Mallette Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 Under Dave's definition, "fully autonomous" cars are already on the road. No, no, no. Not "Dave's" definition. Oxford dictionary. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 For this thing to take off the way you would like, a manufacturer has to be able to build one system that is good in all 50 states. But, to my knowledge, existing systems are already good in all 50 for the reasons you state. There are no laws because there have been no degrees of autonomy. There are laws. Several states have already passed laws regulating autonomous cars and the Federal government issued an advisory back in 2013. "Self-driving vehicle technology is not yet at the stage of sophistication or demonstrated safety capability that it should be authorized for use by members of the public for general driving purposes." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) Under Dave's definition, "fully autonomous" cars are already on the road. No, no, no. Not "Dave's" definition. Oxford dictionary. Dave Incorrect. Oxford provides a general definition for autonomous; you misinterpret that as well. If you understood the definition, you would know that your assertion about autonomous cars is faulty. Given we are discussing a particular topic, words have a specific and not general meaning, you simply choose to ignore said definitions. In any case, Gilbert better put some legalese around that bet lest you claim fully autonomous cars have existed for decades - and according to your understanding of the definition they have. Edited April 1, 2015 by Autarchist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) Dupe. Edited April 1, 2015 by Autarchist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 "Freedom from external control or influence; independence" You dispute that if there is no driver in the seat this definition doesn't fit? Serious stretch... "Self-driving vehicle technology is not yet at the stage of sophistication or demonstrated safety capability that it should be authorized for use by members of the public for general driving purposes." That is not a law. If it is, Delphi just broke it. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted April 1, 2015 Moderators Share Posted April 1, 2015 For this thing to take off the way you would like, a manufacturer has to be able to build one system that is good in all 50 states. But, to my knowledge, existing systems are already good in all 50 for the reasons you state. There are no laws because there have been no degrees of autonomy. There are laws. Several states have already passed laws regulating autonomous cars and the Federal government issued an advisory back in 2013. "Self-driving vehicle technology is not yet at the stage of sophistication or demonstrated safety capability that it should be authorized for use by members of the public for general driving purposes." Four state, Michigan, CA, NV and FL have adopted legislation for limited testing and use. About 15 or so have rejected it, for now, Texas being one, and others have mot considered it. The big question is in t he states where there in nothing on the books, is it legal to operate there? There is no federal law to prevent it, just the policy statement from DOT you mentioned in 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 I wasn't aware of the Texas law. You have the text? I'd be interested... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 In the year 2525..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted April 1, 2015 Moderators Share Posted April 1, 2015 I wasn't aware of the Texas law. You have the text? I'd be interested... Dave A bill got filed last week for this session by Rodney Ellis. His bill would require special DPS license with designation for AV. http://tti.tamu.edu/policy/texas-tribune-points-to-tti-research/ Last session it was HB 2932 (2013), (we are every two years, odd numbered years and session ends in August unless recalled by Governor). Links to that bill which never went anywhere. https://legiscan.com/TX/bill/HB2932/2013 You can sign up to track bills for free to see where they go. However, it is a free for all at the end of the session and anything can happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted April 1, 2015 Moderators Share Posted April 1, 2015 Here is the text of the current bill. Distinguishing autonomous from driver assistance devices, provides for driver's license, and insurance. Also provides only TXDot and manufacturers can operate them for testing, and insurance requirements. Also provides that minimum standards will be developed. https://legiscan.com/TX/text/SB1167/2015This is where politics intersects with technology. Automakers will want Congress to step in and create legislation on autonomous vehicles that provides that US DOT, specifically Highway Safety Administration be the one that creates standards so that they know the money spent to develop a production autonomous vehicle will be legal in all 50 states. Texas, like CA, NV, etc., wants to be able to generate business by allowing companies to develop and test here.there.They also seek to clarify that technology such as adaptive cruise isn't autonomous. The ability to change a lane or turn at an intersection would be. UT got 20 million last year for research on how to handle for autonomous vehicles, including the ability to bid for priority. If traffic is the concern you never want to see that make the light of day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 In the year 2525..... If man is still alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted April 1, 2015 Moderators Share Posted April 1, 2015 For this thing to take off the way you would like, a manufacturer has to be able to build one system that is good in all 50 states. But, to my knowledge, existing systems are already good in all 50 for the reasons you state. There are no laws because there have been no degrees of autonomy. We are both just crystal balling, but I still think it will start at the local level first and move out. I also believe there will be a lot of confusion until it is sorted out. Dave Existing systems are, they require continuous drivet monitoring. This is why Google car wad developed in Nevada, they got NV to adopt legislation to allow development and testing. No state currently allows a vehicle to operate on its own. Your vision of a car going and parking itself after it drops you off at the office, or sitting in back seat while it drives you, will require legislation. The technology obviously exists, but laws only allow for development and testing currently. One was demonstrated in Austin, but was sponsored by TXDot. That is how thesr demos are happening, or they put someone behind the wheel in states that will not give a temporary waiver or permit. some permiting is expensive because they literally close off highway to othet traffic and the reason why in some videos it is only vehicle on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted April 1, 2015 Moderators Share Posted April 1, 2015 So how is that Steak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 Agreed. But that is a REQUIREMENT and nobody can be forced to do it. I certainly would monitor very, very carefully for a long time before being fully comfortable. But no matter what is "required" once people have 10k miles without incident they are going to relax. So how is that Steak? I'm disappointed. Didn't hear from him. I suppose he was off on business at dark thirty and I didn't catch the message until today. PM'd hime without a response. Wish he'd PM'd a cell number. Oh well. Maybe he does business down here from time to time. I am about a minute off the main drag from Pasadena to Galveston. I'd really like to yow with him. I know that he, and hopefully all you guys, know none of this type of discussion changes my feelings of friendship for forum members. Disagreement isn't disrespect. Rather than change others, what I do is look harder at my own position. That's a GOOD thing! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 Heard from Gil. Won't quote him and will leave it to him to post as he sees fit, and while I don't think he changed his mind he certainly understood why a Houstonite would yearn to turn over control to a machine. No matter how much you like manual driving if you like it in Houston you are a masochist. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 In any case, Gilbert better put some legalese around that bet lest you claim fully autonomous cars have existed for decades - and according to your understanding of the definition they have. Nice to have a Lawyer watching my back...... I hope you're not charging me for that? And for clarification, my understanding of an autonomous vehicle is people being full-time passengers only. Anything short of that is a car with driver aides. Some drivers' aides like Lane Departure warning, Radar Cruise Control, Self-Breaking, Dynamic Stability Control, Anti-Skid Breaking, etc. etc., have their place in everybody's car, I don't think anyone will deny that. But full time Autonomous in everybody's car, I hope never finds the light of day..... not yet. Even after my trip to Houston yesterday. FWIW, I got back home from Houston late last night around 1am. The traffic in Houston sucked, as bad and almost worse than Califa's dreaded LA area rush hour traffic. Something bad happened on the Katy Freeway, and I got a ticket for being on a toll road w/o a toll pass, I don't know how in the hell I got on the toll road, but when I realized I was on it, I prayed for no cops...... Then over a pass, and there they were, the motorcycle cops, they were dive bombing us in assembly line fashion, they were thick, like mosquitos in one of Louisiana's narliest swamps. As I told Dave in a PM, I was honestly wishing I had an autonomous car to drive me through that fk'ing nightmare. That would have at least allowed me to review some paper work, while being chauffeured to the plant. An on-off switch would be perfect in my idea of an autonomous car, 99.9% of the time it would be turned off, unless I drove up to Dave and Jeff's neck of the woods, or God forbid, Los Angeles or San Francisco areas..... in which case it would be on full autopilot. That Houston traffic sucked yesterday morning, Dallas's Loop 635 or even IH35 E or W has never been that bad, not even at rush hour. I didn't see a wreck, so I suspect it was already cleaned up by the time I got there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 Well, at least you guys should believe that I am NOT overstating the issues of driving in Houston. In my case, I get to do it every day. Any there are millions more of us in LA, New York, DFW, Atlanta, Austin...just waiting to turn on the automation and relax. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Well, at least you guys should believe that I am NOT overstating the issues of driving in Houston. In my case, I get to do it every day. Any there are millions more of us in LA, New York, DFW, Atlanta, Austin...just waiting to turn on the automation and relax. Dave Boston, NY, NJ, DC, Maryland, they all suck when you're driving in the metro areas. Houston yesterday was especially bad, and this was the first time I timed it to be there during the morning rush hour..... I won't be doing that again anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 You should move to Alabama Dave. Our governor would fix your problems quickly with a bold and fair flick of the wrist. As he now proposes to fix the states money woes. He came up with what he called a Bold, BOLD I tell ya, and Fair plan to raise revenue for the state. But in his words the plan had to be Bold comma Bold and Fair. So in a state whose property taxes are near the lowest in the nation (doubled they would be around the middle of the 50 states) he decides the best approach (one that is Bold & Fair) is to raise taxes on automobile purchases and cigarette smokers. Slap yo' mama! Man, that's bold. And fair. Now people will drive their old car to the grocery store and still pay taxes on their groceries but not on cigarettes because hey! they quit smoking when taxes on cigarettes tripled. Eventually everyone's old car will quit running and the roadways will be abandoned. This could work in Taxes too! Keith BTW, I hate chicken schit politicians. Identify and select limited groups to tax so as to not offend so many that subsequent elections are lost. It doesn't matter if it actually works or not. Can, meet foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-50-worst-commutes-in-america/ss-AAakiJv#image=51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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