Woofers and Tweeters Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 What are you dialing in or just enjoying? Like most of you, I'm always scratching and itch that won't stop itching. I'm fortunate enough to have a lot and have passed deals forward to keep trying to dial in that sound I'm scratching to hear. I have seller's remorse more than once: so many time I have wondered what X speakers would have coupled so nicely with Y amp / system. I have had several combinations that I really enjoyed. Regardless, what are you dialing in or enjoying? As a confession, I'll go 1st, 2nd, and 3rd: 1 - I have a Marantz 2238 that I'm trying to couple with some Khorn. I know they both sound great, but the room (though carpeted) sounds like schat. (fail so far) 2 - Just now am moving in a room that I've been working on for a master bed room. 12'h x ~20' x 20'. filled with area rugs, large bed & pillows, cloth loveseat/recliner, and other furniture. KLF-30 bass only center on the floor and Chorus II up 7' + at the TV, both being powered by the Onkyo M504 + Belle flanking the whole wall powered by the Sansui BA2000. Both amps are getting a signal from an AU 7700. In other areas, it's great. in here .... not there yet. 3 - I'll post this later Do tell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 I've been working on the bedroom system, just swapped amps out again, back to a Sunfire 200x5. I hooked up the rear RC-7's the other day and today set my "party" mode on my TG-III to only include the fronts (RF-5's) and the rear RC-7's, no center. Dialed the 7's back -3db and everything just blends perfectly. Voices are in front of me as they should be but the music is all around and just sounds awesome! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share Posted October 9, 2016 ^ that's some of what I'm hoping to take away from this tread: what works and maybe why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbphoto Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 I mess around with stuff for about a year before ending back up with stock Klipsch. On my main floor, I have stock Heresy III's that I tweaked and positioned before finding the right location for the room. Been enjoying ever since. In my basement, I have stock La Scala II's that I've moved and toe'd all over the place, and even replaced the K77 tweeters with Crites' CT-120 over the summer before returning to stock a few weeks ago. Bought a miniDSP UMIK-1 mic to use with REW that has helped me dial things in. Not sure I'm done tweaking the basement but I've been enjoying them as-is for the last month. My back thanks me. (My wife makes fun of me when I start doing REW sweeps with my mic.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 I mess around with stuff for about a year before ending back up with stock Klipsch. On my main floor, I have stock Heresy III's that I tweaked and positioned before finding the right location for the room. Been enjoying ever since. In my basement, I have stock La Scala II's that I've moved and toe'd all over the place, and even replaced the K77 tweeters with Crites' CT-120 over the summer before returning to stock a few weeks ago. Bought a miniDSP UMIK-1 mic to use with REW that has helped me dial things in. Not sure I'm done tweaking the basement but I've been enjoying them as-is for the last month. My back thanks me. (My wife makes fun of me when I start doing REW sweeps with my mic.)Did you not like the CT-120's? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattSER Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Picked up these mint, black KLF-30's couple weeks ago. Noticed a slight buzzing sound from one of the mids. Pulled it apart and found a tiny piece of dirt in the ring on the magnet where the diaphragm fits. Pulled it out via the sticky note trick i read about on Crites' site. Still amazed at the condition of these things. Paid top dollar for them and they're worth every penny to me. Powered by my Adcom 545, couldn't be happier. Can't wait to order the titanium tweeter diaphragms and lock these towers in as my all time keepers! It's impossible to find good pictures of KLFs, so an image from Youthman's theater is now my avatar. Also, anybody know what's up with this(apparently old) image of the KLF? It looks like a combination of CF and KLF! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 6 hours ago, Weber said: 12'h x ~20' x 20'... In other areas, it's great. in here .... not there yet. Look at Dope From Hope Volume 9 Number 1 February 1968 "Room Proportions and Distribution of Eigentons". See attached PDF. Included in the supplement (second page) added April 1969 is the result of Bolt's analysis in his paper about frequency statistics for rectangular rooms... PWK reproduces a tool from the paper that summarizes the result and may be used directly for evaluating rooms. It is an X-Y graph in which the X values are the ratios of room width to room height, and the Y values are the ratios of room length to room height. You calculate both ratios and use those as coordinates to plot your point location in the graph... hopefully inside the boundary area defined by his technical results which indicate within what room proportions the sound frequencies are best behaved... PWK comments that this boundary contour encloses "near perfect" rooms, because some rooms slightly outside the boundary sound OK to him. Your W:H is 20/12=1.666... Your L:H is 1.666... The point in the graph represented by those coordinates is well outside the contour boundary, which is not surprising because square rooms are "bad rooms". DOPE from HOPE!!!.pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbphoto Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 4 hours ago, jimjimbo said: Did you not like the CT-120's? Nice tweeters but they ran too hot through the AL-5 (?) crossovers. Struggled to get them balanced. See attached measurement of both drivers running solo through the AL-5 crossover. K77=blue. CT120=green. The CT120 already has about an inch of open-cell foam in the throat of the horn in an attempt to attenuate it a bit, otherwise it would be hotter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share Posted October 9, 2016 2 hours ago, pauln said: Your W:H is 20/12=1.666... Your L:H is 1.666... The point in the graph represented by those coordinates is well outside the contour boundary, which is not surprising because square rooms are "bad rooms". DOPE from HOPE!!!.pdf It is what it is, I have to make it work. Kind or wish that I still had my THX Ultra II system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share Posted October 9, 2016 6 hours ago, jimjimbo said: Did you not like the CT-120's? 2 hours ago, pbphoto said: Nice tweeters but they ran too hot through the AL-5 (?) crossovers. Struggled to get them balanced. See attached measurement of both drivers running solo through the AL-5 crossover. K77=blue. CT120=green. The CT120 already has about an inch of open-cell foam in the throat of the horn in an attempt to attenuate it a bit, otherwise it would be hotter. I just now bought some CT-120 from a fellow forum member. I haven't had a chance to try them yet. They'll be playing through AK-3 Xovers and I made stands so that I can place them on top to time align them a little and AB them to the stock tweeters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbphoto Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 2 hours ago, Weber said: I just now bought some CT-120 from a fellow forum member. I haven't had a chance to try them yet. They'll be playing through AK-3 Xovers and I made stands so that I can place them on top to time align them a little and AB them to the stock tweeters. Keep me posted. I may try mine again if I can figure out a way to get them EQ'd better. Then I can truly compare them to the K77. I suspect they have a cleaner more accurate voice than the K77, but I don't know for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share Posted October 9, 2016 1 hour ago, pbphoto said: Keep me posted. I may try mine again if I can figure out a way to get them EQ'd better. Then I can truly compare them to the K77. I suspect they have a cleaner more accurate voice than the K77, but I don't know for sure. It might be a while. I have the Khorn in a room that's not playing nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 I'm still trying to figure out my love/hate relationship with the new-to-me Khorns w/AA XO's. I'm using the Khorns in the living room for TV using an mid-range Onkyo 717 AVR and we all know an AVR is not necessarily the ideal amp to use with Khorns. In a 5.1 configuration with my mismatched speakers the Khorns sound mediocre at best in 5.1. But if I run them in 2.0 stereo they come alive with a rich full sound. What amazes me is that in 2.0 the phantom center is VERY strong, to the point you don't even hear the Khorns as L/R! Imaging is out of this world! My latest thinking is that in 5.1 mode the AVR chokes the Khorns back so far that the horns never get loaded except at higher volumes. That could explain the anemic flat sound in 5.1 mode. Learning the Khorns is a work in progress, and I have a lot to learn. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 A friend of mine was using a mid-line Yamaha Receiver for his Klipschorns a few years ago in a far less than ideal living room and it sounded like crap! I loaned him a Sunfire Ultimate Receiver and it was a night and day difference (better) in sound quality. It still sounded pretty bad, at least compared to my Chorus II's at the time but I'm certain the room and speaker placement was 99% of the problem. He had only a half corner on one wall with wood paneling on the walls with a hardwood floor. Extremely loud but equally unpleasant in those conditions. They sounded ok at lower volumes though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 After tinkering last night I think I'm going back to and going to stick with the 400 watt Signature amp. I know I don't need that much power but I just like the sound better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share Posted October 9, 2016 7 hours ago, pauln said: <snip> "bad rooms". DOPE from HOPE!!!.pdf Also, It doesn't help that I have a combination oak & tile floor. Even silence echoes in that room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share Posted October 9, 2016 1 hour ago, wvu80 said: I'm still trying to figure out my love/hate relationship with the new-to-me Khorns w/AA XO's. I'm using the Khorns in the living room for TV using an mid-range Onkyo 717 AVR and we all know an AVR is not necessarily the ideal amp to use with Khorns. In a 5.1 configuration with my mismatched speakers the Khorns sound mediocre at best in 5.1. But if I run them in 2.0 stereo they come alive with a rich full sound. What amazes me is that in 2.0 the phantom center is VERY strong, to the point you don't even hear the Khorns as L/R! Imaging is out of this world! My latest thinking is that in 5.1 mode the AVR chokes the Khorns back so far that the horns never get loaded except at higher volumes. That could explain the anemic flat sound in 5.1 mode. Learning the Khorns is a work in progress, and I have a lot to learn. Yep, I've all but given up ...., scratch that, I have given up on AVR for 2 channel listening. I can't get it to sound like I know that it should. I have had my Khorn in 4 rooms. Only one did they sound fantastic. 2 of the rooms were too small and one was totally empty, so it echoed. Have you tried coupling your Khorn to a HK730 or something of the sort? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share Posted October 9, 2016 47 minutes ago, jjptkd said: A friend of mine was using a mid-line Yamaha Receiver for his Klipschorns a few years ago in a far less than ideal living room and it sounded like crap! I loaned him a Sunfire Ultimate Receiver and it was a night and day difference (better) in sound quality. It still sounded pretty bad, at least compared to my Chorus II's at the time but I'm certain the room and speaker placement was 99% of the problem. He had only a half corner on one wall with wood paneling on the walls with a hardwood floor. Extremely loud but equally unpleasant in those conditions. They sounded ok at lower volumes though. I have experienced that a few times. Moved the Forte several times (same area, same wall, same equipment, same tunes, etc..) before getting them just right. There was a sweet spot, but they effortlessly filled the room so that no matter where one was, they still sounded great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 What are you... ...a non-AVR fan... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 4 hours ago, Weber said: Have you tried coupling your Khorn to a HK730 or something of the sort? No. I can get a pretty good sound with the AVR but I have to use the correct mode, which in the case of the Khorns is Pure Audio (2.0) or Stereo (2.0). I can also get an outstanding sound by using Blu Ray at near reference levels. As you suggest an HK730 or its like would be a better match than my AVR, tubes as well. The problem is I like the AVR for its simplicity, lots of HDMI and the ability for my wife to lot be overwhelmed with buttons. In her case, two buttons is the absolute limit. I'm currently running the Khorns in Stereo mode. It's shocking how strong the center sound is and the gigantic speakers in the corners completely disappear in terms of sound. It's only when you sit off-center can you finally hear sound coming directly from the speakers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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