michael hurd Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 Last monday, I experienced a bad power sag and then a surge while enjoying some tunes, but so far I am lucky - no fried components yet. However, I realize that paying for protection and a little piece of mind is a must. The power conditioner I am looking at right now is a TRIPP-LITE lcr2400. It is a little expensive, I think , but having voltage correction an diagnostic l.e.d's is very nice. Any comments or other suggestions ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale W Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 I run dual monstercable HT-3500's . There a nice piece and have a volt meter on the front panel as well as a dim feature for the meter. Also has sat protection and i believe some kind of insurance if it fails and damage is caused to your gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandern Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 Right now I am just using a regular surge protection strip. I want to get a power conditioner sometime but funds are short. For now its protected from surges at least. But two good brands that I hear of are Monster and Panamax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 I am using a 3500 as well and am very happy with it. It has cleared up a nice little humm from the cable coming from the wall. When I plug the cable from the wall into the cable box, there is a very loud hum coming from my speakers. When I routed it thru the 3500 and then back to the cable box, it is quiet as a church mouse... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted November 21, 2002 Author Share Posted November 21, 2002 Thanks, guys! I have checked the features of the monster cable ht3500 at their web site. I am still leaning toward the lcr-2400 because of the connected equipment guarantee of the tripp-lite where the monster cable warranty will ( pay fair market value ) or repair of connected equipment -- sounds like my car insurance company ! If a 2000 yugo has lets say, 4500 miles and is in great shape, but your insurance company will want to write it off because it's ( market value ) is next to nothing. Yet, they'll fix my p.o.s '93 caprice. Does this mean they will pay to fix an older adcom amplifier, but throw away a new kenwood ? Aargh !? Seriously, the lcr-2400 will supply stable power from surges as high as 140 volts and sags as low as 87 volts. The monster cable unit does not say at their website. Also, the monster is 399.95 at their website. The tripp-lite is 338.99 at parts express. Any other suggestions ? I just don't want any grief caused by the power sags/surges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 You can get the 3500 on-line for around $275. I bartered with my local Sound Advice and got mine for $299... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erdric Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 I'll preface this by saying that your personal level of paranoia will factor into the decision to spend a little or a lot. I've been doing a fair amount of research on this topic because my area has reasonably poor power and we experience power problems during the summer. There are two ways you can go WRT surge suppression and power conditioning. You can go with either an MOV based system or a series-mode based system. There is a huge difference between the two. MOV is a sacrificial technology. The supressor degrades with each surge. This degradation can happen over years or all at once (catastrophic failure). It will protect your equipment but you'll have to replace it when it fails. There are some pretty good companies that use MOV based systems, the big two that I know of are Panamax and Monster Cable. There's nothing wrong with MOV per se but you should know that if you have really bad power or live in an area with lots of lightning you may end up replacing it over and over. I'm not sure how the warranty is WRT replacement. The other technology is series-mode. There are two important things to know. The first is it will NOT fail. It uses a non-sacrificial system that shunts the power through a series of gates (IIRC) and dissipates the surge slowly. This is not inconsequential and leads me to the second thing to remember. Series-mode does not shunt the surge back into the ground of the outlet in the wall. This avoids creating a condition called Ground Skew. From the Panamax website: ---------------- Q. What is ground skew? A. The following is an excerpt from PC Magazine, September 29, 1992. "Equipment plugged into separate outlets and connected with communications lines faces a threat not encountered by stand alone devices. This threat results from GROUND SKEW - a condition in which points along a building's safety ground develop different electrical potentials. Computer equipment uses ground as a voltage reference for internal circuitry, so if ground potential rises, so do all voltages within the machine. Ground voltage sometimes rises at one machine on a network, but not at another plugged into a different outlet. This ground skew can create a significant difference in potential from one end of the data line to the other. As a result, a powerful current may travel through the data line, damaging equipment at the lower voltage end. Ground skew can come from a lightning hit outside a building or from surge suppressors or other electrical equipment dumping part of a spike's energy to ground. Surge suppressors with the appropriate connections can, however, help prevent the harmful effects that can result from ground skew, because they block the spike on the data line before it hits the equipment." Any electrical equipment that is referencing two different outlets can be effected by "ground skew", such as a stereo system plugged into a MAX® 1000+ on one side of the room and a powered sub-woofer plugged into a MAX® 2 on the other side. This is due to the large difference in electrical potential between the two outlets that can occur as a result of a surge. Please call Panamax customer service to make sure that you are free from the threat of ground skew. ---------------- Ground Skew may or may not be a big deal to you. As I said, level of paranoia is a factor. The big company using Series-mode technology is pricewheeler, otherwise known as Brickwall. The technology is licensed to a couple of companies that I know of, ZeroSurge and Adcom. There are probably more but I'm not aware of them. So, once you decided how paranoid you are about protecting your equipment you'll know what technology to go for. My recommendations: If you go MOV then I'd highly recommend Panamax. They're cheaper than Monster Cable and they have a lot of options. There are also some who believe the Monster Cable reduces the dynamics of sound in your system. Some say that's a lot of crap and swear by MC. Every system is different, not to mention everyones perception of sound. Go to www.discountpanamax.com for lots of info and good prices. If you go with Series-mode then I highly recommend Brickwall. This is what I'm getting. Check them out at www.pricewheeler.com The Adcom unit has a few more features but I've read a fair number of reviews suggesting it negatively affects the sound of your system more than others. My system is going to have the Brickwall at the outlet and a Panamax 5300 downstream to handle sequential power up/down. I'm paranoid I'm not familiar with Tripp-Lite but I've heard some good things about them. Sorry to be long winded. This is all from memory so hopefully I didn't make any mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 From what I've read you may also want to look into PS Audio 's stuff. Talk about pricey!! I'm using a MC HT-5000 and it's been working fine. Again it's just for supression only. Another option would be to use one or two Uninteruptable Power Supply type units. Such as the ones used on computers and such. I have a UPC (Universal Power Conversions) 650-Pro on my PC and it's been working rather well. The down side is that they use lead-acid batteries. In the four years I've had this unit I've had to replace the battery once (under warranty). My biggest fear is when the incoming voltage from the wall becomes so low that even a voltage regulating typr unit can't keep everything turned on. It would be like pulling the power cord out of the wall while playing your favorite CD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erdric Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 Oops, I forgot about PS Audio. Very nice stuff at a big price. The Ultimate Outlet is basically an outlet with a Balun inside. A Balun is PS Audio's solution to a non-MOV system. You can get a 20amp High Current Ultimate Outlet (2 plugs) for $400 and add a Juice Bar (another PS product) for only $200 more. A Juice Bar is nothing more than a fancy power strip. PS Audio...not for the light of wallet. >>My biggest fear is when the incoming voltage from the wall becomes so low that even a voltage regulating typr unit can't keep everything turned on. It would be like pulling the power cord out of the wall while playing your favorite CD<< A number of the new Panamax models come with Surge-Gate circuitry that disconnects the suppressor when there is a long over-voltage or under-voltage. It re-engages the suppressor when the voltage comes back within safe operating range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klipschfanatic Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 Just got a PS Audio Power Plant 300 two weeks ago. It has by far caused the most PROFOUND difference in sound coming from Cornwalls that I have ever heard. Was using a MC HT-3500. If you are interested-will sell the 3500 for $150.00 plus shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erdric Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 Klipschfanatic, Where do you have the Power Plant in your room? My understanding is that the Plant puts off a lot of heat. Is that true? I'd love to get one of those but I just don't think I could convince myself I need one at that cost. Congrats, I've heard nothing but great things about the Plant. My post above wasn't anti-PS Audio, BTW. Great products but pretty expensive, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 I just ordered the 20 amp version Power Director 4.7 yesterday from PS Audio. It was hard to lay out that kind of money for such a devise. But, they guarantee that you will hear and see more then a slight improvement. You have 30 days to try it out and get a full refund. I won't receive it for a month yet, they just started production on the 20 amp version. Check out their web site. They offer you a lot of information and also have a forum. I've been in contact with them for a year now trying to make up my mind on if I should buy their product or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klipschfanatic Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 erdric, Power Plant is on top of a piece of granite beside my rack. Mine does not get hot. Only using 10 watts-50 watts when playing loud. Sure it depends on what is plugged into it. Check out PS Audio's web site. Am using all four outlets. Edge M4 amp 70wpc Edge Si1 preamp Monolithic Sound power supply-it powers Perpetual Technologies P1A & P3a Marantz CD for a transport. Cornwall II's msrp-$1245.00-you can find it for $850.00 shipped.Still not cheap-but worth every penny. If you ever get a chance to demo one don't pass it up. Will save a lot of time & money spent on the amp & preamp shuffle. I've had Klipsch speakers for over twenty years. Never had the level of performance as I have now with the PS Audio Power Plant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 Fanatic, You have been a poster for 2 years and only 6 posts? Perhaps you have more knowledge to share. Anybody try the AC filters from virmode.com? I sent away for their info package seems like a small company of audio fanatics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 My Panamax device sacrificed itself in saving damage to my equipment during a double power failure/resulting surge. Best $200 I've ever spent. I was at home sitting 8' away from my equipment when it happened. I know the Panamax brand works and I recommend it highly. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted November 23, 2002 Author Share Posted November 23, 2002 MOV's are not really appealing to me -- however I was looking at u.p.s. systems at the local future shop -- intriguing... So the batteries don't last that long ? A lead acid battery should last for an average of 5-6 years in the climate I live in -- don't know about down there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erdric Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 Michael, If you go the UPS route be sure to do a little research online concerning affect on sound. I've read so-so reviews about UPS in audio systems. I'm not trying to discourage you from using one, just make sure you know what to expect. I'm glad you're looking at non-MOV systems, BTW. It's the best way to go IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted November 23, 2002 Author Share Posted November 23, 2002 Thanks guys, I will check out ps audio, and read about ups supplies, but I have determined that metal oxide varistor - type suppresion is not ther route I want to take, so more research is in order -- any contractors/electricians on this forum ? I am just wondering what hospitals use to make sure that sensitive and very expensive devices such as heart monitors, dialysis machines, etc are not damaged ? Any ideas, sites ?? Medical supply companies ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 Talktokeith, you spent $200 on your surge protector...it worked once...but now you have to buy another one..... series mode protection is the only way to go...brickwall is one brand...another one not mentioned yet is Surge-X www.surgex.com The stand-alone protectors start at about $250 retail....buy it once and never have to buy it again!!!! I have the SX1115RT in my rack. It protects my audio system and computer. One of my best investments in my rack! Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 Russ, thanks for your advice, but you're incorrect. Panamax repaired the 8+ year old piece for $35, so I didn't have to buy another one. I'm glad you're happy with whatever it is you have. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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