Paducah Home Theater Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 I pay a hefty premium for 'Region Free' vinyl LP's all the time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twk123 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I pay a hefty premium for 'Region Free' vinyl LP's all the time... What? I am very particular about what I buy. I also go to the dealership to get OEM headlight fluid for my Subaru instead of the aftermarket crap they sell at Autozone. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I also go to the dealership to get OEM headlight fluid for my Subaru instead of the aftermarket crap they sell at Autozone. I normally top mine off when I change the air in my tires. It's warming up outside here and almost time to put the summer air in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I pay a hefty premium for 'Region Free' vinyl LP's all the time... What? I am very particular about what I buy. I also go to the dealership to get OEM headlight fluid for my Subaru instead of the aftermarket crap they sell at Autozone. How is analog media encoded to a particular region? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 How is analog media encoded to a particular region? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violetgrey Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 So, Metallica's Through The Never has twice the bit rate if you get the japanese version. Is it available anywhere that you know of? eBay, that's the only way to get the good stuff as far as I know. What I don't understand is that they are pressing the discs anyway. Exactly how much harder and more expensive would it be to press the good version? Makes no sense to me. It's like they're purposely giving us the crap version. 3D, maybe it's not as popular over here, I don't know, yeah it's an extra disc, whatever, but when it's the same exact thing except crappier here, I don't get it. Releases are usually from different distributors in different regions. Each of them gets to create their own release so they will take the same source materials and have all the compressing, mastering, encoding and such done by companies and to specifications that they choose in accordance with the customers they will be selling too. Region encoding is nothing more than a method of stopping one distributor from selling their product in another distributors region, as per the agreements they make. For instance, customers in Japan are willing to pay a higher premium price for their Blu-rays so the distributors often pay extra for better mastering, encoding and special features. In the US the average non-sale price range for a blu-ray is between $20-$25 dollars, with MSRP still set at $39.99 for the most part. Stores that sell them for less than that are usually getting a rebate from the distributor, who may or may not be the studio that actually created the content. The US markets lower price expectation forces the distributors to adjust down the list to hit the desired consumer price point. For instance, using a DD 5.1 as opposed to a DD-THD or DTS-HDMA track will reduce the audio file size, allowing for a lower capacity disk to be used.Smaller discs are cheaper and take less time to press, speeding up production and saving even more money. You also lower costs because you are not creating separate audio masters for your Blu-Ray and DVD releases. Not all distributors do this. For example, Criterion consistently produces some of the best blu-ray releases of films bother in terms of their technical output and supplemental content. However, most Criterion discs retail for anywhere between $28 - $40 dollars depending on where you look and if Criterion is having a sale. Criterion is very film maker friendly and will often invite the directors, producers, DP's and such to participate in the mastering and production of their material, attempting to ensure that the quality of the outcome is sufficient to please the original content creators. Very few distributors do this, usually putting production of this material into the hands of their home video division who makes choices based on their project cost targets and the dictates from their parent companies. This is one of the reasons we tend to get Directors Cut releases down the road. In these instances, for whatever reason, the original film makers have been invited to participate in a re-release of the material that will often include adjustments to visual or audio content that puts the releases quality more in line with the original productions intentions for the final output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoCables Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Releases are usually from different distributors in different regions. Each of them gets to create their own release so they will take the same source materials and have all the compressing, mastering, encoding and such done by companies and to specifications that they choose in accordance with the customers they will be selling too. Region encoding is nothing more than a method of stopping one distributor from selling their product in another distributors region, as per the agreements they make. For instance, customers in Japan are willing to pay a higher premium price for their Blu-rays so the distributors often pay extra for better mastering, encoding and special features. In the US the average non-sale price range for a blu-ray is between $20-$25 dollars, with MSRP still set at $39.99 for the most part. Stores that sell them for less than that are usually getting a rebate from the distributor, who may or may not be the studio that actually created the content. The US markets lower price expectation forces the distributors to adjust down the list to hit the desired consumer price point. For instance, using a DD 5.1 as opposed to a DD-THD or DTS-HDMA track will reduce the audio file size, allowing for a lower capacity disk to be used.Smaller discs are cheaper and take less time to press, speeding up production and saving even more money. You also lower costs because you are not creating separate audio masters for your Blu-Ray and DVD releases. Not all distributors do this. For example, Criterion consistently produces some of the best blu-ray releases of films bother in terms of their technical output and supplemental content. However, most Criterion discs retail for anywhere between $28 - $40 dollars depending on where you look and if Criterion is having a sale. Criterion is very film maker friendly and will often invite the directors, producers, DP's and such to participate in the mastering and production of their material, attempting to ensure that the quality of the outcome is sufficient to please the original content creators. Very few distributors do this, usually putting production of this material into the hands of their home video division who makes choices based on their project cost targets and the dictates from their parent companies. This is one of the reasons we tend to get Directors Cut releases down the road. In these instances, for whatever reason, the original film makers have been invited to participate in a re-release of the material that will often include adjustments to visual or audio content that puts the releases quality more in line with the original productions intentions for the final output. Thank you. I'd say that if all of this is 100% accurate, then this definitively answers the question. It's sad, but it makes sense. Thanks to this thread though, I will forever be suspicious of the actual audio quality all of my DVD movies and what it COULD it have been. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violetgrey Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Releases are usually from different distributors in different regions. Each of them gets to create their own release so they will take the same source materials and have all the compressing, mastering, encoding and such done by companies and to specifications that they choose in accordance with the customers they will be selling too. Region encoding is nothing more than a method of stopping one distributor from selling their product in another distributors region, as per the agreements they make. For instance, customers in Japan are willing to pay a higher premium price for their Blu-rays so the distributors often pay extra for better mastering, encoding and special features. In the US the average non-sale price range for a blu-ray is between $20-$25 dollars, with MSRP still set at $39.99 for the most part. Stores that sell them for less than that are usually getting a rebate from the distributor, who may or may not be the studio that actually created the content. The US markets lower price expectation forces the distributors to adjust down the list to hit the desired consumer price point. For instance, using a DD 5.1 as opposed to a DD-THD or DTS-HDMA track will reduce the audio file size, allowing for a lower capacity disk to be used.Smaller discs are cheaper and take less time to press, speeding up production and saving even more money. You also lower costs because you are not creating separate audio masters for your Blu-Ray and DVD releases. Not all distributors do this. For example, Criterion consistently produces some of the best blu-ray releases of films bother in terms of their technical output and supplemental content. However, most Criterion discs retail for anywhere between $28 - $40 dollars depending on where you look and if Criterion is having a sale. Criterion is very film maker friendly and will often invite the directors, producers, DP's and such to participate in the mastering and production of their material, attempting to ensure that the quality of the outcome is sufficient to please the original content creators. Very few distributors do this, usually putting production of this material into the hands of their home video division who makes choices based on their project cost targets and the dictates from their parent companies. This is one of the reasons we tend to get Directors Cut releases down the road. In these instances, for whatever reason, the original film makers have been invited to participate in a re-release of the material that will often include adjustments to visual or audio content that puts the releases quality more in line with the original productions intentions for the final output. Thank you. I'd say that if all of this is 100% accurate, then this definitively answers the question. It's sad, but it makes sense. Thanks to this thread though, I will forever be suspicious of the actual audio quality all of my DVD movies and what it COULD it have been. lol In a perfect world we would get raw video content and uncompressed PCM multi-channel audio that would leave the quality of the output completely left up to the quality of the master materials. There was talk some time back that the industry might be pushing towards 4 layers discs with much higher capacity of up to 128GB. This talk started back in 2010 at least. The discs were supposed to be compatible with current blu-ray players meanign you would not have to upgrade your player. This was all pointing the way to 4K releases but the advantage of using these with standard blu-rays is that you would need far less compression, if any, to get program material onto the disc. This would serve to greatly increase the fidelity pf the presentation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I thought that was one of the advantages they touted when Bluray (and HDDVD) was first introduced. More disc capacity which could (would??) be used to support better audio and video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violetgrey Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I thought that was one of the advantages they touted when Bluray (and HDDVD) was first introduced. More disc capacity which could (would??) be used to support better audio and video. It very much does relative to the formats that were available at the time. A dual layer DVD has 9GB of storage vs a dual layer Blu-Ray's 50GB. So there is a substantial uptick in available space. However storage is not unlimited and the more storage you devote to audio and video the less you have for anything else. For some people that's OK, for others a disc is being wasted if ther special features are not there. And then there is just the base difference in file size between SD and HD content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 We are the leading developed Nation in the world? Maybe? kinda? sometimes? every once in a while! Less and less all the time since we abandoned national efforts like the SCSC to the Europeans, space to the Russians and Chinese, robotics to Japan, etc. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoCables Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 We are the leading developed Nation in the world? Maybe? kinda? sometimes? every once in a while! Less and less all the time since we abandoned national efforts like the SCSC to the Europeans, space to the Russians and Chinese, robotics to Japan, etc. Dave Well, we have to stick to what we're good at! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I dunno, TwoCables...McDonalds has been losing business and Walmart stock is down, too. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoCables Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) I dunno, TwoCables...McDonalds has been losing business and Walmart stock is down, too. Dave We're probably just getting smarter. Like, maybe people are choosing healthier foods and maybe people are realizing that Wal-Mart doesn't really deserve any support. Edited March 12, 2015 by TwoCables Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Like, maybe people are choosing healthier foods Fer shure down here...fajitas and beer. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 to specifications that they choose in accordance with the customers they will be selling to. ... In accordance with the cusomers they THINK they will be selling to ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Americans have become susceptible to mediocrity. And the world knows it. You have hit the proverbial nail on the head. I don't agree. Hundai and Kia, both Korean companies responded to lackluster sales in the USA by improving quality. As it turned out, what was good enough in Korea, wasn't good enough for the USA. This tells us that our standards are higher than Korea, which may not say much, so let's look at domestic automaker Ford for instance. Japanese competitors began offering higher and higher quality, less planned obsolescence, and superior engineering. When US consumers realized they were getting more value, and less depreciation to boot, they bought less and less Fords. Ford responded by making cars more reliable, higher quality, better engineering, and higher value than the Japanese counterparts. As late as the 80's, a car with 50,000 miles was ready for a junk yard while their Japanese counterparts were just breaking in. I think it's about perception of value. If that is challenged, the USA, which is roughly a third of the world's economy, speaks pretty loudly. I think it's about Educating them, which is a tough thing to do. There is a lot of competition for their attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoCables Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Like, maybe people are choosing healthier foods Fer shure down here...fajitas and beer. Dave Hey, that rhymes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoCables Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Americans have become susceptible to mediocrity. And the world knows it. You have hit the proverbial nail on the head. I don't agree. Hundai and Kia, both Korean companies responded to lackluster sales in the USA by improving quality. As it turned out, what was good enough in Korea, wasn't good enough for the USA. This tells us that our standards are higher than Korea, which may not say much, so let's look at domestic automaker Ford for instance. Japanese competitors began offering higher and higher quality, less planned obsolescence, and superior engineering. When US consumers realized they were getting more value, and less depreciation to boot, they bought less and less Fords. Ford responded by making cars more reliable, higher quality, better engineering, and higher value than the Japanese counterparts. As late as the 80's, a car with 50,000 miles was ready for a junk yard while their Japanese counterparts were just breaking in. I think it's about perception of value. If that is challenged, the USA, which is roughly a third of the world's economy, speaks pretty loudly. I think it's about Educating them, which is a tough thing to do. There is a lot of competition for their attention. A car is different though because it's extremely tangible. Just about anyone can easily tell the difference between low and high quality cars, especially after driving them, and just about ANYONE would buy a better car if they could afford it because they know that it's worth it. I have yet to meet someone who owns a crappy car who doesn't wish that they could have a better one. Don't get me wrong; I know that there are many people who refuse to buy a better one for various reasons (and some of those reasons are quite logical and sensible), but I'm talking about the majority here. I can't think of anyone in my world who wouldn't jump at the chance to have a better car. The thing with audio and video media though is (especially audio), the industry knows that the vast majority of us (Americans) can't tell a difference between the compressed and lossy garbage we're being fed and the awesome lossless stuff that we COULD have. The other problem is, the vast majority of us don't care or don't know any better and feel that it's not worth paying more for media that has higher quality audio and/or video. Those who don't know any better probably wouldn't even care if were shown the differences, provided that they could even be convinced that there are differences to be shown to them (and also if they could be convinced that it's worth their time to have those differences shown to them). So, some of them don't even WANT to know better because they simply don't care. To them, the lossy quality that we have today is good enough. To me, it's not. I'd MUCH rather have 100% lossless audio and video. I'm tired of things like the results of compression. Y'know? Most people don't care though, and that's the problem. Those who DO care make up an extremely small percentage of the population. Ask any random person on the street or on the internet if they know or care what quality their MP3s are in (but don't ask on specialized forums like this though). Ask them if they even know or care that there are better options than MP3s (like FLAC). Ask any random person if they know or care what quality their digital movies are in. I mean, the typical person here in the 'States just doesn't care about things like this, and most of them will even tell you that there aren't any discernible differences worth caring about, or that the differences aren't big enough to care about. Thus, we have these inferior Blu-rays, and thus the most common audio file format is MP3. I know that there are other reasons for MP3s being the most common, but I'm talking about quality, not file size and compatibility. I can go even further. Take YouTube, for example: I'm the only one in my family (this is including all of my relatives) who doesn't allow a YouTube video to play until I choose the highest resolution available. I seriously can't watch a YouTube video (or any internet video for that matter) until I make sure I'm using the highest resolution available. In addition to that, if 1080p or higher is available, then I always go full-screen to appreciate and enjoy it more. I also change some of my audio settings in Windows in order to maximize the sound quality. I even change my monitor to more appropriate settings for the video! Most people wouldn't understand this or couldn't possibly care less. Most people will just click the video and watch it because that's all they want to do; watch it. So do I, but I also want to get the best quality sound and video possible, even if it's an extremely short video! I have learned the hard way that, when I play a YouTube video for a family member, I need to just click it and let it play without doing anything else because if I do anything else, then they lose their patience. They don't even care if I go full-screen at 360p or 480p because all they want to do is watch the video. All they care about is that they can understand what they're watching and hearing. Even with my DVD movies and concerts, (I haven't upgraded to Blu-ray yet), I always go to the part of the menu where I can change the audio settings, especially if DTS is available. If it's new to me, then I will even preview the movie or concert with each of the available audio tracks to find the best results so that I know which one to choose each time I watch it. You might be thinking, "but aren't you worried about spoiling new movies?" Nope. For a new movie, I just watch it until there are sound effects that I can tell would be good to use for judging the different available audio tracks. Then, I switch and play that section again to hear the differences and I go with the best results and then continue the movie knowing that I'm getting the best audio experience possible. If it's close enough to the beginning of the movie, I'll even start it over! Then, just like with YouTube, I will also adjust my monitor and sound settings in very specific ways for the best audio and video experience possible. To most people, all of this is a huge waste of time because to them, the end results aren't worth it because the differences aren't big enough for them to justify spending all that time and energy on it. Again, all they care about is being able to see and hear their media. As long as they can understand everything, they don't care. I'm sure that I could continue going on and on and on like this (which I know I'm already doing), but I guess the point is pretty clear: the reason why we have these inferior Blu-rays is, the vast majority of people either don't care or don't know any better (or don't want to care or know better). They would even feel ripped off if they were charged more simply because the quality of the audio and video was as high as possible. Do you remember the screenshot that MetropolisLakeOutfitters posted a few days ago from Blu-ray.com? The price in Yen for the Japanese version of the Metallica Blu-ray was about $30 in USD. The U.S. version was half that, at about $15. How many Metallica fans in the U.S. would pay $30 for that Blu-ray just because the audio and video quality are superior? They'd feel ripped off because they aren't getting more content for their money; they're just getting higher quality audio and video! For them to feel that it's worth paying more, they'd have to have something very tangible, such as more special features or extra merchandise in the box - or both! Only a very small percentage of them would feel that it's worth paying twice as much just for higher quality audio and video (with the exact same Blu-ray contents and exact same BOX contents). So, it's just a lack of demand, caused by a wide range of different things. The funny thing is, many of these people who don't care are still willing to pay a premium for HD broadcast TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Even with my DVD movies and concerts, (I haven't upgraded to Blu-ray yet) After everything you wrote about the lengths you go to for good audio and video, this really surprises me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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