rplace Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 So I've taken a break due to not having any time. This week I've snuck in some time with my new bass bins for my Oris 2-way horn set up. Since I have new bass bins and I want to know what I am doing not just send files to @Chris A (but I probably will anyway since I don't trust myself) I tried my hand and making PEQ settings on my Xilica via REW. By the way I greatly appreciate all your help Chris!!! I started with nothing. Made Bessel High pass and low pass settings at 175Hz, for no other reason than I had 200-300 in the past and the Oris Horns are supposed to be good down to 150. Next I did single speaker readings at 1 meter for both low and highs. Then I looked at the peaks and valleys, put the cross hairs on one read the value, for example 1,000Hz and boosted it 10db to get it up near the middle of the rest. Did the same in place to bring things down. After about a dozen round of this I had everything (I think) within about +/-6DB. I know there is a way in REW to have it make the PEQ suggestions for you, but I can't seem to get this to work. So this was more of a manual learning process. You ideally want the line flat right? The closer to flat the better? So below I have my first and last pass overlaid with red circles/arrows showing what I was thinking I should do. The last reading is with both the high and lows turned on in the Xilica so one collective pass. Am I thinking about this right even if it is not the most efficient way of doing things? Below the REW readings are my Xilica settings. BTW, how do you set the delay, or how do you measure for it to set it correctly? I have been playing around with it and if you have all channels running while listening to music and you change the delay of one channel you can really mess with your head....pretty cool! I'm always very appreciative of all the help here. Looking for any and all input from the usual suspects @mark1101 @babadono @coytee @marvel @claudeJ1 and anyone else that knows more than me, which is probably everyone. First and last couple of readings showing basically the before and after red circles/arrows what I thought the goal was Last reading high and low combined Xilica High Xilica Low Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted December 28, 2018 Author Share Posted December 28, 2018 What happened to my @s above? @Coytee @Marvel @ClaudeJ1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 They didn't have initial caps for the names. If it doesn't show the profile photo when you finish typing in the account name it won't link. Upper/lower case has to match. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted December 28, 2018 Author Share Posted December 28, 2018 11 minutes ago, Marvel said: They didn't have initial caps for the names. If it doesn't show the profile photo when you finish typing in the account name it won't link. Upper/lower case has to match. Bruce Ha, forum software minimal concern....but thanks. I was so excited I got a reply fast. More waiting on my "real" questions above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 I am waiting on Santa to bring me a Xilica, but I know that will never happen. I'm still trying to understand it all though. I will be trying this with a pc running software to a multi channel out audio interface. I have all the pieces for this other than amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 10 hours ago, Marvel said: They didn't have initial caps for the names. If it doesn't show the profile photo when you finish typing in the account name it won't link. Upper/lower case has to match. All this time I thought it didn't work because the system knew who was with clue.....and who was clueless..... filtering out the latter... (speaking for myself of course, as I think we all know that Marvel and Claude are with clue) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, Coytee said: (speaking for myself of course, as I think we all know that Marvel and Claude are with clue) Even if we're at odds sometime... I'm usually the odd one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted December 28, 2018 Author Share Posted December 28, 2018 Looks like I've hijacked my own thread with my second post. 😐 Task at hand boys, am I heading in the right direction am I thinking about this correctly? At this rate I don't think we will ever answer the delay part of my question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 It (knowledge on how to properly adjust it) is out of my lane. My morning was made just being included in the question! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Night time for me, Richard. Thirteen hrs ahead of you with rain and 75° in Manila. babadono is in Peru... Chris is still your best bet if you are in a hurry, but the holidays are pretty quiet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted December 28, 2018 Author Share Posted December 28, 2018 @Coytee and @Marvel I'm starting to think @Chris A is the ONLY bet not just my best bet. I've got to start making a list of Active/Jube people that are tweakers not just users. Once I get this all figured out on my modest 2-way set up I know I'm going to be calling our Klipsch selling friend to get some Jubes to try. Heck, I should probably just drive out to Indy and grab Colter's. Safe travels to all and Happy New Year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 At the risk of offending Chris by under rating him..... I'd say he's one of the sharper knives in our drawer of life. Me? You nailed it.... I'm just a user. I've not tweaked anything from Roy's settings. Now, "Babadono is in Peru".... does he mean Indiana or visiting Machu Picchu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 16 hours ago, rplace said: What happened to my @s above? @Coytee @Marvel @ClaudeJ1 You have a plus/minus 2 db response as a result, which is very good. What more do you want?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 What Claude really means to say is you have a +1 dA response..... That would mean a dumbazz response by me of course, since I know the least of all mentioned. I know when I ride in the back seat. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted December 29, 2018 Author Share Posted December 29, 2018 6 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said: You have a plus/minus 2 db response as a result, which is very good. What more do you want?? I'm no sure what I want. I'm trying to lean how to fish not be given a meal. My limited understanding is that you need 3dB to hear a difference and you want it as flat as possible. I used the psychoacoustic smoothing because I like the name, no because that is what Chris said he used. If no smoothing it looks like teeth on a saw. At any rate I feel like I flattened out a bit, which I believe is the goal. I do know the drivers are not aligned how to you adjust the delay, with REW and something I don't understand....I'm guessing so? If not do you calculate the difference between driver vertical planes and add/subtract? If so which....add to the back one or subtract from the forward one? I see that when you set milliseconds of delay it calculates to fee/meters. Is that from you or between drives. Changing the delay really changes the sound, but not really better or worse just different. I know random values is not the way to do it. I did this all by looking at the value of the high/low and correcting that at the peak/valley. In the Xilica software it will draw a horizontal line over the PEQ and you can make it wider or shallower. What exactly is that. Should I just keep it as is and move on? Should I try to make it better when I don't even know what better is. I love the ability to change so much, but I'm overwhelmed not really know what is important and what could wait. Ultimately I've got two tube amps SET and Ultra linear/Triode as well as Solid State for HT use. I'd like to have memory set for all 3 and so far I've only messed with the SET amps. Before I do it for everything I'd like to know I am headed in the right direction. What I'd really like to have is a recipe on how to arrive at the correct settings, something like: Set XO points and type Next get PEQs right Then set delay Now House Curve....what ever that is. My preference I think Additionally I'd like to know why I'm doing it and what I am actually doing. Perhaps that is not possible without a career change to speaker building or sound engineering. I'm a pretty quick study if I'm just pointed in the right direction. Thanks and keep the info coming 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HPower Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 All is I know, the first part of you graph looks a little... phallic. 🤔 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted December 29, 2018 Author Share Posted December 29, 2018 32 minutes ago, HPower said: All is I know, the first part of you graph looks a little... phallic. 🤔 Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I didn't draw it, just measured it 😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 1 hour ago, rplace said: Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I didn't draw it, just measured it 😎 A side photo of your speaker would help, so I can say "close but no cigar." LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 What are your bass bins? I'm speaking generally now, but think of how long your bass horn would be if unfolded/straightened out. Where the woofer would be, your mid/tweeter drivers need to be that far back as well. That would be at the crossover freq. if I remeber correctly. So the mid/tweeter needs a delay so that the same freq. at the crossower point will reach your ears at the same time. If not, there is a smearing and phase issue. The exact amount of delay and peq settings are determined with results from sweeps with rew. (If this is correct I am learning) I currently only use a passive crossover but time aligned my tweeter with my mid driver by physically aligning them The tweeter is on a baffle placed at the rear of the cabinets. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted December 29, 2018 Author Share Posted December 29, 2018 New bass bins, thus the new measurements. Then are open baffel H-Frames. I get the alignment with a passive XO and physically lineing them up. The H frames need to be 3' from back wall. That puts my horns in my lap....not really. Measurements above we're wit horns on top of bass bins close to having drivers aligned 1st picture below. Now I'm moving bass bins forward and horns back. 2nd/3rd picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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