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Srinath

Artificial sweeteners

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I've been experimenting with artificial sweeteners.

So This is my question.

Stuff sweetened with sucralose tastes super super super sweet first sip. Then they taste like no sweetener was put into it. It tastes natural and nice, just like sugar, but only that first sip.

Has anyone found a way to make it taste even all the way across ?

 

Now I have a weird way around it. Keep a oz or so of apple cider vinegar. And a tiny tiny sip of that, and sip of water will keep the tea or coffee still tasting sweet.

 

Also fruit flavored drinks - lemon or raspberry tea tastes fine with sucralose except that first sip still is super super sweet. I have even tried 1 drop first sip and adding a second drop into the thing after, then 1st and 2nd taste sweet, and 3rd on is less, but still fine.

 

Cool.

Srinath.

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Why ?? Sucralose is actually pretty good. It is very very close to sugar. The problem is, sucralose has been conflated with "Splenda" and Splenda completely isn't the same thing. Splenda has dextrose and maltodextrin. Completely negating the reason for a non carb sweetener.

Cool.

Srinath.

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Sucralose has a molecular formula of C12H19Cl3O8, which is produced by chlorinating sucrose, ordinary white table sugar. It is a five-step process discovered in 1976 by a British company, which sold it to Johnson and Johnson Company who then formed McNeil Specialty Products to commercialize sucralose.

 

The human body is very good at detoxifying itself of certain substances, but this is not the case with organochlorine compounds, which are organic compounds that have been chlorinated. Dioxin, one organochlorine compound that is a by-product of the paper bleaching process, is 300,000 times more carcinogenic than DDT, an insecticide that was banned because of its toxicity. These compounds have been linked to birth defects, cancer, and immune dysfunction. These chemicals stay in the body and accumulate over time. According to the Sucralose Toxicity Information Center, the absorbed sucralose and its metabolites (chemically altered substances) concentrate in the liver, kidney, and gastrointestinal tract. The FDA says there is only 11 percent to 27 percent absorption, but the Japanese Food Sanitation Council says as much as 40 percent is absorbed by the body.

According to claims by the manufacturer, the chlorine part of the sucralose molecule is similar to the chorine part of common table salt (NaCl – Sodium Chloride). However, some would caution that using sucralose may be more like ingesting small amounts of chlorinated pesticides like DDT. More long-term independent research is needed to evaluate this safety concern.

Purity is something everyone is striving for. The FDA claims that sucralose is 98 percent pure, but what about the other 2 percent? It contains heavy metals like lead, arsenic, triphenilphosphine oxide, methanol, chlorinated disaccharides, and other potentially dangerous substances.

One study on sucralose showed an increase in glycosylated hemoglobin (meaning damage to the oxygen carrying part of a red blood cell). Research in animals has shown:

  1. Up to 40 percent shrinkage of the thymus gland. (Critical for the response to disease – the ‘heart’ of our immune system)
  2. Enlarged liver and kidneys
  3. Atrophy of lymph follicles
  4. Reduced growth rate

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1 hour ago, Srinath said:

Has anyone found a way to make it taste even all the way across ?

I am type one diabetic, and detest chemical sweeteners.  Sucralose has made things MUCH better...but I guess everyone's reaction is different.  The stuff tasted like sugar from first use and still does...except a lot more convenient in dissolving instantly.  Neither I nor my doctor have any issues with side effects.  What little I've read suggests opinion or even sabotage. 

 

Aspartame tastes sweet...but with me, it sticks in my mouth for a couple of hours.  Even a single sip of the stuff stays on my tongue.  Maddening.  But, like I said, seems others have different experiences.

 

Splenda coke and pepsi are closer, IMHO, to the originals than the fructose sweetened stuff.  Wish Dr. Pepper would follow suit. 

 

Dave

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I was type 2 Pre diabetic 7 months and 100 lbs ago. FBS=99, A1C=5.9 and 238 lbs.

 

I was fine and barely touched the sucralose till about 3 weeks ago. I am doing what I can only call medium term intermittent fasting. I eat only every 7-8-9 days. I am eating tomorrow, but my previous meal was on 4th Jan, (but I had a big helping of broth on 5th). next meal, lunch on 23rd, next one planned lunch on 31st but up in the air a bit. I am fat fasting lets call it that. My tea or coffee is a delivery vehicle for fat. Need that fat else I'd keel over - and I have done it a few times in the last few weeks.

 

I may have 10 lbs fat left, only about 1lb I can see. Beer gut, gone, butt, gone, spare tire, gone, man boobs sorry never had em even when hitting a pothole on a bike, all the other accoutrements of being fat - history.

 

I have to lose the 1 lb I can see and grab and stay that way for a month or 2 or forever. The idea is to get the fat you can see, cos that could mean all the fat you don't see also is greatly diminished. Visceral fat - all of it gotta go. Subcutaneous fat - its ok, fugly, but so am I now. I look like a skeleton in a trash bag. But, that's not the goal.

 

Sucralose has helped me a good bit, and I only see another 2-3 weeks before I will probably go to eating every 60 hrs, then every 36 and then every 24 if I am still losing weight.

However - sucralose can cause people to stall out on weightloss. You'd be starving like a MOFO and seeing the scale not move, and give up. Happened to me from sometime in June/july to sept 17 or so, because atkins shakes which I was drinking 1-2 a day due to my 100 mile 1 way commute have sucralose and acesulfame. Both cause water retention and stalls in weightloss due to that.

 

Anyway I am going to say this just once. Splenda isn't sucralose. 95% of Splenda is harmful to the most important group of people sucralose is aimed @ helping. Dextrose and maltodextrin. 1 packet of Splenda counts as 1 gm carb. Sucralose is hard to measure but its far more diabetic friendly. 99% of information about sucralose is there to conflate Splenda with sucralose. Its possible the same people are spreading crap about sucralose cos they're selling "Splenda" hoping we wont notice. I dunno.

 

Here is a side aspect I'd offer as a counterpoint to my countryman for developing Bose speakers and perpetrating that crap upon the world. Sucralose was discovered by another of my countrymen. One whose hand I'd definitely like to shake.

 

Doctors tell you "lose weight" but their methods are either non existent or guaranteed to fail. I have followed a far far far more knowledgeable doctor, and the method he has taught did not exist 10 years ago. I'll let the science catch up, but the quantity I am using and my inlaws have used about the same amount for 15+ yrs, have not caused any issues. However for me, the weight is gone, the visceral fat is gone, and if my insulin drops into the 2-3 range tomorrow, and I lose the 1 lb I can grab, I'll go into a calorie count diet, and stay @ my healthy weight - which is around this 145 I am now. But that last grabbable handful has to go and stay away atleast a few months, and maybe I'd see a more accurate scale move down - eagerly awaiting a scale that has 100'ths of lb.

 

In any case - off my soapbox now. Also one thing sucralose does not do - feed your good gut bacteria. Mine are in a state of shock @ how little food they have been given. And what is coming through, they cant live off. Bad thing is, sugar feed the bad ones more than the good. You have to cover the good ones with other ways, probiotic or prebiotics.

 

Cool.

Srinath.

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Sounds like quite a laboratory experiment.  Why not just eat a properly-balanced diet with proper portion sizes?  Eventually, that's what you'll have to do if you want any real modicum of health.

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4 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

Sounds like quite a laboratory experiment.  Why not just eat a properly-balanced diet with proper portion sizes?  Eventually, that's what you'll have to do if you want any real modicum of health.

 

AKA calorie counting. Excellent to stay @ the weight you are. Complete and utter disaster if you are trying lose weight, or trying to regain insulin sensitivity or cure diabetes, or even properly workout as a body builder.

Its a lab experiment only in the eyes of Pepsi, coke and lots and lots and lots of other "snack" food manufacturers. Every biomarker of mine that was measured in May improved in Oct. And I was 30+lbs heavier in Oct than I am now. Balanced eating = you stay balanced @ where you are, while dying to go crazy @ a buffet for the rest of your life. Intermittent fasting = suffer for 6-8 months if you had a 100 lbs to lose (heck, knowing what I know now, I'd lose it in 1/2 the time - and maybe skip the sucralose time frame) and live your life. No need to count much of anything. I don't know what my insulin was in May, would have been an excellent one to have gotten. But Oct 26th I was 5.1. Tomorrow if its under 3, I will have effectively set my life back to 1985. Cos the last time I was a 30 waist was sometime in 85-86.

 

No one will ever tell you to stop eating. Cos there is no way they make $$$$ there.

No one will tell you to forage for your food, cos no $$$ to be made there - which I did and ate a wonderful meal on the 18th of Dec - the best name for it is weed salad - I harvested all the weeds from my property and started my meal with that. I ate curly dock, lemony sorrel and fresh dill salad - any 1 of these 3 will have the round up sales man ready @ your door with the sprayer in hand in exchange for your credit card - and yet, curly dock in a 100 gm serving has 4gm carb, 3.6 of which is fiber. Its not as nutrient dense as spinach or kale, but that fiber number is unmatched. 1/2 gm protein and 1/4 gm fat makes it a free food for anyone trying to lose weight. And 100 gm is a dinner plate piled high, you cant eat it. There is so much of it.

 

I'll tell you one more thing - maybe this will hit home with someone - You go into goodwill or a yard sale and buy a pioneer sx1250 for $10 - and yes I have done that exact same thing - the first people who will stand there and curse/ridicule you will be pioneer sales people. Same analogy. You don't eat and get healthy - coke and pepsi and insurance companies and doctors go broke. Obviously they want you to eat breakfast within a minute of waking up "to jump start your metabolism". Bullcrap. Your metabolism has been jumpstarted via "counter regulatory hormones" your body made ~3am. Long since started and running. No need to confuse it now and cause an insulin spike.

 

BTW 8 days after any solid food, and 9 days after a real meal, I am actually ambivalent about hitting the buffet tomorrow. However I made a commitment to the little lady and I have post prandial test tomorrow. So that means I have to eat.

I got this covered. Please look up "Dr Fung Fasting" if you want a gentle on ramp into how to cure diabetes. Please Look up "Dr Mercola" if you want to get the shock of your life. And between these 2, Coke and pepsi have their Ace of spades and Ace of hearts (terrorist card deck of the Iraq war).

When I have no grabbable fat, and my accurate scale says I got no visceral fat, I'll go to eating, I do remember eating is fun. But dying of diabetes and not eating proper sugary drinks (raspberry sweet tea) or the real Indian style sweet tea (chai) I'd make is not something I can live without. "Cure" is the name of the game. Not "treat" ...

Hey, you walk out today and buy a Jubilee - so that you can avoid buy all the other ones - something like that.

Cool.

Srinath.

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Srinath, we share the name of a disease but type 1 and type 2 aren't really related.  When it comes to weight loss we type 2 are "lucky" in that with the complete absence of insulin we also have no appetite, which is insulin driven.  I could easily starve myself to death.  I've done the balancing act now for nearly 20 years since onset and have reached a 7.3 AG1 level...pretty solid.  The sucralose (I never buy Splenda as it's overpriced) I use now mainly for convenience.  I eat what I want, but have become pretty expert at insulin dosing to counteract sugar and carbs.  I was never really big on sugar laced stuff, preferring a good roast beef sandwich to a banana split any day.  I don't know much about type 2 maintenance, but I do know the side effects of either kind of diabetes are devastating.  Stay the course!  I've produced no insulin for 20 years and my feet are still good, no damage to my eyesight, etc.  It CAN be done...but you gotta do it.  Your doctor can't help.

 

Dave

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5 minutes ago, Srinath said:

cure diabetes

Bad term unless you specify.  Only type 2 can be "cured," and even then it's more like being a lifelong "recovering diabetic."  Waiting on a cure for type 1. 

Dave

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1 hour ago, Mallette said:

I am type one diabetic, and detest chemical sweeteners.  Sucralose has made things MUCH better...but I guess everyone's reaction is different.  The stuff tasted like sugar from first use and still does...except a lot more convenient in dissolving instantly.  Neither I nor my doctor have any issues with side effects.  What little I've read suggests opinion or even sabotage. 

 

Aspartame tastes sweet...but with me, it sticks in my mouth for a couple of hours.  Even a single sip of the stuff stays on my tongue.  Maddening.  But, like I said, seems others have different experiences.

 

Splenda coke and pepsi are closer, IMHO, to the originals than the fructose sweetened stuff.  Wish Dr. Pepper would follow suit. 

 

Dave

 

I suspect stevia and aspartame give me an insulin reaction. Splenda does not. I suspect this from the way I feel, but one of these days I will test it via a few blood draws, once I find a lab that will draw and test me as a walk in. And that was Splenda, nor sucralose. I have tried it @ my office where its free, before I committed to buying sucralose.

Sucralose has another bad habit atleast for me. I have so far drunk 6 big cups of chai. Yesterday I drank 7 but 3 were a bit smaller, same amount of. I am getting ready to make the 7th, but am postponing it to when the lady and kiddo will be slinging dinner. So I can socialize with food. 7 cups of chai are 2 X what I can drink with sugar in any 24 hour window. It doesn't register as food or something. BTW I put pure fat in it, Heavy whipping cream. No insulin for me, 9 days without a insulin reaction = proper fast.

Cool.

Srinath.

 

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Srinath, congratulations on getting to a desirable body weight.  That, by itself, is something most people never attain.

 

Regarding crash dieting, I have heard, but never tried to research or confirm, that if you lose/gain weight too quickly, it can damage the pancreas.

 

Yes, you can maintain a good body weight and eat solid food - every day.  The body was made to do that.

 

Calorie counting works.  I lost 40 pounds limiting myself to about 1,500 calories a day.

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What is an "insulin reaction" for a type 2?  For me, it's a near death experience requiring a fast loading of sugar to counteract.  Also not sure about what kind of testing you are talking about.  I test my blood sugar 6 or more times per day. 

 

Dave

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1 minute ago, Mallette said:

Bad term unless you specify.  Only type 2 can be "cured," and even then it's more like being a lifelong "recovering diabetic."  Waiting on a cure for type 1. 

Dave

100% - you got me. I know quite a few 1's. And kids with it. You have to be treated, and take shots etc etc. My heart goes out to you.

Oh, let me ask - if you had just fat and say tea or coffee with sucralose - would you need an insulin shot after that ???

Did any of the other sweeteners need insulin ?? BTW milk protein is a big insulogenic substance too, another reason people on atkins shakes don't lose weight. Sucker has an ocean's worth of whey. You might as well suffer for nothing if you're trying to lose weight but still drinking atkins crap.

 

Thanks.

Srinath. 

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35 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

Sounds like quite a laboratory experiment.  Why not just eat a properly-balanced diet with proper portion sizes?  Eventually, that's what you'll have to do if you want any real modicum of health.

 

Seriously.  Try a healthy plant based tied (with minimal meat) and no junk or processed food.  Get use to drinking water.  I put a teaspoon of sugar in my coffee in the morning, that is it.  I drink a lot of water and maybe some tea in the afternoon.  The rest of my sugar I get from fresh fruit.  You need to each food that has a lot of fiber and is not calorie dense.  You cannot maintain what you are doing. 

 

You can control your weight very easily.  I gained a little weight on a vacation in December and lost 5 to 6 lbs in one week (Back to normal) when I got back just eating what I normally eat and normal exercise.  I am also never hungry.  I eat when I feel hungry but eat healthy food. 

 

You are going to hurt yourself.  We want you around to enjoy your speakers!

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3 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

Srinath, congratulations on getting to a desirable body weight.  That, by itself, is something most people never attain.

 

Regarding crash dieting, I have heard, but never tried to research or confirm, that if you lose/gain weight too quickly, it can damage the pancreas.

 

Yes, you can maintain a good body weight and eat solid food - every day.  The body was made to do that.

 

Calorie counting works.  I lost 40 pounds limiting myself to about 1,500 calories a day.

 

Not crash diet, its intermittent fasting. Crash diets rely on low calorie food. Fat is 9/gm, carbs are 4/gm and protein are also 4/gm. However most protein has fat accompanying it. So carb heavy food is in the crash diet. Causing an outsized insulin spike, overloading the already fatty liver and the clogged pancreas. You must have a good insulin sensitivity to have lost weight on a Calorie restriction as primary diet. You have resistance like all type 2 diabetics it wont be happening. BTW I plan on eating everything I like once I am @ my target weight. Why ??? because I'd have visceral fat @ the level I have not had since I was 3.

 

1 minute ago, Mallette said:

What is an "insulin reaction" for a type 2?  For me, it's a near death experience requiring a fast loading of sugar to counteract.  Also not sure about what kind of testing you are talking about.  I test my blood sugar 6 or more times per day. 

 

Dave

 

You take insulin shots ??? so after a coffee with proper milk and sucralose have you had to take it ? or atleast did you read higher blood sugar than immediately before ??

I should probably get one of em pin prick meters and just check it myself. But they dont give me what I want - which is the insulin in my blood.

Cool.

Srinath.

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Just now, tigerwoodKhorns said:

 

Seriously.  Try a healthy plant based tied (with minimal meat) and no junk or processed food.  Get use to drinking water.  I put a teaspoon of sugar in my coffee in the morning, that is it.  I drink a lot of water and maybe some tea in the afternoon.  The rest of my sugar I get from fresh fruit.  You need to each food that has a lot of fiber and is not calorie dense.  You cannot maintain what you are doing. 

 

You can control your weight very easily.  I gained a little weight on a vacation in December and lost 5 to 6 lbs in one week (Back to normal) when I got back just eating what I normally eat and normal exercise.  I am also never hungry.  I eat when I feel hungry but eat healthy food. 

 

You are going to hurt yourself.  We want you around to enjoy your speakers!

I echo this. For example, I make stir-fry all the time.  I just had a nice serving of kung pao chicken for dinner.  About 90 calories worth of chicken and 150 calories of a beautiful, colorful variety of peppers, onion, celery, squash and carrots, with a few dashes of soy sauce and a sprinkle of sugar.  Yum!!!!   And so healthy, too.  That was the side dish to my 390 calorie turkey pastrami sandwich (mustard, with 2 slices of cheese).  Add my 2 glasses of Kool-aid at 120 calories, and that's 770 calories for the whole meal.  This is an ideal meal size for maintenance and moderately-paced weight loss for bigger people.  People with weight issues tend to scarf down about 1,200 + calories in a single meal.

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2 minutes ago, Srinath said:

You must have a good insulin sensitivity to have lost weight on a Calorie restriction as primary diet. You have resistance like all type 2 diabetics it wont be happening.

I was unaware of this.  

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5 minutes ago, tigerwoodKhorns said:

 

Seriously.  Try a healthy plant based tied (with minimal meat) and no junk or processed food.  Get use to drinking water.  I put a teaspoon of sugar in my coffee in the morning, that is it.  I drink a lot of water and maybe some tea in the afternoon.  The rest of my sugar I get from fresh fruit.  You need to each food that has a lot of fiber and is not calorie dense.  You cannot maintain what you are doing. 

 

You can control your weight very easily.  I gained a little weight on a vacation in December and lost 5 to 6 lbs in one week (Back to normal) when I got back just eating what I normally eat and normal exercise.  I am also never hungry.  I eat when I feel hungry but eat healthy food. 

 

You are going to hurt yourself.  We want you around to enjoy your speakers!

Wont work for an insulin resistant person. BTW, I drink 2 gal water a day. That is a permanent change I will be sticking to.

And hurt myself on this diet - my bio markers tell a different story, I have actually not had normal BP in 30-40 yrs. They started reading a bit low in sept (when I was @219) and I get into the 170's and its reading lower than 120/80 most of the time, 110/72 or so @ last check.

Healthy and plant based and minimal meat all = bad. However no junk or processed - true, that is good. My end goal is to calorie count, cos its good for maintaining weight. But losing weight the right way - no. The right way to correct type 2 diabetes is to get rid of insulin. There is no other way. Intermittent fasting does that far better than anything ever thought up.

Cool.

Srinath.

 

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7 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

I was unaware of this.  

Test your fasting insulin. My bet, its under 5. Likely depending on how fast your weight loss was, under 4.

My very healthy, greens eating vegetarian but still borderline over weight wife had 3.7 without any help from IF.

After 6 weeks of IF+6 more weeks of Atkins + 6 more weeks of watching my bad carbs and fat and calorie counting (so much so that I skipped eating 2-3 more pieces of rasmalai @ my niece's wedding reception) On Oct 26th after losing nearly 50 lbs, I read 5.1 for insulin. My A1C was 5.3 then down from 5.9. My wife was 5.7 and FBS was 92. I was 5.3 and 70. But 5.3 of insulin = I am not out of the woods yet. Under 2 = I am home free. I am hoping it gets under 3 tomorrow.

IF isn't to lose weight. It is to get rid of insulin, and hence get rid of insulin resistance. 

 

BTW if you're calorie deficient, and insulin flooded which I would have been with a Calorie restricted crash diet - I'd lose weight, but It would be 75% muscle. Guess what, I'd have lost weight impressively. Cos muscle only give you 4 calories a gm, and if you're 400 calories in the hole a day, that's 100 gm muscle. Or, its more like 75 gm muscle and 10-11 gm fat (75% calories from muscle) Also, most of the first 20-30 lbs lost (10% body weight) is all mostly water. The usual saying is, anyone can lose 20lbs, the next 20 is 10X harder. Like mine, 238-219 I went without even realizing it. Then I was stuck @ 219 for 7+ weeks. Likely the atkins crap got in the way.

 

Greens and chicken etc etc all work, to keep your weight. Or to lose that first 10%. Not if your goal is 100 lbs. BTW I had and still have no weight target in mind. I need this handful ~1lb - gone, and keep it gone for 3-4 months to get the visceral fat outta there.  The numbers on the scale don't matter. My new scale would have many more numbers. Those matter more.

Cool.

Srinath.

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