How hard should you push or not push your speakers?

[Futurist]

2 minutes ago, mattSER said:

 

Psshh . .... the bass and treble should be flat anyway 

Even with out a subwoofer?... I like rock and metal and I want to have it sound like it does at a concert.. It excites me and gives me chills... Even If I listen to the Beatles or music from the 50's I want to hear the bass notes ring out. I understand if someone listens to classical or jazz they don't aim for that powerful sound..

[mattSER]

When I aim for that "powerful sound", I turn the volume up.

 

I understand boosting bass and treble, but I only do that at low volume. Nothing sounds better than flattening it all out and cranking it up!

[pzannucci]

By their nature, the further speakers move, the more distortion they produce.  Now is that distortion noticeable in the bass area in particular?  Many times no unless your amp isn't in distress and your woofer is moving linear (within a reasonable portion of it's x-max) keeping it within it's magnetic gap.

The major problems that occur is when a woofer is approaching x-max or unloading which doesn't have to be at a particular frequency but is based on the box design.

Using a subwoofer only transfers the distortion away from your main speaker.  If that is to say your main speaker doesn't distort as much, that's fine but the sub is doing the distortion for you and you don't notice it because it is in the bass.  If the sub's distortion is low, that's good but there is no reason you can't have the sub built into your speaker running off your main amplifier.  Just crossover the lowest octave woofer(s) somewhere in the 150hz range and you now have clean mid-bass on up.  Not rocket science just more expensive.

 

Also look into Kipple Large Signal Modeling (example http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/more-info/295-344-dayton-audio-ps180-8-klippel-test-results.pdf ) implies the farther from maximum magnetic pull, the higher the distortion and something near and dear to PWK's heart, Doppler effect - Dope From Hope http://assets.klipsch.com/files/Dope_660301_v7n3.pdf

[chriswhotakesphotos]

Klipsch does impressively well when it comes to managing bass and mids from one driver. Even on the Synergy F-20, it took a lot of pushing on bassy music before the bass would noticeably take anything out of the mids. When I still had the RP-280Fs set up (KG 5.2 in their place right now) I never noticed the mids taking a hit due to their bass response. I used to use a tiny pair of Synergy B-10s for my computer; I'd push electronic music to huge levels without much consideration only to be a bit spooked when I saw how much those tiny drivers were moving. They never blew, though!

 

One question I do have is related to the Heresy actually. All my other speakers have big huge rubber surrounds and can clearly take a lot, but since the Heresy's drivers are made to be low-excursion, how much is too much?

[russ69]

On 11/21/2016 at 11:07 PM, derrickdj1 said:

I've never seen my drivers moving like the speakers in the video nor do I want to. 

 

A 2 inch excursion woofer is not unusual, and I'm reading there are products with 5 and 6 inch excursions. But let me be the voice of caution. If you want to play loud, you will have to pay. Finding your system's limits can get costly. Blow fuses, smoked drivers, and destroyed diaphragms/cones/ribbons are in your future. I learned this early and I don't play loud anymore, just reasonable satisfying levels. You'll hate your life when you blow an extremely expensive or irreplaceable driver. Moderation usually means your drivers will last multiple decades.   

[HDBRbuilder]

On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 2:46 PM, chriswhotakesphotos said:

One question I do have is related to the Heresy actually. All my other speakers have big huge rubber surrounds and can clearly take a lot, but since the Heresy's drivers are made to be low-excursion, how much is too much?

Those "big huge rubber surrounds" will eventually have to be replaced, but the pleated surrounds on Heresy woofers will likely last a lifetime....or more!  The Heresy is a more-or-less sealed enclosure, which creates a slight overpressure inside the cabinet when the woofer is moving to the rear, and a slight underpressure when the woofer cone is moving forward.  This helps to keep the short-excursion woofer from being damaged by over-excursion (SLAMMING).  If you leave everything set flat on your pre-amp section and do NOT allow the amp section to go into clipping, you should be fine for ALL the drivers in Heresy speakers.  That being said, the factory specs on Heresys should be followed...no more than 105 watts both channels driven.  Even then there are more caveats, for example:  So many recording "engineers" nowadays do really sad work when mixing that you can easily damage tweeters and such from a signal which goes "way into the red" that is actually on your source material due to the lousy work of those recording engineers.  There was a time when this was SELDOM and issue, but still happened, case in point: Irene Cara's "What a Feeling" (Theme to Flashdance) from 1983 where the source material goes WAY INTO THE RED...in a few places due to lousy mixing!  And you can HEAR IT DO SO! ...at about the 2:58-2:59 point in the song!  NOT GOOD FOR TWEETERS!  Great performance but lousy recording engineer attention to detail!  It is EXTREMELY noticeable on the 45 rpm record single, UNFORTUNATELY!

[Harleywood]

It all depends on your amp and source signal A clean signal will allow you to push them harder without damaging anything. 

These are my Epic CF-2's being driven at 1/4 power. One speaker has a blown tweeter and crossover caused by my old pre amp that shorted out. New tweeter on the way and I'm sending both crossovers to Bob Crites next week to be rebuilt. If it hadn't of been for my preamp shorting and sending a bad signal to left channel these speakers would have probably gone the rest of my life without needing repair.

 

[Shiva]

Years ago, I talked to a tech support guy at Crown in regards to using their K2 power amp with my Epic CF3's. The K2 puts out 500 watts a side at 8ohms.   According to their specs, the Epics can handle 250 watts continuous with 1000 peaks, as several other Klipsch speakers also state.   The Crown dude told me that what those specs mean to him anyways, is that the speaker can handle 250 watts continuously for a period lasting 2 hours and with a 1000 peak can handle a program of 500 watts.  When i asked him what program means, he said that the speaker should be able to handle 500 watts for a period of one hour.  His info, is based on speakers designed for professional use and are supposed to live up to those numbers.   I don't know if klipsch's speakers that have those specs could in truth handle that degree of wattage, but if even close to those numbers, one could drive them pretty hard without worry.  Anyone want to chime in, in regards to the tech guy's info and klipsch's numbers.     

[MORE KLIPSCH PLEASE]

2 hours ago, shiva said:

 Anyone want to chime in, in regards to the tech guy's info and klipsch's numbers.  

I'm not a tech guy, but here's what I've done. I'm going to use a Chorus for example. 

I push them hard... I'm not afraid to put the watts to em.... I'll power them with one of my Carver's.... like a TFM-42. That amp has L.E.D's... the amp is rated @375 watts into 8 ohms. I'll have those L.E.D.'s hanging @ that 375 mark. I mean putting to watts to those Chorus.. I've even had the next level of L.E.D.'s light up... that's 750 watts "HeadRoom Exhausted"  If I see the yellow L.E.D. light up I'll back it off. 

Now the Chorus are rated @ 100 watts continuous 1000 watts peak. So as I just said I'm pounding them with 375+ watts continuous.... I might do this for a few tracks not for hours at a time. If I see the "HeadRoom Exhausted" light up then I will back it off.... So That's a 750+ watt burst going into the Chorus..... It's still with-in the specs of the Chorus but I know I have reached the HeadRoom of the amp. To my understanding a distorted signal will damage a driver... and when you have exhausted the headroom of a amp it can/will put out a distorted signal. 

 

MKP :-)

[Shiva]

51 minutes ago, MORE KLIPSCH PLEASE said:

I'm not a tech guy, but here's what I've done. I'm going to use a Chorus for example. 

I push them hard... I'm not afraid to put the watts to em.... I'll power them with one of my Carver's.... like a TFM-42. That amp has L.E.D's... the amp is rated @375 watts into 8 ohms. I'll have those L.E.D.'s hanging @ that 375 mark. I mean putting to watts to those Chorus.. I've even had the next level of L.E.D.'s light up... that's 750 watts "HeadRoom Exhausted"  If I see the yellow L.E.D. light up I'll back it off. 

Now the Chorus are rated @ 100 watts continuous 1000 watts peak. So as I just said I'm pounding them with 375+ watts continuous.... I might do this for a few tracks not for hours at a time. If I see the "HeadRoom Exhausted" light up then I will back it off.... So That's a 750+ watt burst going into the Chorus..... It's still with-in the specs of the Chorus but I know I have reached the HeadRoom of the amp. To my understanding a distorted signal will damage a driver... and when you have exhausted the headroom of a amp it can/will put out a distorted signal. 

 

MKP :-)

Good info on your Chorus's experiences.   As a side note, I did buy the Crown K2 and have been driving the Epics with it for the last 5 years or so. It doesn't display how much wattage I use, but when playing the blue-ray "Metallica-Through the Never",  which is the most dynamic disc I have heard to this day, the gain lights blaze on the K2 and I know a decent amount of wattage is pouring into the Epics, and they are Slammin!

[MORE KLIPSCH PLEASE]

On 12/10/2016 at 1:14 PM, Harleywood said:

 

It all depends on your amp and source signal A clean signal will allow you to push them harder without damaging anything. 

 

Agreed 

What is that song playing in your 1st video??

 

MKP :-)

[Schu]

In my room... roughly 25x45... I rarely ever close in on 90bd.

 

Most of my playing tops out in the 80db-85db range.

The sweet spot for my room size/layout is right in that db range.

 

Most nights I am really only getting to 75db or so.

 

Quality over quantity, but I do love "feeling" my music...

[totalcomfort]

You don't buy a vette to drive 55 mph, same goes for speakers. I have a pair of cornscalas in a building that we hit with a true 80 watts, we had hearing protection on but they were moving a bunch, but never broke a sweat. Feed them clean power and they can handle it.

[pzannucci]

7 hours ago, totalcomfort said:

You don't buy a vette to drive 55 mph, same goes for speakers. I have a pair of cornscalas in a building that we hit with a true 80 watts, we had hearing protection on but they were moving a bunch, but never broke a sweat. Feed them clean power and they can handle it.

Hmmm,

Learn to respect Power (Vette or speakers) or you will pay later.   Either with a ticket or your ears. 

They key is you know you can.   

 

Nice you wore hearing protection.

[Schu]

8 hours ago, totalcomfort said:

You don't buy a vette to drive 55 mph, same goes for speakers. I have a pair of cornscalas in a building that we hit with a true 80 watts, we had hearing protection on but they were moving a bunch, but never broke a sweat. Feed them clean power and they can handle it.

That's not a good analogy. if we are to take the comparison as gospel, then it should be... "would you buy a vetter and only drive 120mph". (Because a vetter WILL GO much faster).

 

My contention is, on a road rated for 80mph thru the turns... 120mph is extremely fun!

[Harleywood]

19 hours ago, MORE KLIPSCH PLEASE said:

Agreed 

What is that song playing in your 1st video??

 

MKP :-)

New York by Micro Chip League (MCL). Released around 1986. I picked up the vinyl playing about the same year. 

[Harleywood]

On December 11, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Schu said:

In my room... roughly 25x45... I rarely ever close in on 90bd.

 

Most of my playing tops out in the 80db-85db range.

The sweet spot for my room size/layout is right in that db range.

 

Most nights I am really only getting to 75db or so.

 

Quality over quantity, but I do love "feeling" my music...

The last house I lived in my room was 20'x32' with carpet. I miss the bigger room. I'm the only one in my family that uses the formal living room where I've got my system set up now so I'm seriously thinking of ditching that huge antiquated entertainment center and dinosaur rear projection TV that I never watch. That would give me a little more breathing room literally. I've found a room with less clutter allows for better sound since there's not much around to absorb and misdirect.