La Scala II's

[Deano1974]

Your ear might have become acclimated to the more boomy and bloomy direct radiating 15" woofer of the Cornwall but in the end, despite not digging as low, you will fall in love with the more natural and much tighter folded horn of the LSii.

Thats what I want, im always listening for accuracy and I hope the LS II will give me that, bass thats tight and not lossy

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[Marvel]

1 hour ago, Schu said:

Your ear might have become acclimated to the more boomy and bloomy direct radiating 15" woofer of the Cornwall but in the end, despite not digging as low, you will fall in love with the more natural and much tighter folded horn of the LSii.

 

Exactly! Very well said, sir.

 

Bruce

[dtel]

1 hour ago, Deano1974 said:

1 hour ago, Schu said:

Your ear might have become acclimated to the more boomy and bloomy direct radiating 15" woofer of the Cornwall but in the end, despite not digging as low, you will fall in love with the more natural and much tighter folded horn of the LSii.

Thats what I want, im always listening for accuracy and I hope the LS II will give me that, bass thats tight and not lossy

Well you should love the LaScala. 

 

This is going to be good. 

[Dave1290]

19 minutes ago, dtel said:

Well you should love the LaScala. 

 

This is going to be good. 

Yuuuuuuuuupppppp, exactly what I've been thinking allllll along...     😂😂😎

[Deano1974]

im sooo excited and looking forward to everything you guys are saying these speakers can do, 😊

[Dave1290]

I'm kinda thinking you're gonna get your butt kicked    Thing is...  ...You'll hear it coming AND going...  😂   I think the general consensus is smiling and waiting for whatever happens.  Take your time and make us all suffer wondering.  Got that playlist in mind yet?  One more thing...  Don't hurt yourself!  😂 😂 😎

 

[garyrc]

10 hours ago, Marvel said:

I never liked the bass on Cornwalls... the LS has a cleaner, tighter sound. LS mids are bigger, too.

 

Bruce

 

There are two sets of opinion on this, sometimes within the same Klipsch dealership.  I'm on the cleaner, tighter bass side, therefore, I favor La Scalas.  I have heard La Scalas sound glorious, with a startling amount of bass impact, and I've heard them sound harsh. 

 

The worst La Scala sound I heard was from a live (outdoor) punk band c. 1975.  It was as harsh as can be.  The LS cabinets were on pedestals, too far from the bass reinforcing ground plane, with 360 degrees of empty space around them (no boundary gain and no room gain), and the band had cheap AV equipment, with no EQ that I remember (their equipment was accessible, and I would have looked). 

 

The best time was with the LSs in corners.  The walls had carpeting on them up to a height of about 6 feet.  The room was an old fashioned show room that was huge, but the listening chairs were about 15 feet from the LSs.  Because the LSs are not as tall as Klipschorns, it may be especially important to listen to them while seated, looking down the throats of the midrange horn and the tweeters, at a point where you can see the bug screen in the tweeter.  

 

I would think that it would be best to start out with the La Scalas  pressed into room corners, , toed in toward the chairs, forming an equilateral triangle with the two tweeters and your head.  Put some absorbers on both side walls, not back where the LSs touch (or almost touch) the walls, but on the walls in the manner Chris A. described in his Corner Horn Imaging Post (read this; it's very informative).   Chris recommended that the absorption should go along the wall for 2 feet or more, starting at a point where a yardstick pressed flat against the front of the top hat (where the midrange and treble horn mouths are) touches the wall, extending for 2 feet along the wall toward the rear of the room.   Chris explained this better.  This is pretty necessary, to avoid reflections that can harm imaging.  When LSs are placed in corners, they behave something like corner horns, IMO.  Be sure you aren't sitting in a null.  I used this set-up with my Klipschorns, and it worked well.

 

 

A conservative take on corner placement is 1) moving a speaker from out in the room back to against a wall gains you 3 dB in the bass (doubles the effective power, like replacing a 100 watt amplifier with a 200 watt amplifier).  Moving the wall-placed speaker into a corner doubles the effective power again, providing an extra 3 dB in the bass, providing 4 times the effective power, or a 6 dB total gain.  As I said, this is conservative; some articles cite even higher bass increases.

 

After trying the LSs pressed back in the corners, try pulling them out a bit, and see what you think.  You can try them in various positions along the wall, but that will probably reduce bass.  Normally, but not always, the speakers sitting out in the room (the audiophile favorite, though probably wrong, position), reduces bass and, potentially, dynamics (i.e., maximum SPL). 

 

Eight Cardinal Points of Reproduction 

by Paul W. Klipsch

 

1.Freedom from distortion. Minimum distortion requires small amplitudes of air mass movements, even at peak transient power output. Bass diaphragm motion should not exceed 1/16 inch. Corner placement reduces distortion three fourths.

 

2.Optimum size of speaker. Large enough to reproduce the lowest audible bass tone at peak transient power output without distortion; not so large as to produce a separation of bass and treble events. Corner placement increases effective size of speaker 4 times.

 

3.Freedom from rattles.

 

4.Freedom from shadows. Obstructions between high frequency speaker and listeners can not be tolerated - treble wave-lengths do not turn corners. 

 

 5.Freedom from cavities. The space under a speaker box formed by mounting it on legs can destroy the bottom octave of response and deteriorate the next 2 octaves.

 

6.Adequate spacing for stereo. In a 14 x 17 foot room, for example, the 17-foot wall is apt to be best for the stereo speaker array.

 

7.Accurate spatial values. Ability to localize the virtual sound sources in their original spatial relationships requires 3 widely spaced speakers, regardless of size or type, retention of this quality over a wide listening area requires toe-in of the flanking speakers.

 

8.Flanking speakers toed-in. Such toe-in is naturally provided by corner speakers. The effect is to reduce shift of the virtual sound source for different listener locations. This is the only way to achieve a wide area for listening.

 

When you have herd the Ls for several months, put the best subwoofer you can afford in a rear corner.  Adjust the crossover to be pretty low (60Hz or 40 Hz providing you have located your LSs in a place with a lot of boundary loading).  Unless you buy or build a good HORN subwoofer, your LSs will have cleaner, tighter, and less distorted bass than the sub.  There are some tall Horn subs available for DIY that extend from floor nearly to ceiling, which I assume will reach deeper than smaller ones (but read the lit).   Your La Scalas will probably be good to below 60 Hz if they are in corners, you are not in a null, and you EQ to taste.  My Belle Klipsch center channel (a design equivalent to a La Scala, but with an inferior midrange horn (which I replaced!) is given boundary gain by being flush mounted in a wall, behind an AT screen, sticking out into a bump-out into the next room, actually has a little peak at 60 Hz, and is good to 40 Hz, with no EQ.  If you have to go with an ordinary subwoofer (non-horn), get the best you can, and if you have boundary gain in the bass (i.e. corner or against a wall) try crossing it over at 60 Hz (or even lower), and see how it sounds.  Or, spring for a calibrated microphone of the $100 variety, and use free REW to see what's what.

[Deano1974]

 
There are two sets of opinion on this, sometimes within the same Klipsch dealership.  I'm on the cleaner, tighter bass side, therefore, I favor La Scalas.  I have heard La Scalas sound glorious, with a startling amount of bass impact, and I've heard them sound harsh. 
 
The worst La Scala sound I heard was from a live (outdoor) punk band c. 1975.  It was as harsh as can be.  The LS cabinets were on pedestals, too far from the bass reinforcing ground plane, with 360 degrees of empty space around them (no boundary gain and no room gain), and the band had cheap AV equipment, with no EQ that I remember (their equipment was accessible, and I would have looked). 
 
The best time was with the LSs in corners.  The walls had carpeting on them up to a height of about 6 feet.  The room was an old fashioned show room that was huge, but the listening chairs were about 15 feet from the LSs.  Because the LSs are not as tall as Klipschorns, it may be especially important to listen to them while seated, looking down the throats of the midrange horn and the tweeters, at a point where you can see the bug screen in the tweeter.  
 
I would think that it would be best to start out with the La Scalas  pressed into room corners, , toed in toward the chairs, forming an equilateral triangle with the two tweeters and your head.  Put some absorbers on both side walls, not back where the LSs touch (or almost touch) the walls, but on the walls in the manner Chris A. described in his Corner Horn Imaging Post (read this; it's very informative).   Chris recommended that the absorption should go along the wall for 2 feet or more, starting at a point where a yardstick pressed flat against the front of the top hat (where the midrange and treble horn mouths are) touches the wall, extending for 2 feet along the wall toward the rear of the room.   Chris explained this better.  This is pretty necessary, to avoid reflections that can harm imaging.  When LSs are placed in corners, they behave something like corner horns, IMO.  Be sure you aren't sitting in a null.  I used this set-up with my Klipschorns, and it worked well.

 
 
A conservative take on corner placement is 1) moving a speaker from out in the room back to against a wall gains you 3 dB in the bass (doubles the effective power, like replacing a 100 watt amplifier with a 200 watt amplifier).  Moving the wall-placed speaker into a corner doubles the effective power again, providing an extra 3 dB in the bass, providing 4 times the effective power, or a 6 dB total gain.  As I said, this is conservative; some articles cite even higher bass increases.
 
After trying the LSs pressed back in the corners, try pulling them out a bit, and see what you think.  You can try them in various positions along the wall, but that will probably reduce bass.  Normally, but not always, the speakers sitting out in the room (the audiophile favorite, though probably wrong, position), reduces bass and, potentially, dynamics (i.e., maximum SPL). 
 

Eight Cardinal Points of Reproduction 

by Paul W. Klipsch

 
1.Freedom from distortion. Minimum distortion requires small amplitudes of air mass movements, even at peak transient power output. Bass diaphragm motion should not exceed 1/16 inch. Corner placement reduces distortion three fourths.
 

2.Optimum size of speaker. Large enough to reproduce the lowest audible bass tone at peak transient power output without distortion; not so large as to produce a separation of bass and treble events. Corner placement increases effective size of speaker 4 times.

 

3.Freedom from rattles.

 

4.Freedom from shadows. Obstructions between high frequency speaker and listeners can not be tolerated - treble wave-lengths do not turn corners. 

 

 5.Freedom from cavities. The space under a speaker box formed by mounting it on legs can destroy the bottom octave of response and deteriorate the next 2 octaves.

 

6.Adequate spacing for stereo. In a 14 x 17 foot room, for example, the 17-foot wall is apt to be best for the stereo speaker array.

 

7.Accurate spatial values. Ability to localize the virtual sound sources in their original spatial relationships requires 3 widely spaced speakers, regardless of size or type, retention of this quality over a wide listening area requires toe-in of the flanking speakers.

 

8.Flanking speakers toed-in. Such toe-in is naturally provided by corner speakers. The effect is to reduce shift of the virtual sound source for different listener locations. This is the only way to achieve a wide area for listening.

 

When you have herd the Ls for several months, put the best subwoofer you can afford in a rear corner.  Adjust the crossover to be pretty low (60Hz or 40 Hz providing you have located your LSs in a place with a lot of boundary loading).  Unless you buy or build a good HORN subwoofer, your LSs will have cleaner, tighter, and less distorted bass than the sub.  There are some tall Horn subs available for DIY that extend from floor nearly to ceiling, which I assume will reach deeper than smaller ones (but read the lit).   Your La Scalas will probably be good to below 60 Hz if they are in corners, you are not in a null, and you EQ to taste.  My Belle Klipsch center channel (a design equivalent to a La Scala, but with an inferior midrange horn (which I replaced!) is given boundary gain by being flush mounted in a wall, behind an AT screen, sticking out into a bump-out into the next room, actually has a little peak at 60 Hz, and is good to 40 Hz, with no EQ.  If you have to go with an ordinary subwoofer (non-horn), get the best you can, and if you have boundary gain in the bass (i.e. corner or against a wall) try crossing it over at 60 Hz (or even lower), and see how it sounds.  Or, spring for a calibrated microphone of the $100 variety, and use free REW to see what's what.

Wow thats huge amount of info! Thank you

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[Deano1974]

38 minutes ago, Dave1290 said:

I'm kinda thinking you're gonna get your butt kicked    Thing is...  ...You'll hear it coming AND going...  😂   I think the general consensus is smiling and waiting for whatever happens.  Take your time and make us all suffer wondering.  Got that playlist in mind yet?  One more thing...  Don't hurt yourself!  😂 😂 😎

 

playlist lol where to begin, ok here are a few in no particular order just off the top of my head

 

Jeff buckley - Hallelujah

Diana Krall - Jimmie

Dire Straits - You & your friend

Patricia Barber - Use me

Christy Moore - So do I

Ray Charles & Natalie cole - Fever

Stevie Ray Vaughan - Tin pan Alley

Pink Floyd - Comfortably numb - live (Delicate sound of  thunder).

Pink Floyd - Welcome to the Machine

Louis Hayes - Ecaroh

 

Just to start lol

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jimjimbo]

19 minutes ago, Deano1974 said:

playlist lol where to begin, ok here are a few in no particular order just off the top of my head

 

Jeff buckley - Hallelujah

Diana Krall - Jimmie

Dire Straits - You & your friend

Patricia Barber - Use me

Christy Moore - So do I

Ray Charles & Natalie cole - Fever

Stevie Ray Vaughan - Tin pan Alley

Pink Floyd - Comfortably numb - live (Delicate sound of  thunder).

Pink Floyd - Welcome to the Machine

Louis Hayes - Ecaroh

 

Just to start lol

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Steely Dan - I've got the news

Dire Straits - Sultans of Swing

Anita Baker - It's been you

[garyrc]

Because you tend to both gain something and lose something whenever going from one well designed speaker to another, the trouble with using only recordings you are quite familiar with is that on first comparison the old components often have an advantage, because they are familiar.

 

IMO the best way to go is to listen to about 5 or 6 new-to-you recordings first, then move to the old stuff

 

Try this, especially Fanfare for the Common Man.  Even the cassette version is good, but Direct to Disk is the best.  I'm looking for it on SACD -- so far, no luck

[Deano1974]

Because you tend to both gain something and lose something whenever going from one well designed speaker to another, the trouble with using only recordings you are quite familiar with is that on first comparison the old components often have an advantage, because they are familiar.
 
IMO the best way to go is to listen to about 5 or 6 new-to-you recordings first, then move to the old stuff
 
Try this, especially Fanfare for the Common Man.

Good point and great advice however many of the tracks i know intimately and have heard them on mamy systems over the years

Also im a big jazz and blues fan and use to visit many many jazz clubs so have a good knowledge of how instruments should sound

I understand what you are saying but from all the advice here that you guys are telling me I should hear more detail on recordings ie space, decay, timbre and imaging which is what i feel the CW IIIs are not so much lacking but could be better

I think if i did a A/B comparison with the speakers side by side then yes I would feel differently or hear differently

But again thank you for the advice it means alot

Deano



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[garyrc]

For Jazz, I find speaker differences in what's there besides castanets at the very beginning of Sketches of Spain.

 

There are some Jazz SACDs -- do you have a way to play them?

[Deano1974]

Yes i have a modwright Oppo 205 [emoji4]

For Jazz, I find speaker differences in what's there besides castanets at the very beginning of Sketches of Spain.
 
There are some Jazz SACDs -- do you have a way to play them?

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[dtel]

Getting close, it's Monday here, not sure about NZ but your almost there. 

[jimjimbo]

4 minutes ago, dtel said:

Getting close, it's Monday here, not sure about NZ but your almost there. 

NZ is 16 hours ahead of our EST.

[dtel]

Just now, jimjimbo said:

NZ is 16 hours ahead of our EST.

OK thanks, was to lazy to look it up. 

 

OK Deano, your closer than I thought to having your new toys.

 

Well like Roy says "tools not toys", I like that so much I put it on a shirt. 

[Deano1974]

11 minutes ago, dtel said:

OK thanks, was to lazy to look it up. 

 

OK Deano, your closer than I thought to having your new toys.

 

Well like Roy says "tools not toys", I like that so much I put it on a shirt. 

Yes just arrived at work 9.15am here and fingers crossed I will get a call to say they will be delivered to my home sometime this afternoon, im soooooo excited 

 

Tools to fix my ears lol

[Shakeydeal]

Good luck deano, I know the wait is killing you. But it will be worth it......😆

 

Shakey

[Dave1290]

MAYBE you'll get that call!!!  lolol  Prolly the first thing on the truck therefore the last thing to come off...  IF you get the call today...  Bwa ha ha!!!  😂😂😎