wvu80 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 On 3/6/2017 at 5:18 PM, SWL said: Man, that was awesome. Now I need to get my hearing back.... After reading the first part of your post, I was wondering about that. Be careful, your ears don't grow back like they did when you were young. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACV92 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 1 minute ago, wvu80 said: After reading the first part of your post, I was wondering about that. Be careful, your ears don't grow back like they did when you were young. Yeah, but unfortunately the do keep growing.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted March 11, 2017 Author Share Posted March 11, 2017 [mention=15340]SWL[/mention] OK, I have no experience with tubas. I came across this website, http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/T24.html, is this the design you're referencing? I found it interesting that the 24, 30, and 45 design of these subs exhibit an almost 10dB gain between 60 - 100 Hz. 60 Hz on the low side, 100 Hz pushes to 10 dB up. Similar to what you've described. So, my rookie question is that at higher volume levels are the KLF-30's falling off at the 60 - 100 Hz range where crossing over the tuba is filling in? Is this a comparative gain issue? I guess if it were me I would mic the KLF 30's by themselves at 60 - 65 dB and at the higher listening levels and see if there's a distinct difference in the graph. Next, I would do the same with the tubas and see if there's a blend point. Could you high shelf the tubas vs. low pass? Or, are you getting cancellation at higher dB levels? I'm throwing things at the wall to see if I'm beginning to understand real audio. I apologize for green horn syndrome. Don't mean to waste anyone's time.Hi ACV92,Actually the subs I have are BFM designed but the they are the Tuba Home Theater Low-Profile (THTLP).Thanks for the suggestions. The KLF's are fine at all frequencies in my room but where they really shine is in the 40-50hz range....and do really well at all the lower bass frequencies. Which is why...and I've experimented a hundred times...I never high pass my mains. It would be a sin cut the nuts off from the 30's. So I simply use the subs to accent their bass. It has worked very well for me over the years. YMMV but.....I'm suspecting something may be wrong with my Paradigm X-30 subwoofer controller. I have two, so I'm gonna hook up the other one and see what I can find out.Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted March 11, 2017 Author Share Posted March 11, 2017 After reading the first part of your post, I was wondering about that. Be careful, your ears don't grow back like they did when you were young. Yeah, I was exaggerating a bit because it was rocking so hard. I never went more than 1/2 a song in the sweet spot. I think I spent more time walking around the house inspecting the integrity of the structure since the Tubas were no doubt testing it.[emoji14] Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted March 11, 2017 Moderators Share Posted March 11, 2017 15 hours ago, SWL said: What are you guys using for bass management with your horn subs? I'm running a vintage two-channel system using a Paradigm X-30 to control gain, x-over and phase. Nothing, just the plate amp which has phase, gain control and crossover point. But the speakers are folded horns which make a better match, it seems. Plus the sub is only used from 40Hz down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted March 11, 2017 Author Share Posted March 11, 2017 Nothing, just the plate amp which has phase, gain control and crossover point. But the speakers are folded horns which make a better match, it seems. Plus the sub is only used from 40Hz down.It's becoming much clearer now since the upgrades to my speakers that I'm dealing with two different types of bass. Horn loaded and direct radiating. Doable but problably not the most optimal of course.Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted March 11, 2017 Author Share Posted March 11, 2017 I'm waiting to hear the results of someone incorporating the A55G's in some LaScalas. My Tubas might like some LaScalas in here.Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted March 11, 2017 Moderators Share Posted March 11, 2017 1 hour ago, SWL said: It's becoming much clearer now since the upgrades to my speakers that I'm dealing with two different types of bass. Horn loaded and direct radiating. Doable but problably not the most optimal of course. Very doable, I use the same horn sub for Ht with 6 Fortes and it sounds fine. It's just a little different sound but still just a sub and especially if crossed low, well almost any sub will not be as noticeable as trying to match a full horn range speaker with a direct radiator speaker. To me the biggest difference with horn subs is they seem to never be in a strain from being pushed. seems that way anyway. I know the horn part makes it much more efficient and higher output. We go to Lafayette La regularly and Kevin has Jubes and 2 KPT 684 subs, that's 4 18" drivers. His room was not short on bass and sounded good. He switched the 2 684's out for a KPT 1802 sub which has 1 18" driver but is a ported horn, the first ever. The difference was huge, much more and deeper bass and sounds much more natural to me. I have had plenty time to hear this setup and it's quite shocking. Last weekend we were there and spent many hours listening to youtube drum solos and all kinds of other music, that sub is amazing, it killed 4 18" direct radiator drivers, easily. Roy was there the weekend we switched out the subs, after listening a while i turned to Roy and said " I can't believe how clean and smooth it sounds, Roy looked at me and said " you doubted me ?" all I could do was smile, he caught me. I am glad at the pilgrimage this year roy will have Jubes set up with either a 1802 or the new 1502. I might steal one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted March 11, 2017 Author Share Posted March 11, 2017 Very doable, I use the same horn sub for Ht with 6 Fortes and it sounds fine. It's just a little different sound but still just a sub For home theatre, yes....it's a piece of cake. For music, it's far more challenging to dial in a sub.Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted March 11, 2017 Moderators Share Posted March 11, 2017 Your probably right, never thought about it like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted March 12, 2017 Author Share Posted March 12, 2017 I knew something wasn't right with my X-30.I brought my other X-30 up from my basement system. This one is like brand new. After swapping it with the old one, it took about 5 minutes to confirm what I suspected.The old one for some time now, it would seem that the phase control wasn't accurate. It was as if it was sticking or something. Like if I rotated the knob one way or the other and set it back to where I had it originally, it wouldn't sound right. I kinda let it go because I know where the phase needs to be and rarely touch it.So recently with the KLF-30 upgrade along with the component upgrades I started fiddling with the subs again.Hooked up my other X-30, made a few adjustments that sounded accurate....set it to 70 degrees out of phase (like it was originally) and now I've got my subs back. They sound/blend like how I remember them to. Even better! So I don't know for sure what the deal is with the X-30 but they are rare and I'd like to get this working properly again. I've recently found a good tech so I'm gonna see if he can check it out.Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 3 hours ago, SWL said: For home theatre, yes....it's a piece of cake. For music, it's far more challenging to dial in a sub. Easier for the pipe organ lover. Balance the 16' and 32' pipes as your ears would have them and you're good for everything. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted March 12, 2017 Author Share Posted March 12, 2017 Oh yeah, the bass is TIGHT again. Before the bass was like a haze covering the music. I knew something wasn't right.Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted March 12, 2017 Moderators Share Posted March 12, 2017 32 minutes ago, SWL said: They sound/blend like how I remember them to. Even better! Good news, phase is probably the most important thing with a sub. It's hard to imagine but true, phase can make a sub sound like it's almost turned off. Strange how that can work but you hear it all the time. You said it sounded like a haze covering the music, it was probably canceling out some bass from the mains plus the sub. Don't you love it when you work it out and it didn't cost anything. Better enjoy it, that's rare. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted March 12, 2017 Author Share Posted March 12, 2017 Yeah, it makes me wonder about the crossover frequency as well. I use to cut the sub off anywhere between 90-110hz. Now, I have it at 60hz and love it. Not to mention, 60hz jives with all the other subs I've had come through here.Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 I've hated 90% of the subs I've heard mated with horns. Exceptions are Edgar TItan and the big klipsch pro cinema stuff. I haven't heard the new Klipsch HLS but it looks amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Direct radiators (ported or sealed) will always produce higher order content regardless of filter set points. PPLS minimizes that, but can't solve the power response differences. SWL - setting 60 HZ shelves the rising response of the THT. IOW, now you're hearing what a true (acoustic) ~90 Hz crossover sounds like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 SWL - setting 60 HZ shelves the rising response of the THT. IOW, now you're hearing what a true (acoustic) ~90 Hz crossover sounds like. Can you/someone explain what this means?Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 1 hour ago, SWL said: Can you/someone explain what this means? Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk Basically means the THT could benefit from some EQ due to the naturally rising response of the horn design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 So even though the x-over is set at 60hz, it's actually bleeding through to 90hz?Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.