Bass response on KLF-30's?

[cradeldorf]

Red wire, Red dot, Both speakers.

[avguytx]

Hit the woofers with a battery to insure there isn't something funky with the wiring or marking.  Both should move the same direction, both speakers with plus and minus.

 

Yeah, gonna disconnect the leads across the input terminals and check the woofers when I get home (and after I drop the riding mower off).  It's just odd.  I've had them out, metered the DCR on everything, etc., and pretty darn sure they are in parallel.  It ain't my first rodeo in checking phase problems out, for sure.    I have an ear for that whether it be low end or mid range response....not so much on highs since that range has lessened.  I used to walk into my retail car and/ home audio dealers and could hear when their display speakers were out of phase.  "Really? y'all think that sounds good???"  ha

[Max2]

Stuff high density foam or dish towels in the ports and get a cigarette lighter to look for cabinet leaks.  I think you would hear a little noise or rattle if the glue had turned loose, but this method will show even the slightest leak.

[avguytx]

Stuff high density foam or dish towels in the ports and get a cigarette lighter to look for cabinet leaks.  I think you would hear a little noise or rattle if the glue had turned loose, but this method will show even the slightest leak.

 

Good plan.  I already have intentions of moving the ports to the front of the cabinet if I decide to keep these.  It was easy to tell when I had a leak on one of my CF-3's because it was making a loud @$$ "thwack" noise on heavy bass notes.  But I redid both cabinets, of course.

[moray james]

a rubber mallet is a lot faster yes you have to remove the drivers but hey you want to get to the bottom of this or you want to wonder. If you did work on the cabinets then look first at the dust caps they can make a lot of loud noise, use a sharp point exacto knife and see if the dust cap is secure. Just because you did work does not mean that you fixed the problem. To repair the old hotmelt has to be removed along with the melamine surface veneer and re assemble with white glue will be better than new an will last forever and yes it is more work but it is not a patch it is a repair. I bought three sets of KLF20 and two needed all new baffle joints on both front and rear baffles. Both sets have been repaired now and are in service without a glitch.

[cradeldorf]

Let me just say that my KLF's had excellent bass until I heard some rf3's which have good mid bass, ever since that day my KLF's have been lacking bass. It's like Klipsch found a way to put a spell on us.

[cradeldorf]

 

Stuff high density foam or dish towels in the ports and get a cigarette lighter to look for cabinet leaks.  I think you would hear a little noise or rattle if the glue had turned loose, but this method will show even the slightest leak.

 

Good plan.  I already have intentions of moving the ports to the front of the cabinet if I decide to keep these.  It was easy to tell when I had a leak on one of my CF-3's because it was making a loud @$$ "thwack" noise on heavy bass notes.  But I redid both cabinets, of course.

 

Moving the ports to the front will only reduce the bass by reducing the distance the back wave has to travel before cancelling the front wave out.

Edited April 9, 2015 by cradeldorf

[pzannucci]

Moving the ports to the front may actually help.  Wavelengths of bass are very large at the port frequency so I doubt it will really cancel but may give better perception of punch on the front.

A major reason for moving the ports to the rear is if they are large, you will get a lot of mid-range bleed-thru.  You may not like the sound that way unless the ports are damped.  If you are going to bother moving them to the front, you may just want to try a slot loading vs. ports.  May be a little easier to tune for best results.

[avguytx]

They port the CF series to the front and it definitely makes it easier for placement to the wall whereas the KLF's are a little more picky about it.  Moving the ports will not do anything for cancellation of a front to back wave.  I notice no midrange bleed through with my CF-3's and, if dampened correctly, there's no issue.  Most likely none I would ever hear anyway.  

[SWL]

Let me just say that my KLF's had excellent bass until I heard some rf3's which have good mid bass, ever since that day my KLF's have been lacking bass. It's like Klipsch found a way to put a spell on us.

 

I had a pair of Forte ll's once......swore they were the worse speakers I had ever heard. Sold them a week later to a guy that basically had almost every Klipsch Heritage speaker throughout his house including K-horns. I brought him the Forte ll's, we hooked them up and Directly compared them to the properly placed K-horns and without hesitation I strongly thought the Forte ll's sounded so much better.....and they were just plopped down randomly without any placement concerns. I've had this experience with so many different Klipsch models.......I don't know what to think anymore other than I think you just have to get the particular speaker WORKING PROPERLY,  in YOUR ROOM, with YOUR EQUIPMENT and decide from there.

 

All of my KG's have really good mid-bass.....but put them side-by-side with some KLF-20's/30's and the difference is night and day. I had KLF-20's/30's, RF-7's, Forte's, Chorus ll's all in my room at the same time. I chose the 30's by a large margin but I have to wonder since the other speakers (except the RF-7's) were all 10-20+ years old that age and some other unknown limiting factors were at play due to age.

 

Your comment on RF-3's is interesting because I've read plenty of threads claiming the opposite.....that they lack bass. If I remember correctly you had a list a mile long of tweaks/mods that you made to your 30's. You may want to re-evaluate that list......I've found that keeping the 30's very close to what Klipsch had originally (besides the defects) was the ticket. Just my opinion and I know you've put a lot of effort in them but maybe something to consider. Usually making a change isn't necessarily better....it's just 'different'....giving the illusion that it might seem better......bet there's no doubt that the 3's may just work better in 'your' room with 'your' gear with 'your' ears etc. etc....

[avguytx]

If I can get the bass right, I'm good to go.  I'm not going all out into crazy stuff...just working properly and sounding good.  And I'll get them figured out as time allows.  I have a few other perfectly good pairs of speakers that sound great to work with (my CF-3's, Norman Lab Model 9's, JBL L100t's, Infinity Quantum 3's and RSIIIa's, and Celestion Ditton 44's)

 

I know what you mean about going way into something and the results be minimal to negligible in the grand scheme.  I recall reading a post from said person that the KLF-30's were "it" (so to speak).  Things change.  We are human.

Edited April 9, 2015 by avguytx

[SWL]

They port the CF series to the front and it definitely makes it easier for placement to the wall whereas the KLF's are a little more picky about it. Moving the ports will not do anything for cancellation

 

I've thought about trying this as well so I'm curious to see if you find that it was worthwhile. If anything it should be easily reversed.

[avguytx]

The typical rule of thumb I was always taught, and heard continually, in the audio world about porting is "twice the distance of the diameter from a solid object" and I've always gone by that with round ports.  So if a 4" ID port is inside of a cabinet, it should be 8" from any wall.  Thus, the reason we used a lot of 90 degree ports when doing subs in car audio versus going to a smaller diameter port.  

[SWL]

(2) 3" rear ports = 6".........I have mine exactly 12" from the rear wall. After extensive experimenting with placement.....it came down to within an inch or two.

 

Never have been aware of this rule of thumb so it's good to know I did something right.

[avguytx]

I know for sure that rule was taught by Rockford, JBL, Kicker, Orion, etc, etc., but many said the same thing in the home audio world.  It was primarily meant for the port being close to a solid object/wall in the "inside" of the cabinet and may not apply to outside of the cabinet.  That would all be personal choice in sound, I would think.

Edited April 9, 2015 by avguytx

[moray james]

Stuff high density foam or dish towels in the ports and get a cigarette lighter to look for cabinet leaks.  I think you would hear a little noise or rattle if the glue had turned loose, but this method will show even the slightest leak.

 

Good plan.  I already have intentions of moving the ports to the front of the cabinet if I decide to keep these.  It was easy to tell when I had a leak on one of my CF-3's because it was making a loud @$$ "thwack" noise on heavy bass notes.  But I redid both cabinets, of course.

Moving the ports to the front will only reduce the bass by reducing the distance the back wave has to travel before cancelling the front wave out.

this is just not correct. if you have vent(s) on the rear of the cabinet and the speakers position compromises the function of the vent due to wall proximity then what good are your vents if they don't work properly? Most vents are on the rear of the cabinet because they are poorly designed vents and they make noise or the leak midrange and by placing them on the back of the box you have a harder time hearing all that. nothing wrong with vents on the front of the box or the side or the top or the bottom so long as you position them so they can work properly. remember that at full action the air in a reflex vent can travel 1.5 times the vent length in and out of the vent so you do need to provide space so that vent action is not impeded. Best regards Moray James.

PS: proper vent action inside a cabinet is just as important as outside you can rationalize it all you want and compromise any way you like or need to but the fact remains the same.

Edited April 9, 2015 by moray james

[avguytx]

That post wasn't aimed at me was it?

[moray james]

That post wasn't aimed at me was it?

this is not target practice. once we know how things work we can then use that information to our advantage. every design is a compromise and every compromise has a reason but you need to know how things work to know if your compromise is reasonable in the first place. To expect diffraction issues to happen on the outside of a baffle but not on the inside of the baffle is not going to help you to optimize your loudspeakers performance. god is in the details.

[avguytx]

I do know what I'm doing Just in case anyone was wondering. Maybe I don't know Klipsch speakers inside out or the names of the workers mothers at the plant but this ain't my first rodeo on ported cabinets by far.

I had more typed out but decided not to be sarcastic and take the high road.

Edited April 10, 2015 by avguytx

[minkybut]

First of all let me say I love my KLF-30's, great bass response. I got my great response though from using a Nikko Alpha VI 300 wpc amp, a Mcintosh C32 preamp and a Dbx 10/20 eq. I don't have to use loudness. But what I wanted to ask here is that I have heard about the cab issues with these speakers. Mine do not have any separation issues yet. So I was wondering if I should put wood screws in the cabds to prevent the glue or help the glue not come apart?