Need Help with LED Lighting Not Turning Completely Off With Dimmer

[Youthman]

I have a Lutron SPS-600 Dimmer Switch that controls the 36' LED strip around my screen

 

 

 

When I turn the dimmer off, it dims the LED stip to almost off but not completely.  Looking online, the Lutron requires more of a load than the LED Strip draws.

 

I purchased this American DJ Supply LED Dummy Load Plug which others said it fixed their same issue.  Didn't work with my setup....in fact, it caused my LED lights to flicker (which is exactly what this device is supposed to stop).  I returned it.

 

 

 

When I first discovered the issue, I plugged a lamp into the same circuit and it was enough to turn off the LED's completely so today, I purchased two night lights and a basic extension cord to see if a small load would work.

 

I connected the LED Strip and these two Night Light's (5 watts each bulb) but that was not enough to turn off the LED completely.

 

 

 

 

I then replaced the (2) 5 watts bulbs with (2) 60 watt candelabra bulbs but that was not enough to turn off the LED completely.

 

 

 

 

So then I plugged a standard lamp with a 60w bulb in and it DID turn off my LED lights completely.

 

 

 

 

Lastly I replaced the 60w bulb with a 15w bulb and it DID turn off my LED lights completely.  HUH?

 

 

 

I'm not sure why but apparently the 120w total candelabra night light load is not the same load as the standard lamp with a 15w bulb load?

 

So my goal is to add some type of load to that plug that is enough to turn off the LED.  The problem with adding a 15w light in a standard lamp is I would need to figure out how to hide the light since it will be behind my screen. 

 

Ideas?

[JJkizak]

I would try another brand of dimmer switch.

JJK

[Youthman]

The dimmer would have to have IR in the back of it because I have 4 Lutron SPS-600 Dimmers and 1 Lutron Maestro Dimmer being controlled by a Lutron Spacer system.  The Spacer Master Controller sends commands through the back of each dimmer's IR sensor.

[derrickdj1]

Maybe just call an electrician and pick his brain a bit.  You may not need to hire him but, it may generate some ideals to pursue.

[Youthman]

I'm currently working with an engineer

[babadono]

LEDs will not dim all the way to off, that's been my experience. That's why all the dimmers I have have an Off/On switch as well. Pretty weird though I have to agree that 120W candelabra bulbs don't turn it off but a regular 15W bulb does. Maybe its got something to do with the resistance of the different filaments when they're cold. What's your engineer say?

[Youthman]

Engineer suggested to try a normal night light with standard switch as the ones I posted earlier have auto light sensor built in

[Youthman]

So I took the engineer's (aka Wakejunkie) suggestion and bought a night light with a regular switch.

 

 

 

 

It's only 4 watts and I just plugged in one while still in the packaging and it wasn't enough to turn them off but the more interesting thing is once they dimmed down, I can't turn the lights back up with the night light plugged in.

 

The package doesn't say if they are LED or Incandescent.

[JJkizak]

Try using different values of resistance Lower than the neon light in series with that circuit only selecting a value that you get sufficient light output but it shuts off properly. Or a very high wattage rheostat you can adjust down to a resistance lower than that of the neon circuit or you will create a lot of smoke. Desperate people must take desperate chances. I just thought I would throw that in to give you confidence. Ask the engineer for a blocking diode circuit too.

JJK

[Youthman]

I'm confident I have no idea what you just said.  

[Youthman]

Wake also suggested one of these.  If that works, I could get a black light bulb.

 

[NBPK402]

22 hours ago, babadono said:

LEDs will not dim all the way to off, that's been my experience. That's why all the dimmers I have have an Off/On switch as well. Pretty weird though I have to agree that 120W candelabra bulbs don't turn it off but a regular 15W bulb does. Maybe its got something to do with the resistance of the different filaments when they're cold. What's your engineer say?

I have to disagree. I use Insteon, and I use the module that was shown in the first post by Youthman, and it turns the LED rope lighting i have off completely. Before I got the modules I also tried light bulbs with zero success.  Since Youthman has had the opposite success... I would suggest putting the light bulb where its light would not be seen if possible, but if he is able to come up with another suggestion that works, I would love to hear it as the modules also have the problem of extending the plug out from the wall.

[mustang guy]

What low voltage transformer and 36' LED rope are you using? The answer to these problems needs to start with the specs/details of those two things. 

 

Here is a resistance calculator for LED's, but you need to know:

• Supply Voltage 
• Voltage Drop Across LED
• Desired LED Current in mA

 

The calculator will return:

• Calculated Limiting Resistor Ω
• Calculated Resistor Wattage

There are more tools available here: LED Information and Technical Data

 

On the deck lights I just installed, I used this device to turn the ropes off: GE 57883 Outdoor Outlet Receiver Module, RF Controls Lights/Appliances. This is like a garage door opener remote control. I don't know if you want to use something like this, but it would certainly work on the high voltage side of the dimmer.

 

[Youthman]

9 hours ago, mustang guy said:

What low voltage transformer and 36' LED rope are you using?

I purchased this for around the screen - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007TMIYOG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

The specs say it is 1.46 watts per foot.  We cut about 3' of excess off from the light so 37 x 1.46 is 54 watts.

 

I have the LED connected to a Lutron SPS-600.  According to this spec sheet, at the bottom of page 81 it says "   **Minimum load 60 W/VA."

 

So from what I can see, I need at least 6 watts additional load which probably explains why a 15 watt bulb was sufficient to turn off the LED completely.

 

Thanks for the suggestion Mustang but I would prefer to have everything working through the Spacer System that I have in place now.  That way I can program up to 4 Lighting Scenes and control it through the Harmony One.  I think it's just a matter of getting the right lighting source back there and being able to hide it so that when it's turned on, it doesn't show through from behind the cabinet.

[NBPK402]

20 hours ago, Youthman said:

 

Here's an idea... Make a small light box with a movie poster, or other item you would like lit up in front, that is lit up when you have the rope lighting on. You could even get an exit light or now playing sign, and light it with the 15w bulb.

[TasDom]

10 minutes ago, ellisr63 said:

Here's an idea... Make a small light box with a movie poster, or other item you would like lit up in front, that is lit up when you have the rope lighting on. You could even get an exit light or now playing sign, and light it with the 15w bulb.

Good idea

[Marvel]

MG has the correct idea, which is to calculate an additional current limiting resistor for the LEDs, which will make the light string  e slightly less bright when full on but thwn be able to shit clear off. There should already be a resistor in the lights, or they wouldn't light at all.

 

Bruce

[NBPK402]

Just now, Marvel said:

MG has the correct idea, which is to calculate an additional current limiting resistor for the LEDs, which will make the light string  e slightly less bright when full on but thwn be able to shit clear off. There should already be a resistor in the lights, or they wouldn't light at all.

 

Brucw

Just a thought...could it be that the plug is plugged in wrong? I am thinking this because I recall something about resistors only being on one leg with LEDs...thinking if it is on the wrong leg it might not turn off as it wouldn't have the resistor on the correct leg. I know very little about electricity, just a thought.

[mustang guy]

On 9/4/2016 at 11:28 PM, Youthman said:

I purchased this for around the screen - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007TMIYOG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

The specs say it is 1.46 watts per foot.  We cut about 3' of excess off from the light so 37 x 1.46 is 54 watts.

 

I have the LED connected to a Lutron SPS-600.  According to this spec sheet, at the bottom of page 81 it says "   **Minimum load 60 W/VA."

 

So from what I can see, I need at least 6 watts additional load which probably explains why a 15 watt bulb was sufficient to turn off the LED completely.

 

Thanks for the suggestion Mustang but I would prefer to have everything working through the Spacer System that I have in place now.  That way I can program up to 4 Lighting Scenes and control it through the Harmony One.  I think it's just a matter of getting the right lighting source back there and being able to hide it so that when it's turned on, it doesn't show through from behind the cabinet.

A 15 watt tungsten bulb on a 120 AC circuit will be equal to a 960 Ohm resistor hot and approximately 64 watt resistor cold. The reason for this difference can be seen here: http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2004/DeannaStewart.shtml

 

This will do the 1kohm but you need a heat sink. http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Caddock/MP2060-100K-1/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtlubZbdhIBILAbzA1esnyy2x%2fU3bBSnlE%3d

 

Wait a minute... When you dim the LED's with the 15 watt light in series, the light dims as the LED's do. That means the resistance of the light bulb lowers as the tungsten cools. You may need as low as a 64 watt resistor to pull this off. 

 

Does the 15 watt bulb dim as you dim the LED's?

[Youthman]

Yes the 15 watt bulb dimms with the LED's