richieb Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 My KHorns have the Dave Harris Fastlane top hat where the mid and tweeter are positioned side-by-side not stacked vertically as on a stock KHorn. I currently have the tweeter to the inside position on both speakers, mid horn to the outside. Do you think it makes a darn bit of difference? I do know that when I owned Magneplaners the tweeter section was to be on the inside. Apples and oranges I know but would that theory apply? I do know moving these beasts the 22 feet to opposite sides of the room is always a ball buster. Fastlane if you happen on this please chime in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) A picture? (...Including the room...?) Edited December 15, 2015 by Chris A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted December 15, 2015 Author Share Posted December 15, 2015 A picture is tough as i dont think the grills come off? Maybe picture this Chris - looking the KHorn in its corner, Fastlane elliptical is positioned in the left side of the top hat with the tweeter next to the righ. OR - the Fastlane site shows these same speakers being restored under KHorn restoration. I'll try pics in some form or another. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I'm thinking the the stuff around the speakers and the room itself (i.e., the "system view", if you will) are much more important considerations for sound quality than just which side the tweeters/midranges are located in the absence of that other more important information. A picture will help greatly in that regard. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted December 15, 2015 Author Share Posted December 15, 2015 How about this - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I have always wondered about the inside/out syndrome too. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) With that configuration, the side and front walls are the same distance from the midrange horns, so It doesn't matter much, except for the stereo separation of the 6-10 kHz "brilliance" frequencies for cymbals and other HF percussion instruments: one side is wider than the other. I'd recommend trying out a little absorbent felt or thick fuzzy fabric on the side and front walls right next to the top hat horn mouths (about 6 inches to a foot of width), listening for improvements in the center imaging performance. If you have some really thick felt, you can also try temporarily placing a little on the front panel on the flat baffle portions just outside of the horn mouths as well as the front of the top surface of the top hats, and check the imaging and soundstage focus again. You should hear a definite change in soundstage. [EDIT: This is also called as "baffle step treatment".] The real effect of placing the tweeters or midranges on one side or the other really comes from the early reflections from the adjacent walls. For instance, if your Khorns had false corners and you toed them in less than 45 degrees, then having the midranges on the inside would probably have a greater positive effect on imaging and soundstage. It's the early reflections of midrange frequencies which are the most audible, since high frequencies are attenuated much more strongly by adjacent surfaces and are at relatively greater distances due to the short wavelengths in the tweeter's band. Chris Edited December 15, 2015 by Chris A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) My KHorns have the Dave Harris Fastlane top hat where the mid and tweeter are positioned side-by-side not stacked vertically as on a stock KHorn. I currently have the tweeter to the inside position on both speakers, mid horn to the outside. Do you think it makes a darn bit of difference? I do know that when I owned Magneplaners the tweeter section was to be on the inside. Apples and oranges I know but would that theory apply? I do know moving these beasts the 22 feet to opposite sides of the room is always a ball buster. Fastlane if you happen on this please chime in. I suspect any perceived differences are closely related to the specifics of the space. The simple answer is how does it sound best to you? Is it not possible, and less ball busting, to, at least temporarily, swap only the top hats? Edited December 15, 2015 by DizRotus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I suspect it depends on the size and reflections of the room. Wide room? Wide dispersion = tweeters on outside (or should that be inside?). Also are you aiming the mids or the high range horns at the front or the back of your ears? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious2 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I'd like to know what's behind that grille cloth as maybe just as important as inside or outside tweeter positioning is vertical or horizontal. That question was discussed in this thread but not to any conclusion: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/135968-what-crossover-for-eliptrac-khorns-pics/page-2 My midrange eliptrac horns cross in front as opposed to directly at me or crossing behind. This with no attempt to aim them. That's just how it ends up with the speakers about 17.5 feet apart center to center and me sitting back about 11 feet from the centerline and about 13 feet from each speaker. I suppose I could play around with skewing the top hat a bit in or out by lifting its connecting bolts out of their holes. How can you make a fine distinction like "at the front or the back of your ears"? The vertical tweeters are on the outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) Its most critical to align the tweeter. Edited December 17, 2015 by David H 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Do your tophats have the original tweets? Or one of Dave's Contracs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 It's actually better if the tweeter is centered on top of the midrange horn--as PWK did it and Klipsch still does it on all their loudspeakers that I can recall. Side-by-side is least preferred. Centered under the midrange is the second most acceptable configuration. Time alignment between the tweeter and midrange is critical--about 1/4 inch out of time-alignment is quite audible at those frequencies. I recommend placing the tweeter on top of the loudspeaker mounted in a small baffle so that you move it back and forth to time-align to the midrange driver. You'll hear a big difference when you do, and it costs essentially nothing to try. I think that's as important to state why one configuration is better than another rather than only stating one is "better than the other" without rationale. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I always chime in about now to say YES to this idea. I have a passive crossover, but putting my tweeter in a baffle and aligning it with the mid driver really works and is quite audible when witbin that 1/4 inch. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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