Denon AVR 4311 issues with KLF30's

[robbiey60]

 

Your equipment is different but you also have to take into consideration room acoustics plays a HUGE role in how a speaker will perform.

 

The KLF30's should still be able to function in a similar fashion. There is essentially no movement of the woofers on the KLF's. Feeling for air moving out of the ports results in nearly nill. I get that room accoustics will produce a different sound, but this is night and day. The system sounds dead........

 

Also, the person that set it up, bi-wired the speakers. Should this matter?

 

Running audessey and flat eq I get minimal movement from my 83s woofers. Stereo and a bump in eq running +6 above reference really gets the woofers moving!

[Coleman]

Bi-wiring 102 db with 1 watt/1 meter speakers hee hee. Not something I would ever do. Switch that Denon to 2 channel Stereo mode and run a house curve. Put jumpers back on and forget about bi-wiring. That Denon alone will flex those woofers. 

[Zen Traveler]

 

 

Although it was mentioned earlier... Did you ever confirm that you have both jumpers attached to the HF & LF speaker connectors. The picture you originally posted shows them bi-wired without the jumpers in place. I've attached a photo of what the jumpers should look like. If you don't have them you will only hear either the HF (mids & tweeter) or the LF (woofers), depending on how you have them connected... in your case it sounds like you have the speaker wires going to the HF set of jacks.

jumpers not required if bi-wiring.

I know that... But it was my understanding that the picture he posted was how they were hooked up before he bought them... When they sounded great at the sellers house.

But based on the description of his problem, he either is missing the jumpers or his bi-wired/amped setup has a problem. And like others have mentioned, he should probably go back to a single wire/amp setup to troubleshoot the problem.

 

 

This is what I'm thinking--He already is only running one set of wires but hasn't replaced the jumpers on the back of the speaker.

[Thrasher]

I also would not be happy with audessey returning a -12db setting, something is not quite right. Are your speakers toed in, in corners, near reflective walls?? All of this needs to be addressed.

 

Yes, they are. Approximately 14-16" away and toed in. And, the picture of the back of the speaker connection is at here at my house. Not the original sellers.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Thrasher

[Max2]

 

I also would not be happy with audessey returning a -12db setting, something is not quite right. Are your speakers toed in, in corners, near reflective walls?? All of this needs to be addressed.

 

Yes, they are. Approximately 14-16" away and toed in. And, the picture of the back of the speaker connection is at here at my house. Not the original sellers.

 

 

 

This has been the norm for me. KLFs, La Scalas, K-horns, all have showed  -12  and my mains are 16 feet from where the mic sets. Heck my C7 center shows -10 which is about 10 feet off of the mic.  I think Audyssey is great for a crude bandaid on a room that is acoustically dire.

 

Try getting the KLF's 8-10 inches form the corner itself Thrasher.  Every room is different, but you may get an improvement getting them tucked a little closer. This is where my KLF's performed the best, but this was on wood floors.

[Zen Traveler]

I missed that pic of the speakers until now so I still think he needs to put the jumpers back in place, run one set of wires and not even run an extensive Audyssey setup--Just a couple of positions and again confirm that Dolby Volume isn't on--That is where my trouble shooting advice is at this point....Wait! I also agree about running the speakers in stereo to confirm the LF drivers are even working. Gotta go.

[Thrasher]

The main issue is, that the woofers aren't even responding but "barely" even moving on bass lines that should be cracking my house foundation. So even if I move them closer to the wall, the woofer isn't going to change it's response.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Thrasher

[Youthman]

When I had my KLF30, they slammed. Something is definitely wrong when (4) 12 inch woofers do not pound

[derrickdj1]

unless I am really at high volume, the woofers on the RF 7's don't move much but, they are loud.  The real question is related to the spl. in the room. Make sure the speakers are set to Large for testing.

[robbiey60]

The main issue is, that the woofers aren't even responding but "barely" even moving on bass lines that should be cracking my house foundation. So even if I move them closer to the wall, the woofer isn't going to change it's response.

Eq some bass and turn off audessey..

[BusaDude]

The main issue is, that the woofers aren't even responding but "barely" even moving on bass lines that should be cracking my house foundation. So even if I move them closer to the wall, the woofer isn't going to change it's response.

 

Here's the thing... you heard the speakers perform at the sellers house, so you know they work and are capable of shaking the hell out of a room. 

 

So by process of elimination, there's something wrong with how you have them setup... some setting in the Denon, Audyssey, the bi-wire connection, who knows? 

 

I don't know if you've tried any of the suggestions that have been posted, but here's my last suggestion.  Unhook everything, the Denon receiver, the Emotiva amp, the RCA connectors, all the speaker wires and then do the following...

 

1) If you don't already have it, download the AVR-4311 owner's manual and have it available for reference.

 

2) Reset the processor in the Denon receiver so that it goes back to the factory default values (see the screen grab from the AVR-4311 owner's manual) and removes/eliminates any current settings.

 

3) After resetting the receiver, attach ONE source... And only ONE source only to the receiver.  Preferably something that can play 2 channel stereo such as a CD or Blu-Ray player.  HDMI is the simplest way to connect, but digital coax or even 2 RCA's (left & right) would be fine as well.

 

4) Put the jumpers back on the KLF-30's and make sure they are screwed down tight.

 

5) Attach ONE set of speaker wires (+ & -) to each speaker.

 

6) Connect the left KLF30 and the right KLF30 to the receiver... so you only have 2 speakers connected to the receiver.  DO NOT CONNECT any other speakers at this point.  And DO NOT CONNECT the subwoofer.

 

7) Power up the AVR-4311, go into the setup and tell it you only have a LEFT and RIGHT speaker connected, with NO SUBWOOFER.  This should cause the AVR to set the speakers to LARGE.  If not, set them to LARGE manually.

 

8) While still in the setup, tell the AVR which input (HDMI, digital or RCA) you have your source connected to... CD, Blu-Ray, etc.

 

9) Exit the setup at this point and do nothing else... no Audyssey, no channel levels, no distances, nothing.

 

10) Put a CD (2 channel stereo only) in the CD/Blu-Ray player and push "play".

 

11) Select the input and turn the volume up and see what happens... It should default to stereo.  But you can choose "Pure Direct" if you want to make sure there is nothing else in the signal path.  If there is nothing wrong with the KLF's you should get everything they are capable of delivering.

 

12) At this point add one speaker at a time... with no Audyssey setup. Just go into the AVR setup and add the speaker. Set it to LARGE.

 

13) Continue adding the speakers in this way until you have all 5 or 7 connected.

 

14) Add the subwoofer last and set the volume control on the sub halfway between Min/Max.  You can adjust it later if needed.  Leave all the other speakers set to LARGE.

 

15) Play a DVD or Blu-Ray and make sure all the channels are producing sound.

 

From here I would go into the AVR setup and set all the speaker distances, crossovers, channels levels and sizes (LARGE/SMALL) manually with a tape measure and sound level meter... based on what sounds good to your ears in your room.  And then listen again.

 

If everything still sounds good, you can proceed with reconnecting the Emotiva amp and doing the amp/pre-amp assignment in the Denon.  If you decide to run Audyssey for it's EQ and room correction, DO IT LAST, after you have reconnected all your sources and verified that things are working correctly.  And as a previous owner of KLF-20's, there is no need to bi-wire the KLF speakers.  Just leave the extra wire out of the equation.

[Youthman]

Nice walk through GP

[robbiey60]

^^THIS

[Thrasher]

I just ran one speaker straight from the Denon and put the Denon in NORMAL mode. That was the best response I have had so far. For some reason, it's not even recognizing the Emotiva it seems. It wasn't over the top crazy bass, but at least it was moving some air...

Edited May 8, 2015 by Thrasher

[Zen Traveler]

Yay!  Seriously, now run Audyssey correctly because that AVR-4311ci should drive those speakers nicely.

[Thrasher]

As a final update, after numerous hours and teaching myself some new swear words, I decided to call Denon. After 10 minutes on the call with tech support, they diagnosed it as having internal hardware failures, possibly from the previous owners improper firmware update process. They suggested sending it to them for repair for roughly $300.... No thanks.

[Zen Traveler]

I dunno...I would be curious what they had you do in 10 to make that diagnosis--sounds fishy to me, but...

 

Here http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1274153-official-denon-avr-4311ci-avr-a100-thread-no-price-talk.html is a place to search or post to see if anyone has had similar problems and the first thing they would have you do if you purchased a used unit would be to do a system reset which I gather Denon CS had you do?

[Thrasher]

Denon tech support said that what had been done on my end in hopes of trying to resolve the problem, were the same things that they would have asked me to do. Thank you everyone on here for your help. Unfortunately, it's getting shipped back to original owner per Paypal.

[derrickdj1]

Denon tech support said that what had been done on my end in hopes of trying to resolve the problem, were the same things that they would have asked me to do. Thank you everyone on here for your help. Unfortunately, it's getting shipped back to original owner per Paypal.

 

That is the best move!