spotted an ad in the local paper for Khorns and called the guy. He said they belonged to his father (bought new) and are mint. Serial numbers have a "P", which I think is from 1976, and they are Oiled Walnut. He's asking $2K for them... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 I just bought a quad of 60's NOS Mullard ECC82's for $81.00. I will remove the current CV4003's and try a pair in the line stage. They will match the ECC82's already in the buffer slots. Hopefully, they will arrive by the end of next week. ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted August 15, 2002 Author Share Posted August 15, 2002 Let me know what you think of them, Wes... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted August 15, 2002 Share Posted August 15, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Mike Lindsey: Let me know what you think of them, Wes... Mike Will do! ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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