Mallette Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 Typically done at a race track, these classes consist of classroom time where the basics are explained, then hands-on sessions on a parking lot or skidpad that has been flooded. Fine for the rich... Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Typically done at a race track, these classes consist of classroom time where the basics are explained, then hands-on sessions on a parking lot or skidpad that has been flooded. Fine for the rich... Dave I've seen classes for $300. Cheaper than car repairs, funerals, or autonomous cars. And it can be done now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) The fact that we can't even pass legislation to lock out drunk drivers ought to be some indication as to why mandated autonomous cars is a dream. Dream for the few, but a nightmare for majority. Why would keeping drunks off the road be a nightmare for the majority? Well Mark, as I understood your comment, and as you know, I've never been one of those extreme types, particularly the kind who would throw away an entire barrel of fruit, just because less than 1% is bruised or spoiled. Call me crazy, but I just don't believe on trampling the rights and privileges of others because there exist a handful of nut jobs. In other words, drunk drivers are not, IMHO, even a remotely valid reason to support a Government Mandate that would force autonomous vehicles on everyone. I think there are much simpler, less expensive, less invasive, less inconveniencing methods (for the majority) to handle this problem; I don't believe in shoving a stick up everybody's arse, because it makes you, Dave and a handful of other bored and/or non-attentive drivers feel safe on the road. Edited March 30, 2015 by Gilbert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) an automated transport might be quite a wish. They already exist. They've been around for decades.... but they're area specific and built for mass transportation. Edited March 30, 2015 by Gilbert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) I have come to believe that autonomous vehicles and stuff like the parking assist feature are popular ideas which are coverups for incompetent or impaired drivers. Well there yea go..... "BINGO". They're selling gimmick's for precisely those types of drivers. Some manufacturers have concluded that there exists enough of these people, that they could invest the R&D and turn a profit by coming up with gimmicks...... and wouldn't you know it, some people (not going to name aaaannny names) actually purchased and plan to purchase them for that specific reason/gimmick. SOLD!!!, got another one. Fear and Safety have always been good selling strategies. Edited March 30, 2015 by Gilbert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 Fear and Safety have always been good selling strategies. Agreed. It will sell a LOT. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 What car parallel parks faster than a competent human? Just going on the say so of my FiL.... So what vehicles are they? Where do I go get one? What are the performance metrics? If I were touting an automated system as being much better, then I certainly wouldn't be comparing it to the ignorant "average public". You keep citing examples of how uneducated American drivers are, but there is a solution to that today. Examples of better education exist in places like Germany where they drive faster and have way lower accident rates. I think you should compare your collision ridden automated parallel parking system to an average German driver....even then, if a human can demonstrate doing it better, then I would maintain that is a skill learnable by anyone fit for driving. If not, then I'd argue they're not fit for driving But seriously....parallel parking is almost a closed system. The fact that automated systems crash while parking is quite telling to me of the limitations. Just imagine that level of accuracy at high velocity with dozens more variables to consider....they can't even handle the known variables yet of a very simple design problem. Maybe I'm comparing against the worst of the automated systems? You have but to name an automated system that outperforms a human. Citing the general opinions of a friend doesn't help me go find that vehicle and draw my own conclusions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 Citing the general opinions of a friend doesn't help me go find that vehicle and draw my own conclusions. Mike, I am not out to prove anything here and I am perfectly happy with the word of my FiL. The PAW was talking to MiL yesterday so I took the opportunity to ask FiL. He said the totally hands free system he spoke of Christmas was as yet unreleased but he tested a pre-production final version. He didn't want me to mention from whom. He's tested units that are available now from Audi, Mercedes, and Ford. The cheapest is on the Ford Fusion at 400.00 option. Not sure which, but they require manual use of the accelerator or brake, though will brake anyway if you don't when signaled. He said average time was about 25 to 30 seconds and spacing/alignment outstanding. I've little interest in debate here. These systems of all types will prove themselves in time. In fact, I've attached a look from an insurance company, and not just any insurance company but Lloyd's. It's over a year old but still pretty accurate and balanced overall. All involved here will find something to like except the "It'll never happen" folks. Also, a pretty balanced link to a Telegraph article that's more recent, and also balanced IMHO. Dave autonomous vehicles final.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 And that since we are unable to even get that, then how could Dave expect we could ever mandate full automated cars. Same way we mandate at least two people in an HOV lane. Lots of grousing about that, but it's still enforced. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) Not really. What I think is that individual drivers will be allowed in HOV lanes with autonomous vehicles. That alone will encourage sales in a big way in places like Houston. Texas is very much a "one man, one horse" place and while most will put up with being barred from the HOV lane if they have to carpool they'll happily pay the price for an AV to get that privilege. "Mandate" comes in a variety of forms. Dave Edited March 30, 2015 by Mallette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Citing the general opinions of a friend doesn't help me go find that vehicle and draw my own conclusions. ...He said the totally hands free system he spoke of Christmas was as yet unreleased but he tested a pre-production final version... So it doesn't exist yet in the public domain.... I wonder why they would require manual use of the brake/gas pedal? Hmmmm.... Getting into the minutia of parallel parking is missing my point anyway. That's such a trivial task compared to the requirements of driving autonomously on a road with other human drivers and all the other random variables (like pedestrians, construction, weather, road hazards, etc...) Btw, I'm not saying autonomous won't happen. It's just going to be very very different than what people are imagining. It isn't going to be this super efficient super fast system, and it's going to require "controlled lanes" for lack of a better title/description. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Is it safe to assume you own a firearm for self protection? Fear and Safety have always been good selling strategies. Agreed. It will sell a LOT. Dave Please allow me to clarify,..... Fear, Convenience, and a feeling of Safety (real or perceived) have always been good selling strategies. Edited March 30, 2015 by Gilbert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I guess you didn't understand my posts. I did NOT suggest drunk drivers were a "valid reason to support a Government Mandate that would force autonomous vehicles on everyone." I have no idea how you got that. My apologies, it happens with this type of environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 Btw, I'm not saying autonomous won't happen. Mike, did you miss the video Travis posted? It has ALREADY happened. An empty drivers seat is full autonomy unless you want to change the definition. I think they were nutzoid, but there it is... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 Fear, Convenience, and a feeling of Safety (real or perceived) have always been good selling strategies. I got that, Gil. That's why I want one... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Fear, Convenience, and a feeling of Safety (real or perceived) have always been good selling strategies. I got that, Gil. That's why I want one... Dave If we're still alive, please let me know when you get one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 I'm guessing 4 years for me, as I won't need a car until about then. Given most of what I want most is already available I suspect I'll be able to cruise the freeways without hands by then quite comfortably and well within my price range. I could certainly afford that Ford Fusion with adaptive cruise, braking, and lane control now and that is all the basics. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) An empty drivers seat is full autonomy unless you want to change the definition. Please provide the "Dave" definition because as I already posted repeatedly, your definition doesn't correspond to ANYONE's definition. My 76 Fiat Spider was fully autonomous if we go with your definition. PS: All this discussion on drunk drivers is rather pointless. People texting cause more accidents but haven't become pariahs yet. We can virtually eliminate drunk driving without a single mandated assisted device, but we don't want to do so - the economy would suffer. Edited March 31, 2015 by Autarchist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivervalleymgb Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) I skimmed most of this and the main reason we will love AV's was touched on but not directly addressed: In twenty or less years, we will have AV's because we won't need someone to take the friggin' car keys away from us because we are endangering others! And, we can keep some independence in our lives instead of being packed off to assisted living. Edited March 31, 2015 by Rivervalleymgb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Btw, I'm not saying autonomous won't happen. Mike, did you miss the video Travis posted? It has ALREADY happened. An empty drivers seat is full autonomy unless you want to change the definition. I think they were nutzoid, but there it is... Dave I don't agree that was autonomy, but whatever. If that's your idea of game changing autonomous driving then I'm not interested for both safety and efficiency reasons. Every Freshman electrical engineer at UIUC builds a car with more autonomy than what was shown in that video. Adding line following to cruise control is an easy task (my apologies to the engineers that worked hard to make it happen). I certainly wouldn't want those cars on the road anywhere near where children were playing and might run into the road chasing after a ball. Yes, I know, it's growing pains and you gotta start somewhere. It just won't be as amazing as the fanciful marketing images.....certainly not for a very long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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