May build new front CF-3 baffles

[avguytx]

I've thought seriously about building new front baffles for my CF-3's where they are a WWT setup versus WTW so the horn is up top. When I had the front and rear boards off awhile back, I saw it wouldn't be too hard to replicate them for trying it. I have all of the tools to do it; table, jig, and circular saw, routers and bits, air tools, etc. Sure, I can't do the black wrapped material as that's heat formed on but I can still make something similar. (25 years of custom car audio installs and home installs help there) It wouldn't be a permanent thing as the front baffles are held on with 6 or 8 screws and can go right back where they were. I can also make the original grills work the same too. May have to do that before I have surgery done on both hands in the near future. (carpul tunnel, losing feeling, etc)

Edited January 31, 2015 by avguytx

[avguytx]

So no thoughts on that, huh?

[Paducah Home Theater]

So no thoughts on that, huh?

 

Some of the best designs out there are MTM.  I'd be afraid to jack with it, may do more harm than good.  

[wvu80]

Bad idea.  It will ruin the resale value of your very highly regarded CF-3. 

 

I realize you have the skills to make your own baffle and do this as a temporary trial, but MDF does not take well to re-installing screws multiple times.  If you want that horn at ear height, you might consider building a small pedestal or riser.

+++

 

One of the current "hot" speaker designs which is getting rave reviews is the JTR Noesis, at $4600 pr.  The idea is that you get a blended sound to your ears, instead of splitting up sound between woofs and tweets.  See anything you recognize? 

 

 

Edit:  The above picture is of the 212, with dual 12" woofs.  Here is a pic of the Noesis with the dual 10's, like your CF-3.  Whoops. 

 

 

I still think it's a bad idea to cut up your current CF-3. 

Edited February 1, 2015 by wvu80

[avguytx]

It's seriously no big deal to make a new front motorboard and retain the original one as is. There are 6 screws located behind the rubber grill peg holes and they are screwed into plywood...not mdf. If I were to do it, I'd re-attach the panels with machine screws and t-nuts on the back side. It wouldn't alter the cabinets at all.

I've heard the JTR's. Not sure I'd ever pay $4600 for those.

[wvu80]

If you decide to try that, get back to us with a review of how it goes. 

 

I'm not sure what Klipsch 2-way has a horn on top of dual woofs.  I'm sure there is one somewhere.

[pzannucci]

To try and change the WTW configuration, you will likely need to change the crossover.  WTW / MTM have different crossover requirements and the sound of the old crossover MAY be to your liking but is likely to be much less accurate.

[avguytx]

If you decide to try that, get back to us with a review of how it goes. 

 

I'm not sure what Klipsch 2-way has a horn on top of dual woofs.  I'm sure there is one somewhere.

KLF-10's do. KG-5.x series too I believe

[moray james]

So no thoughts on that, huh?

leave your CF cabinet alone and build up a set of trial cabinets and experiment all you want you have nothing to lose and only experience to gain. Personally I dislike WTW configurations they only work on axis and mess up off axis. Most of the Klipsch towers are WWT or WWMT. So easy to get your mid horn at ear level up on top of a pair of woofers instead of firing at your waist. Best regards Moray James.

[jason str]

To try and change the WTW configuration, you will likely need to change the crossover.  WTW / MTM have different crossover requirements and the sound of the old crossover MAY be to your liking but is likely to be much less accurate.

 

I agree, you can't just change your driver configuration and expect things to sound good without crossover modifications.

[moray james]

I am running my two KLF20 woofers with a CF3 network and an EV DH1A up on top of the cabinet fitted with a paper Karlson K-Tube and I have no complaints. Had the same network on my H3 with the DH1A (as a two way)on top and that sounds very good too. If you experiment,even with a plate to block off the horn opening and stick the horn on top of the cabinet what harm is there? The sun will still come up in the morning and you will be wiser for it. Sounds like you think that Klipsch xovers are super sophisticated while they are pretty basic for the most part in the Heritage and extended line up. People can learn a whole lot if they played with things and then thought about that. Experimenting is one of the very best ways to learn. No reason you cannot do a lot of experimenting and still go back to stock after for a reality check. What's with the Oh No attitude? Best regards Moray James.

[jason str]

Experimenting is good fun but what I'm saying is don't expect to change a design that countless hours have been spent perfecting without spending lots of time and cash on a project that may or may not sound better than it did in the first place.

[moray james]

Jason that may or may not be true and I think that a lot depends upon who is doing the modifying work but almost always valuable experience is gained. I think that the whole point of doing modification is to improve upon what the original designer/company had to offer up. Much of my work is not changing the design so much as improving what was done or simply left undone in the first place for a number of reasons. If you only removed physical and acoustical resonances things almost always will sound better and by a lot and very much better often.

If we limit our thinking with "I could never do better than him or them" we are not going to get very far no matter what the project is. This along with simply being lazy are the two biggest roadblocks we will ever come up against.

Your concern seems to be the waste of time and money spent with perhaps there being no practical gain in the quality of the speaker that is being worked on. Even if that were the case the learning experience and practical skills picked up are worth a lot and are gained no other way. I do think that modification is for a very very very small percentage of people but it can be very gratifying for those who are into it. Modification work like any pursuit can be a good way to learn limitations that alone is worth a little cash and perhaps a part or two to replace now and then. If you are not prepared to accidentally brake something then you should not mess with it in the first place. I don't think that there are too many perfect anythings out there on the market, if there were why would we need so much new stuff? Have fun out there, do make and follow a plan to get back to where you started from if things go wrong and everything should be fine at the end of the day. Best regards Moray James.

[wvu80]

Experimenting is good fun but what I'm saying is don't expect to change a design that countless hours have been spent perfecting without spending lots of time and cash on a project that may or may not sound better than it did in the first place.

 

I think you may have raised a good point I had forgotten.  The chief complaint about the CF-x series is that the horn may be a bit bright as in "overpowers the woofs" and may need to be attenuated.  If you pull that horn out from between those woofs and put it at ear level, you might be exacerbating the problem if that horn beams at your ears.

 

I know it's all for experimenting and having fun, but you might consider hooking up an L-pad to better balance the horn with the woofs.

Edited February 4, 2015 by wvu80

[moray james]

Experimenting is good fun but what I'm saying is don't expect to change a design that countless hours have been spent perfecting without spending lots of time and cash on a project that may or may not sound better than it did in the first place.

 

I think you may have raised a good point I had forgotten.  The chief complaint about the CF-x series is that the horn may be a bit bright as in "overpowers the woofs" and may need to be attenuated.  If you pull that horn out from between those woofs and put it at ear level, you might be exacerbating the problem if that horn beams at your ears.

 

I know it's all for experimenting and having fun, but you might consider hooking up an L-pad to better balance the horn with the woofs.

I not only damped my CF3/4 horns but I also braced them as well then I hooked them up to a set of EV DH1506 drivers. If there is a problem why not fix it. You can compare better drivers to the factory stock unit. Modifying around a problem will not get you far. No harm in the L-Pad if you want to adjust the level to suit. I found the stock horn walls to be so thin as to make a lot of noise when the speakers were played loud some brace work and some dynamat solved the problem of the horn. I also installed a 40mm ball into the horn set in so there was about 3/8" open space on either side of the ball horizontally. Mods don't get much easier or cheaper to do than that one. Best regards Moray James.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

I'm not saying not to try the new motorboard, but do you know why Roy choose the WMW layout?  I'm sure he had a reason.  It may be a very good one, or maybe not. 

[avguytx]

There's nothing major special about that crossover network. I've built far more exotic and complicated networks for car audio applications for single amp and multi amp systems that allotted for time alignment and phase coherency back in the days of actual good sounding cars in IASCA competition. These networks are simple. If the horns are bright on top, they can be attenuated with simple resistors. If it sounds like crap, no biggie. They go back to stock. It's simple to build new front baffles for experimenting which won't harm the originals.

I've got the majority of the wood working tools to build a pair of La Scala's or Belles if I really wanted to. But, time doesn't allow that anymore. I built my first pair of LS's 33 years ago with an uncle who was a master carpenter/craftsman/cabinet maker by trade. It would just be in good fun and would not jeopardize the structure or design of the cabinets.

Edited February 4, 2015 by avguytx

[avguytx]

I'm not saying not to try the new motorboard, but do you know why Roy choose the WMW layout?  I'm sure he had a reason.  It may be a very good one, or maybe not.

I definitely wouldn't question his design on them. Maybe it was part aesthetics to differentiate this series from others in the past, maybe it was something completely different. But I would question how the glue was applied to the cabinets for the front and back panels. One side had a ton at the top and none at the bottom. The other hardly had any at all around the perimeter. Maybe mine were made on Monday morning or Friday at 4:30pm. Ha. Who knows.

[BusaDude]

I've thought seriously about building new front baffles for my CF-3's where they are a WWT setup versus WTW so the horn is up top.

Why have you "thought seriously" about changing the CF-3?

Have you owned them long?

Do you not like the way they sound?

Do you prefer a WWT setup? Why? If so, why own CF-3's?

What do you hope to gain by having a WWT version of a CF-3?

I'm asking those questions because I see so many other posts where people get a new (or used) pair of speakers... And the first thing they ask is, "What should I do to them"? Or, "How can I make them better"?

I'd say,"How about listen to them for several weeks or months", before asking how you could change them. So many people seem to equate "change/different" with being "better/improved".

And I would argue that 95% of the things/changes some people claim make a speaker "sound better/improved" are nothing more than subjective opinions. If you really want to convince someone, run a double blind test and pick out your "improvements" a statistically significant number of times.

Things like speaker wire, interconnects, rope caulk on a horn, added bracing inside a cabinet that wasn't that way originally, 2-way vs 3-way, WWT vs WTW, etc... All those things can represent changes or differences in a system. But does that make it "better"? To whose ears?

Sorry about the mini-rant...

They're your speakers and if you're just tinkering around or whatever, more power to you. But if you're really looking for improvements, then I hope you would consider some of the questions I asked.