Paducah Home Theater Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) Xmax of 14 and Xmech of 25. The UM 18 and SI HT have a higher Xmax and Xmech. Stereo integrity yeah. I'm not sure xmech is that much more on ultimaxes. Xmech is supposed to be one way. Ultimaxes brag about over 2" cone travel but xmech is half of whatever this secret number is. 25 mm xmech on the acoustic elegance is 50 mm peak to peak which is right at 2". Technically just 1 more mm would allow dayton to make their "over 2 inches of cone travel" claim. They won't publish this number though. SI is supposedly 43. If an ultimax had anywhere near that they'd be saying over 3" of cone travel, not 2. Edited November 19, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Xmax of 14 and Xmech of 25. The UM 18 and SI HT have a higher Xmax and Xmech. You are looking for mid bass slam, consider a couple of mid bass modules. That's a woofer, not a subwoofer. Look at the surround. It's more of a pro style driver. It should have plenty of slam but not dig super low like a subwoofer. I couldn't find the t/s parameters. I was curious as to the fs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 Xmax of 14 and Xmech of 25. The UM 18 and SI HT have a higher Xmax and Xmech. You are looking for mid bass slam, consider a couple of mid bass modules. That's a woofer, not a subwoofer. Look at the surround. It's more of a pro style driver. It should have plenty of slam but not dig super low like a subwoofer. I couldn't find the t/s parameters. I was curious as to the fs. It's like 29. I was thinking 2-4 of them up front then 1-2 subsonic monsters in the rear. This guy sure likes doing that. Http://aespeakers.com/dual-ae-td18h-mains-and-td15m-center-channel-by-lukeamdman/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) Ricci at database.com tested the UM 18 to be good to around 28 Xmas. When interpreting Xmax there are several different way to get the number so, that has to be taken into account. Most of the Dayton drivers that I have seen all have better performance than the manufacture's spec. The UM 18's are stronger than my SI HT 18's. If setup right and enough wooferage, either of these will shake the filling out you teeth, lol. I was at a gtg this past weekend and 4 SI 18's Stonehammers delivered 129 db at 18 ft. in a 2700 cu ft space in my buddy's HT. We used ear protection due to the volume and pressure in the room. Setup is key to getting good bass. I have hit the mid 130 db's in my room at the MLP. I never run things that loud without headphone ear protection. Mark Seaton is using the UM 18 in one of his new subs. He is all about high performance. Edited November 20, 2015 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) Double post. Edited November 20, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post/the-terraform-d18-limited-run-dual-18-11hz-tuned-ported-subwoofer-7043903 I don't see how he tuned those things to 11 hz. Ultimaxes are supposed to have 12 cubic feet for 15 hz, add ports and it's 15. 30 cubic feet for 15 hz. 11 should be bigger but somehow it's smaller? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 These guys are wizard at sub design and DSP. Seaton usually picks out good parts to match his subs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cradeldorf Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) Follow a good design and you won't have to worry about any of those things. Where's the fun in that? I like learning about the science as much or more than listening to it. That's why I geek out with surge protectors. That gets expensive real fast. Especially when what you learned is that your idea is not ideal... :/ Edited November 20, 2015 by cradeldorf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) That gets expensive real fast. Especially when what you learned is that your idea is not ideal... :/ It's just wood, they'll make more. The time involved though, not so much, unfortunately. Realistically the only major problems I've had with ports is when there are multiple drivers as well as multiple ports. I think there are some extra rules to follow but I'm not sure what they are. I did in fact have projects that didn't turn out as expected. The biggest disappointment here is a Gallien Krueger NEO 412 bass guitar clone. I made this thing except with better/thicker materials: http://www.gallien-krueger.com/neo-412-specs They have updated it so it's ported differently but when I copied the old design with two round ports, I thought I tuned it right according to the math, but I had zero output from the ports. Nothing. Made absolutely zero sense to me. I had 700 watts powering four Eminence pro woofers that were shaking HARD. Zero port output. The new design is a single triangle port, seems to be a popular thing nowadays, probably cheaper to build. Bass guitar cabinets, B&C approved designs, pro cinema, lots of triangle ports out there. Edited November 20, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 but I had zero output from the ports. Nothing. How did you come to that conclusion? Was it at all frequencies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) but I had zero output from the ports. Nothing. How did you come to that conclusion? Was it at all frequencies? Stuck my ear to the ports and played some scales on my bass guitar. Seems like sooner or later you'd hit a note where some air and/or bass would come out of the holes. I don't know what I did wrong. Edited November 20, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Odd, sounds like a design issue. You typically port for added volume at a certain frequency but even when you're not at that particular frequency you should still be able to hear the back wave off the driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) Odd, sounds like a design issue. You typically port for added volume at a certain frequency but even when you're not at that particular frequency you should still be able to hear the back wave off the driver. The strange thing was that it was a clone. It was Gallien Krueger's tweeter, at least what should have been the same woofers, identical box size, identical port placement, identical port diameter. Only thing in question was port length but I'm pretty sure it was the same as theirs, plus I checked the math and thought it was right. Only thing that was purposely different was box shape, they have 45 degree angles on the top and bottom back that seemed unnecessary if the box size was right. I had no way of knowing how their inside looked though, their braces and dampening material were likely different. Edited November 20, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Xmax of 14 and Xmech of 25. The UM 18 and SI HT have a higher Xmax and Xmech. You are looking for mid bass slam, consider a couple of mid bass modules. That's a woofer, not a subwoofer. Look at the surround. It's more of a pro style driver. It should have plenty of slam but not dig super low like a subwoofer. I couldn't find the t/s parameters. I was curious as to the fs. kpt-884 has same surround and its a pro style sub. Flat to 18hz in my room. It was a monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 kpt-884 has same surround and its a pro style sub. Flat to 18hz in my room. It was a monster. The enclosure is good to 27Hz (+ - 3dB) with that driver. You're experiencing room gain. A subwoofer driver with more x-max in that big of a box could go much lower. I won't argue the monster part! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 kpt-884 has same surround and its a pro style sub. Flat to 18hz in my room. It was a monster. The enclosure is good to 27Hz (+ - 3dB) with that driver. You're experiencing room gain. A subwoofer driver with more x-max in that big of a box could go much lower. I won't argue the monster part! just saying the pro style drivers can deliver serious bass. The ae 18's in question I've heard four in huge enclosures and they could easily smoke my subwoofer setup from 15hz up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 just saying the pro style drivers can deliver serious bass. Agreed. Pro drivers can take a bunch of power and get really loud. These cabinets I built to give bottom end to my KP-250's and even outside could hurt you. Each one ran off of one leg of an EP-4000. My kitchen lights would dim to the beat when you cranked them up. They got the police called out to my house on more than one occasion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Driver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) I've mentioned this before in the past... everybody always talks about busting drywall, but I've actually done it in a band practice. Six ported Yamaha 18's with 4,000 watts. Busted the drywall at the seams and bugs and drywall dust started to fall out of the ceiling. This was with a 5 string custom bass whose root note was probably 31 hz and the pickups did a good job of delivering it. We also fed the kick drums through this setup, it was just gut wrenching. Pro audio subs are no joke. I miss that sound myself. Keep wondering if some of those up front would work, then supplement with subsonic ported ones in the back if need be. I have been looking at B&C's but thought the AE's might be a good compromise between the two styles. Edited November 20, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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