DizRotus Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Finally, the band director got back to me about the music system for the band room. She “blew up” the cheesy computer speakers in use now. The KP-201s and a Denon AVR with Bluetooth and a remote will fill the bill. A huge TV can connect to the AVR by HDMI. I meet with her and the building engineer on Thursday. I don’t see a way around attaching these to cinder block ~ 8’ up and ~ 15’ a part and angled down toward the seated students. Although not ideal, it will fill the large space with loud and clear Klipsch low distortion high efficiency dynamic sound. Any experience with brackets capable of supporting 45#? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 Before going to school, out with the TRS connectors— about the worst electrical connectors available — and in with Neutrik SpeakOn connectors, the best connectors available. Other than the SpeakOns and a coat of Duratex, they’re ready to go. I like the look of KP-201s with their metal screens, especially in this environment. I stopped by today to refresh my memory regarding the layout. She was working with a half dozen students when I interrupted. She introduced me as the guy bringing new speakers, which resulted in cheers and applause. Wait until they hear these. I told her she won’t blow these up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 These On Stage brackets for $60 from Amazon look like the answer, unless better suggestions surface. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted May 30, 2018 Moderators Share Posted May 30, 2018 A small cable or wire as a safety just in case something were to happen and one would slip, at least it wouldn't fall, or not quite as fast anyway. I made something similar for our 3 rear forte ll's so they could hang off a beam, it was the only placement we had. They have been there for years now, no safety wire but not in public either. I had to make them so they angled to the right spot. Those look heavy duty and up above the average reach would probably protect them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Wht kind of ceiling is in the room? We hung speakers from chain that ran up through the drop ceiling to the beams above. With two points on a side, a third chain allowed us to adjust the tilt downward. A drawing might be required to make it clear... Bruce 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 As I recall, there might be a dropped acoustical tile ceiling. The ceiling is higher in the band room than the rest of the school, not counting the gymnasium. The chain idea could work. That’s how I suspended Bose 901s from the beams in my parents’ family room 44 years ago. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave1290 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 I'd go with a heavier chain industrial look for up top. . Then no one could complain or worry about them falling. On the chain use some bolts heavy enough and doubled up w/TWO poly locking nuts on each bolt w/flat and lock washers. That should secure the top weight bearing chains. or just make a loop w/the chain and bolt the heck outta it. I wouldn't use screw in eyes up top on the cabinet due to the weight but one in the bottom for down-firing adjustments should work slick. Two point eyebolt suspension w/flat and locking washers with the poly locking nuts to the eyebolt chain up top. and the lower rear point for adjustment. The downside is opening them up to bolt the eyelets into the top of the cab. Never know when some kid might just try to swing from one to the other in Tarzan mode! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted May 30, 2018 Moderators Share Posted May 30, 2018 57 minutes ago, Dave1290 said: The downside is opening them up to bolt the eyelets into the top of the cab. It might be better to bolt the chain to the sides, it wouldn't be just hanging from the top that way ? Plus the chain idea would give backup if one point failed for any reason, 3 chains should work fine, one on each side and one to the bottom up the back to aim it down a little if needed ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 I’m liking the chain idea better all the time. Elden’s suggestion of going throug the sides rather than the tops makes sense. If chains are used, rather than eyes screwed into the plywood, I’m thinking heavy duty eyes with bolts going through the cabinets secured with fender washers, lock washers and thread locker. One issue with chains is the need for longer speaker leads to go up the chains, across the ceiling and then down to the AVR. Another issue is whether to suspend them Chipotle style with the tweeters at the bottoms, or with woofers down. I think Chipotle. Finally, do we use special audio grade chain, or off the rack chain from Home Depot with each link covered in Dynamat or plumber’s caulk? I’ll take some photos of the possible mounting surfaces on Thursday. They’re getting everything: refurbished KP-201s, refurbished Denon AVR from Accessories4less, Neutrik connector and cables, and installation for $1,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 Final test of Denon AVR, SpeakOns and the KP-201s. They sound great. Bluetooth works. Ready to demo tomorrow at 8:30am. I’m prepared to leave them temporarily hooked up until school ends in ~2 weeks, if she wants. After school ends, we can revisit Duratex and mounting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 It looks like the process of "Matriculation" is in full force here. Hank Stram sure started something. JJK 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted May 31, 2018 Moderators Share Posted May 31, 2018 17 hours ago, DizRotus said: If chains are used, rather than eyes screwed into the plywood, I’m thinking heavy duty eyes with bolts going through the cabinets secured with fender washers, lock washers and thread locker. That would be better, great idea, safe is good. 17 hours ago, DizRotus said: Finally, do we use special audio grade chain, or off the rack chain from Home Depot with each link covered in Dynamat or plumber’s caulk? I wouldn't think it would need to be really heavy, most chain gives you a weight rating, just include the weight of the chain also. Of course special audio chain would be best, probably about $2 a link should do well. They sell many different types of chain, even some rubber coated, but I think regular chain should work fine, shop around. A new Heresy lll is 44 pounds so you should be close to that, so a chain that can hold 50 pounds should work since you would have at least 2 chains and one to angle it, unless you figured out a way to connect the chain used to angle it to connect to the other 2 chain's, no reason for that one to go all the way to the ceiling anyway. I say this because almost any chain you will find will hold way more than the weight your going to hang to begin with. Maby a lighter chain going to each of the main chains which could be set to the angle needed after the speaker is hanging. Sounds like a fun project, as long as you have a big ladder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave1290 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 By golly I think it's gonna fly like the pink pig at the Floyd shows! The first thing they will look at is suspension, sound next cause most admin, janitors, guests are GONNA hear them sooo I just think the regular heavy chain links would look cool. Nice heavy links. Bwa ha ha... No paint, no nada just bolt the crap outta them and let 'em look "industrial." Seal the bolt holes up w/silicone and use the right bit... That's simple. They see what's holding them up there THEN they'll look to see what kind they are especially if they're singing. Run the wire the same way... Nylon cable ties (if you can) right down to the receiver. Gotta remember YOU'RE the one teaching now and once they hear it and ask you what you did and how that's what strokes the old guy's ego! Hahaha! Don't grin too much either! Another thought I just had re-reading this... Here's a lil study project for the one's that are truly interested.. Crank something out on paper explaining WHAT you did and WHY you did it. Tell them about the speakers explaining SOUND to them and how it's heard by the human ear... Explain the speakers and the 3-way system vs 2-way and 1-way and how the network breaks the sound down Tell them PWK's thoughts on sound cause you're actually turning these kids on to something GOOD that they just MAY use in their lifetime. At least you're pointing them in the right direction. Save a Master copy in your puter cause they will disappear in a year or so... Remember how you started w/tin cans and a string? Just another post coffee vision for what it's worth! lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 Chains are not an option. The ceilings are more than 20' above the floor. The building engineer dismissed that idea immediately. Instead, I've ordered a pair of the On Stage brackets shown below. Each supports 77#. The brackets will be located in the 24" (3 courses of block) starting close to the bottom corners of the white rectangles next to the blocks and going up. The brackets will allow the speakers to be aimed left to right and angled toward the students. I'm still thinking the speakers should be upside down. If so, the pole sockets will go in the tops and I'd flip the grille screens to keep "Klipsch Professional" badges right-side-up. The angle adjustment of the pole is maintained by interlocking teeth. I'll need to install pole mount adaptors in the KP-201s. The speakers will mount to the cinder block just outboard of the aluminum columns that contain the dry erase boards. I'll glue two sheets of 3/4 plywood together to then make mounting bases ~7.0 x 24.0 X 1.5. Those plywood rectangles will be anchored to the block, probably at the grout lines. A heavy duty anchor at each corner and one in the center should suffice. I plan to attach the brackets to the plywood with 1" wood screw. I'll probably drill two more holes in each bracket above the midpoint. They don't think I'm charging enough. As a parent of two sons who went through the band program, this is my contribution to music and the arts in the public schools. I told them I just want to be reimbursed for my costs, but my time is a donation.. Spending other people's money on a hobby project is fun. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted May 31, 2018 Moderators Share Posted May 31, 2018 35 minutes ago, DizRotus said: The ceilings are more than 20' above the floor. OK that's out. Upside down works well in a situation like that just before you start cutting make sure there is horn clearance inside for the piece that needs to be mounted into the speaker. The worst that would happen is the speaker may have to go upright ? No matter what you do it will be a big improvement. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 13 minutes ago, dtel said: OK that's out. Upside down works well in a situation like that just before you start cutting make sure there is horn clearance inside for the piece that needs to be mounted into the speaker. The worst that would happen is the speaker may have to go upright ? No matter what you do it will be a big improvement. Thanks for the warning Elden. The backs don't come off, but the drivers and horns will be removed to paint the motorboards, touch up some dings in the cabinets, and apply Duratex. Another reason to put the pole sockets in the tops is possible internal clearance issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 27 minutes ago, DizRotus said: Another reason to put the pole sockets in the tops is possible internal clearance issues. ? Pole mounts are normally in the bottom with no clearance issues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I'd use toggle bolts in the center of the cinder blocks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 30 minutes ago, CECAA850 said: ? Pole mounts are normally in the bottom with no clearance issues. If I were to invert them, the K-76-K tweeter magnets are closer to the tops than the woofer magnets are to the bottoms, but I don't yet know how far the magnets extend from the inside of the motorboard. As Elden said, worst case scenario they stay upright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 29 minutes ago, CECAA850 said: I'd use toggle bolts in the center of the cinder blocks. I agree but the "building engineer" (we knew them as janitors in our day) seemed to want to stay within the grout lines. If there are five attachments, the fifth, in the center, would need to be in a block. I'll try to change his mind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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